This school is on the decline

Colleges & Universities A-Z The University of Texas at Austin
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<p>perazziman</p>

<p>I asked about finalists, not semifanalists.</p>

<p>Do semifinalists get any NM scholarships? Because I was under impression that parents were not happy that UT cancelled NMF scholarship program, semifinalists were never mentioned. And nobody ever provided number of semifinalists at UT (there were 57 finalists mentioned).</p>

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<p>And by the way, can anyone here provide any proof that UT students with lowest SAT scores are really from low performing schools, and not football players or some other sport players?</p>

<p>Our high school had football players accepted to Ivies, and their SAT scores were very low even for UT, they were amazingly low for any Ivy.</p>

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<p>Becoming a finalist does not require a higher PSAT score. Usually semifinalists become finalists as long as they </p>

<ol>
<li>Apply to continue in contest after they are declared semifinalist (requires a short essay & filling out an application.)</li>
<li>Principal / counselor do not suggest there were discipline problems.</li>
<li>Student does not have more than a couple of Cs on the transcript.</li>
<li>Student is a US citizen.</li>
</ol>

<p>90% of semifinalists do become finalists.So NMSC just releases the numbers on NMSFs on a state by state basis.</p>

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<p>We can all see that over 40% of students who were admitted under the “top 9%” scored below 1800 on the SAT: </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/EnrolledFreshmenProfile-2012.pdf[/url]”>http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/EnrolledFreshmenProfile-2012.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>So, I doubt these 40% were graduates of highly competitive high schools.</p>

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<p>In addition, kids who get in under holistic review have higher average SAT scores than kids who get in under the top 9% rule. So holistic review does not diminish the SAT score averages at UT, it improves it.</p>

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<p>I finally read the wikipedia article about National Merit Scholarship program. The award is very confusing. A lot of “confidential” information, looks almost like some kind of “conspiracy” :smiley:

Just simple math.
<a href=“http://www.nationalmerit.org/annual_report.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nationalmerit.org/annual_report.pdf&lt;/a&gt;

35.1 million / 8,064 = about $ 4,353 average scholarship<br>
I would not be surprised to learn that NMSC provides only 6,250,000 to pay the 2,500 National Merit $2,500 Scholarships, and the rest comes from sponsors, including those “ awards for children of the sponsor’s employees, for Finalists living in a particular geographic area, or for Finalists who have career plans the sponsor wishes to encourage”
$ 4,000 doesn’t look very impressive. It could be impressive in 1955, when the program began, and it probably covered the whole COA in any private college. But the year is 2013, and 4,000 looks more like a joke</p>

<p>Out of list of semifinalists from the document above (page 7)
Total PSAT entrants 1,501,806 ; Texas entrants 198,169, approximately 13%
Total semifinalists 16,178 ; Texas semifinalists 1,237, approximately 7.5%
7.5 (7.65)% out of total US 8,064 Merit Scholars will give Texas about 605-615 scholars.
UT has 57 (what’s wrong with that?), and UT doesn’t provide any special “college-sponsored Merit Scholarship awards for Finalists who plan to attend a sponsor college.”</p>

<p>I actually see reason why they do it.

  1. A lot of kids do much better on ACT that SAT (my daughter included), why should these kids be treated differently?
  2. A lot of high achieving students with financial need will get MUCH MORE money from different sources ( the valedictorian from my D’d HS class was from a trailer park ;), NM something, got accepted to several Ivies and UT Austin as safety, everywhere with need based full ride, UT actually gave the best financial package, no mandatory self -help/summer earnings, no loans. The kid went to Ivy to study something Social Studies related)
  3. A lot of high achieving students without financial need apply and get accepted to Honors programs where UT students actually get most of scholarships (and usually more than $4000).</p>

<p>HOW IS UT AUSTIN ON THE DECLINE FOR CANCELLING “COLLEGE SPONSORED AWARDS”? I just don’t get it.</p>

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<p>And what’s wrong with that, if</p>

<p>UT scores SAT (out of 2400): 1837, ACT Composite: 28</p>

<p>State of Texas scores (latest available) SAT 1437 (477, 499, 461) ACT Composite 20.8 ?</p>

<p>College education in this country is not free, and thus it is available to everyone, not only less than top 1% of students with high PSAT scores.
Some other countries provide FREE college education based on certain tests scores. Do you want to move?</p>

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<p>I didn’t say they were on a decline, so you will have to ask someone else about that. </p>

<p>I was simply pointing out that A&M’s average SAT score (1220) has been rising faster at A&M. To the point where the difference is statistically the difference is insignificant. I was simply speculating why this might be happening, as it seems counter-intuitive that class rank cut off is rising at UT (not A&M) but the SAT score seems to be rising at A&M. </p>

<p>So, I was speculating that it may have something to do with the fact that A&M attracts a lot of high PSAT scoring kids (NMFs) by offering them huge scholarships. In addition, A&M might be attracting a lot of the 7.1% to 10% kids who do not get auto admit that do not get into UT. Also, A&M might be attracting a lot of the 10%-25% kids with high SAT scores from competitive high schools that are also auto admits at A&M. </p>

<p>In contrast I was speculating that UT’s SAT might not be rising as much because it might be having a hard time attracting top students from top high schools as the cut off is rising. In other words, since almost 80% of the top 1.5% at competitive high schools go to elite privates, UT has to draw kids from a shrinking universe, who are below 1.5% but not below 7%. However, class rank cut off continues to rise as more and more low SAT score students from average high schools with high class ranks attend UT.</p>

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<p>I think UT has been slipping for some time. The state continues to cut funding, and the school is too large. That said you can get a great education there (or a very poor one). That is the problem with 52,000 students - it is almost impossible to have any real quality control. UT’s rankings have always been propped up by its research dollars and peer reviews, but the average undergrad does not benefit from the research or elite grad school professors. The one great advantage UT has going for it is Austin.</p>

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<p>That’s why UT has honors programs.</p>

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<p>Are you saying that A&M’s SAT score is now comparable to UT’s because of UT’s honor programs? Or are you saying that A&M is bigger and growing faster than UT because of UT’s honor programs? I don’t get it. What is the connection?</p>

<p>I can see that counter intuitively, the class rank cut off is higher at UT and the Admission rate is better at UT, but the SAT scores are not. So why do you think this is the case?</p>

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<p>My post was not related to the main topic (;UT’s decline). I just wanted to mention about making great education in a big school with 52,000 students. (This may not be limited to UT.) By the way, I lost an interest in this thread and so please do not ask me question.</p>

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<p>I was just responding to your question about whether athletes (who get in thru the review process) were responsible for bringing down the SAT scores at UT. I was pointing out that UT’s low SAT scores were not the result of the review process, they are the result of the top 7% admits at UT, 40% of whom score below 1800. </p>

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<p>Nothing is wrong with that, it is about the same as A&Ms. I have all along been saying it does not make much difference which school one attends. I am saying I find it strange how the two schools have similar SAT scores but different class rank and acceptance rate profiles. UT perhaps attracts more of the higher class rank/ lower SAT score students. In contrast, A&M seems to attract the slightly lower class rank / higher SAT score student. However, in balance they are both equally good schools. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that.</p>

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<p>Hmmm… I’m confused as to the higher SAT students going to A&M instead of UT. </p>

<p>UT 75% SAT 2060
A&M 75% SAT 1930</p>

<p>UT is approximately 7% higher. It just doesn’t match what you speculate.</p>

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<p>kldat1, You are perhaps using dated numbers. This year A&M has become bigger and faster growing than UT. It also has the same SAT (Math+CR) scores as UT: </p>

<p>[Side</a> by side comparison of Texas A & M University vs The University of Texas at Austin - StudentAdvisor](<a href=“http://www.studentadvisor.com/compare/texas-a-m-university-vs-the-university-of-texas-at-austin]Side”>http://www.studentadvisor.com/compare/texas-a-m-university-vs-the-university-of-texas-at-austin)</p>

<p>So, I was wondering and speculating about why this was happening, when counter-intuitively, the auto admit cut off rank at UT has been improving over the last four or five years and A&M’s is still at 10%. Also UT’s admit rate is a lot higher than A&M but still the SAT scores are rising faster at A&M than UT.</p>

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<p>Once again, I do not think that a 30 point difference per section is statistically significant.</p>

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<p>I’m using the number provided by each college in their common data set. Not some one-off website.</p>

<p>

You’re kidding right?</p>

<p>Again from the data provided from each school.
UT admissions rate 47%
A&M admission rate 67%</p>

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<p>I am going to be very rude, but this comparison of UT and A&M became really annoying even for me, and I personally don’t give a fig to any rivalries between any universities.</p>

<p>perazziman
are you trying to prove yourself that your child went to a better university with bigger prestige and value?
Is it the reason why you are garble?
I checked your link.
The OBVIOUS reason why “this year A&M has become bigger and faster growing than UT” is called TUITION: $5,297 vs $9,418 ( $19,727 vs $31,218 )</p>

<p>We live in a “typical” Texas area more like Cy Fair ISD that you despised so much, with very diverse population, and a bunch of free/reduce meal kids. The ratio of UT/ A&M students from our high school is about 1/ 7-10. The only students from our area who go to UT are those from very upper middle class families who can afford $27,000 without much trouble, or kids on scholarships (my daughter has 4 from UT and different foundations). The majority of population in our area just loves A&M because it’s much more affordable.</p>

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<p>To have a higher class rank means lower percentage. Try applying the same idea to what I am saying. Otherwise it would not be counter-intuitive would it? I am consistently pointing out that UT has a better admit rate and auto admit cut off, but its SAT scores are not improving as fast as A&Ms.</p>

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<p>Can you please show me where I said that A&M was a better university and had more prestige than UT? I get the feeling you are annoyed because I am saying they are equally good.</p>