Does anyone know how many IVY UG go to their med schools - Like Columbia UG to Columbia med school or Harvard or UPENN.
I talked to a parent yesterday and their D did UG at UPENN and is now med school at UPENN ( they declined UMich med school and indicated Umich gave close to full ride- not 100% clear though).
If IVY UG go to their med schools, why bother about BSMD? They tried to convince me to take Columbia over all ( SBU med and other BSMD, JHU BME full ride etc.).
It is also possible that they are biased and awed with IVYs ( like most HS senior) unlike me. The dad is liver/kidney surgeon and offered balance view and had some good points on saving $400K or so at SBU med compared to Columbia route - Not sure you can leverage with Columbia though. Mom was determined for IVY. Seems they talked to D also and their D also seem to indicate Columbia prefence over SBU BSMD.
Some rankings are skewed and Columbia and UPenn are top medical schools
Although chances increase I do not think you can be 100 percent sure you can get in Harvard or Columbia med school if you do undergrad there. I would say T20 schcols are reachable if you do undergrad there
One reason to strongly encourage considering a UG like Stanford over BSMD (as an example) is the college experience and opportunities Stanford unlocks. While Augusta, PSU and BU do not compare to Ivies or Stanford in UG experience or potential, and all provide BSMD path in this case, they still provide varying experiences and unlock different potential to student, and some will be ranked lower by student vs others. Please factor that in, along with costs and UG+medical school rankings/facilities.
@rk1235rk : Another factor that could (should?) be considered is the cohort DC will learn and train with. For e.g., some schools provide a vibrant rural community, while some provide opportunity to live and learn in the bustle of city. Some schools have most students staying in dorms first year (sometimes all years) and thus have strong community, whereas in some, many students live with their families at home nearby and you feel like you are in a Community College. Funding determines depth and strength of research opportunities available. Location determines volunteering and shadowing options. All of these are important for choosing between BSMD, not just for UG vs BSMD path. Just by getting BSMD, one has not landed - they begin. Please make choices after factoring in the quality of the rest of the journey.
My sonās college search ended with all schools that he applied for announcing their decisions. He got into 4 instate schools in Florida (including UCF BMS program) and couldnāt get into any of the other BSMD programs or Tier 2 schools that he applied for (traditional programs)
It was an interesting journey and he was a little disappointed with the rejections but happy to get into UCF Burnett scholars program. This is an informative group regarding BSMD programs and helpful for students & parents. Good luck to all the Prospective students and parents!
Hearty congratulations to your son!! This year application cycle has been brutal overall. Several of my friends in one of the prominent public school districts in Silicon Valley are entirely disappointed and unhappy with how UC decisions turned out this year, with some good students not getting into any UCs, and being rejected from most schools they applied to outside of UCs.
Congrats to your son on having admissions he is happy with!!
There is lot of inbreeding between Ivy leagues for admissions. Even though they saw UG prestige has low importance in admission decisions, every school like to show how many they got from Ivies including UMichigan. I doubt you can leverage with Columbia for UG. Now a days medical schools are competing and matching other schools.
@compengineer1 - i definitely would not think that one can be 100% sure of getting in to the undergraduateās medical school just because one is at the undergraduate, even if itās an IVY league UG. even less than 100%, i wouldnāt assume itās a near certainty or good probability either. obviously, this depends on the individual student. however, i do think one does have an advantage over those not from the UG. the question is however, how significant an advantage. the ~40% acceptance rate via traditional route includes all seniors applying as well as those who have taken gap years as well. individual medical school acceptance rates are in the single digit %, with the top medical schools in the low single digit %. as many have stated here before several times (and i wonāt repeat in detail), itās a matter of risk tolerance, how comfortable does one feel betting on oneself, of continuing the EC, leadership activities, research, volunteer work, and academic excellence, and going through another application cycle 3-5 years later vs a more straightforward or simpler BS.MD path. there is no one right answer applicable to everyone as there are many variables (e.g. risk tolerance, financial, attraction to prestige, etc.). it is certainly possible to obtain a T20 medical school via traditional route from any school (large fish little pond vs small fish large pond debate) but by the same token, thereās no guarantee one gets a medical school acceptance after four years either, let along a T20 medical school. in my personal and family experience, iāve seen the different pathways - traditional route after 4 years (myself, multiple cousins), BSMD route (my wife), taken GAP years (sis-in-law, cousins), via Caribbean MS (sis-in-law), foreign medical school (in-laws), as well as those not being successful (unable to get accepted into US med school and/or residency from foreign medical school). two of those who were forced to take a GAP year were IVY graduates. those who went via the traditional route to med school right after college graduation were not from IVY colleges. thus, there are many ways to be successful. i wouldnāt view it as āif i pick the wrong choiceā¦ā a student may be successful in either option. as someone above stated, itās just the beginning of oneās path. both paths can certainly lead to the same destination (success). the most stressful part may be simply making that first step, that decision by you and your D. best of luck. but from what iāve read here on your Dās accomplishments/acceptances, i am confident that your D will be successful either way.
Looks like you have all permutations and combinations covered and summarized well. I also have seen most of the scenarios. Within my family 5 out of 6 kids (youngest one chose BSMD) went thru traditional path, one (DS) succeeded with traditional path with no gap years, 3 with gap years and one chose non-US school, but that means nothing (each has different reasons). I agree 100% it all comes down to individual student and the percentages, yield rates etc. needs to be used to understand the process but not as prime factor. I know few folks here use the numbers to scare newbies.
The bottomline is why let IVY or Stanford or Caltech go for BSMD ( including the best) IF IVY ( like Columbia or Harvard or Yale etc.) education is unparalleled (assuming UG at the best BSMD is also avg. compared to IVY). You do UG once only in life time.
If JHU BME gives a full ride ( and many other top school), it is not that D is brilliant but they have an idea that without money she is not coming( and true as well since JHU would be tossed out immediately) and she goes to IVY.
So seems IVYs/MIT/Stanford/Caltech etc. Rock!!
Hence thus the debate remains is - Is IVY education extraordinary? Obama got the rewards- do most get it?? Is it worth it?
As we discussed before not every major at every Ivy league gives extraordinary education and even if they give will every student grab that opportunity? However everything is about branding in this country so Ivy branding does help with securing next opportunity (provided one gets the above average stats). One caveat is Ivy brand doesnāt get additional income for MDs.
You are too dismissive of JHU BME and stuck with CalTech. Did you go to IIT by any chance?
Itās a solid program, but if you want to try for top programs either for prestige or cost, you should give it a shot. However it needs planning from day one and you need to spend more time on ECs and MCAT prep instead of cruising thru. One thing you can do differently from traditional path students is instead of applying to 20+ programs, you can either apply to around 10 top schools or decide not to apply at all.
This is true, competition is increasing with more and more taking gap years. However all 3 candidates I know this year (DS, one Stanford girl and another Vandy girl) got 1 or more Ivy admissions without gap years.
Thatās probably true. I checked few UPenn matriculants this week and they all have gap years. However, not everyone is forced to take gap years. Lot of the are doing it to gain additional experiences since lot of them are thinking about dual careers. Two kids I know deferred admissions by one year 4 years back to get industry experience (one worked for Google health and another for some other company) and they will be shown as gap years. Others get prestigious opportunities like Fullbright.
