What are all of your thoughts on using AP Credits to fulfill some of the required classes in a BS/MD, such as calc?
@rk2017 link is imgur . com/a/ Ma9YaFv
my 2 cents - Most of the top medical schools - Harvard, Stanford, UCSF etc are not available in BSMD. In fact top BSMD schools like NU, Pitts, BU are not even in top 20 medical schools. So students who want to take their shot at going to top medical schools (which are highly needed for top academic or research careers) will take their chance and go to traditional route even if they have perfect credentials for BSMD.
Now same students after going through pre-med, if they have 3.9+ and 520+ then they will try for top 20 medical schools. However if they are average like 3.7 and 512+ then they will try for middle tier schools like BU, Pitts, Penn State, VCU etcâŠ
For traditional pathway, it is very important that you choose schools in your scores/gpa range as schools do not want to be considered them selves as Safety and will not be excited to cater to out of range super candidates. Like 520+ 3.9+ candidate trying for FSU (low tier) may not even get an interview as FSU does not consider him/her as serious candidate and not want to waste efforts to interview etc. So super candidates focus on top schools only. Same for middle tier.
However for low tier candidates, it is all about trying everywhere and see whether some one gives them interview by even a chance. So they try for low tier and also try for middle tier schools like BU, Pitts, Penn State in case they get lucky. It is like you want to buy more lotter tickets (do more apps) so that your chance go up some what.
@PPofEngrDr Just being curious, I put some data into WARS spreadsheet tool to see the output. I got ARS score of 85
ARS score 85+ is the top S level.
------------ Data Input --------------------------
MCAT ( 515-517) and GPA 3.85+ translates into Stats = 8
Research Experience Level 4 ( 2 years sustained Research with Poster Presentation)
Clinical Experiences - Level 3 ( 1 year or more)
Shadowing Adequate ( 100 hours )
Volunteering Level 2 ( Some Volunteering 100- 200 hrs )
Leadership & Teaching Level 3 ( Significant Leadership and TA )
Miscellaneous Level 2 ( Moderate amount of Personal Activities like dance, musical etc)
UG Level 1 ( All others - Not Highly Ranked )
URM - Level 1 ( Non URM)
GPA Uptrend Level 2 ( Uptrend )
-------------- Output ---------------------
This sums to 85 with the formula specified.
This is a likely profile of succesful BSMD student in UG.
These students should apply mostly to Category 1-3 schools which does not include low yielding schools like BU, Drexel, Temple, GWU, Brown, Thomas Jefferson, Georgetown, AMC etc
It seems most successful BSMD candidates can do much better if they pursued regular route, They do not have to settle for low yielding schools. The tendency to avoid taking risk in regular route is evident here.
This is exactly what is going on. Kids who really want to assure their spot in medical school are avoiding the risk.
You are assuming that the kids who are accepted to BSMD will automatically get 515-517 MCAT and 3.85 GPA. That is simply not a good assumption.
If a student really wants academic medicine, then BSMD is not a great plan. However, if a student wants to practice clinical medicine, there is very little downside. As other have stated, the âlower tierâ medical schools have match statistics that are not that different from the higher tier schools.
Also while all doctors get paid same (Harvard or Howard) that is only relevant if money is your main objective and you want to become doctor asap (without gap years and in six or seven years etc).
In population other than Asian ORM - focus on money is not so intense and time spent is enjoyed - enjoying journey as well as enjoying destination. Career interest are more driving factor and money is secondary objective in many cases. So for those candidates, BSMD does not offer any attractive options (in fact they take away options to become best of best).
Overall BSMD vs Traditional is like a silver/bronze bird in hand is better than a diamond/golden bird in bushâŠ
I think this is true. Many people would take the silver over the chance of nothing. With regard to career interest, Iâm not sure how going to a lower vs. higher ranked med school will change your career path unless what you wanted was academic medicine.
Congrats @bsmdbamd and @whitecane !!
@grtd2010 thanks for articulating the point and its confusing when one says quality of school that drives drastically different set of caliber students, My point is not what is right or wrong, not suggesting BS/MD vs UG path is right or wrong, but when you see this kind of contradicting trends it feels like an illusive med schools world.
tbh, being a UG student parent, recently started lurking on that site and trying to understand more and more what is happening and that is how I tumble upon this 2 different trends. Another surprise is State schools and those are considered Category 5, just one notch above Low Yield schools, except few UCs, UMich.
Happy to introduce myself as an exception ORM.
Folks
Doing BS/MD or traditional route is purely personal choice.
I disagree with @seemasp. NU, UPitt, Brown, Baylor are top-tier medical schools by most metrics one can use.
Plus the numbers are bound to small as number of BS/MD seats is <3% of total medical seats.
Also, many top students do NOT want a career in medicine. They are attracted by computer science or business or law. I know many kids who are already experimenting with start-ups while in high-school.
Plus, many folks are not aware of BS/MD programs. In my own school, the counselors themselves are ignorant about these programs - let alone helping kids with guidance.
So, you will not find many examples.
Even for folks who want to do medicine, the lure of Harvard and Stanford is there.
Disclaimer: I donât belong to UMKC or have any affiliation or have any advantage in promoting UMKC. i think people should do research on their own before deciding whether to attend UMKC or not.
I know there are some negative reviews about UMKC in this group but i want to contribute with the facts what i have known personally about UMKC 6 year program. I talked personally with several UMKC students, two of them in very detail one currently in 4th year and one in 2nd year, they are daughters of my friends. I talked briefly with two people who have completed at UMKC 6 yr BS/MD program and one is a Nephrologist and the other one is Interventional Radiologist now. I have done this research for my daughter who was considering BS/MD programs this year. My anaysis is below:
This program is as stressful as any other BS/MD program, matter of fact the culture in this college is very collaborative between students rather than fighting against each other for grades, the GPA that they need to maintain is very low and no MCAT requirement. Also, as we all know most of the successful doctors in this country are from India and they completed Medical School in less than 5 years after high school. You can transfer lot of AP credits to make your first two years lot easier. Several of the courses in undergrad which are not at all relevant to Medicine are not required in this program. The clinical experience what students get in this program is for 6 years as it starts in the first year itself which is invaluable compared to any other program. Regarding students not having summers, several BS/MD programs (for example: Drexel) have only summer during the first year and no summer after that, matter of fact most of these students either traditional or BS/MD route who wants to do medicine always keep themselves busy with some work related to medicine either shadowing or research, etc. they do not take summers off. The UMKC students get about 3 weeks off during the first two years after that they are like any other medical school. Another advantage i saw is these students complete 2 yrs before the other students in their batch in high school and will have time to finish their specialty before 30 and have a normal life of getting married, etc. Lastly, unless the kids really want to get into research this program is no less than other BS/MD programs in my opinion. I didnât have super positive opinion initially before attending UMKC duirng college visits and before talking to actual students but changed my opinion afterwards. Hope this helps in your decisions.
UMKC results are outâŠ
@2019NewB Some may want to have normal UG experience of four years rather than stress associated with 6 yr BSMD. What is the hurry ? Some of these may find their life partners during UG and medical school. So marriage should not be one of the criteria for selection.
@grtd2010
Agree marriage is not the criteria, i was just using that as an example, 6 yrs of college will definitely give you the college life and experience. The students in this program are very close to each other and the upper class men help out as well.
Even though I belong to ORM and exception from your characterization, I wouldnât compartmentalize to anything that may even sound boarder line discrimination. Happy to discuss controversial matters on healthcare that can exchange knowledge among all involved.
We are bypassing UMKC also as my son got instate in IL, UIC-GPPA which is more highly ranked and 7yrs. It will be cheaper at UIC-GPPA too compared to UMKC.
Put it this way- most first generation immigrants, regardless of skin color will have a big focus on money in their family.
Why? Because they probably grew up in a much worse situation then they are currently- theyâve had to work hard their whole life just to be able to afford the opportunity to get a US visa and plane ticket. They teach their kids never to take anything for granted, least of all money.
Such traits get passed down to their kids which is why the kids of first generation immigrants tend to work extremely hard and pursue success through elite college admissions (like BSMDS).
My parents are first generation immigrants. They grew up in decent conditions but they worked extremely hard to get to where they are now. While we are pretty well off, my parents are extremely careful with money and never spoiled me or my sister. I have the same view and my attitude towards becoming a physician is that I should get into whatever field I want and be happy practicing in whatever speciality I choose (not ruling out primary care either). Plainly put, my parents want me to be happy. They know that if I can achieve my goal of practicing medicine, then I will be making enough money to live a comfortable and happy life.
Thank you all for your wishes.