@PPofEngrDr - I am also Asian ORM and my intention behind comment was not to generalize Asians in any derogatory way, however it is just an observation that generally we are much more focused on money and are also more risk averse compared to general population.
Avoiding risk while useful in preventing bad outcomes also at times limits ones growth. Generally Americans take more risk in their life and per my belief as a result, America is more successful as a country as well (I acknowledge that there are many other factors for success but taking risk in one of the main ones for success). If Bill Gates or Mark Zukerberg was born as Asian then I am sure that his parents wonāt allow him to take a drop from Harvard and focus on uncertain (at the time of drop) business and he may be working on a normal high end job.
Regarding choosing BSMD over traditional path - you have to know your child, know their capability, know their tolerance for risk and desire to become best of best. If my child was A+ student (defined by me as spending two-three weeks in SAT/ACT prep and get 35+ ACT / 1550+ SAT in one shot along with top 2% performance in high school and open to setbacks, then I would encourage traditional pathway and try to become best. However if he/she is just an A- student (spend 3+ months in test prep, gives test 3-4 times to get 34+ACT or SAT equivalent and would be content with being just an physician then I would go BSMD.
@NoviceDad - There is a difference between being top tier and being the best.
NU, UPitt, Brown, Baylor might be top-tier (in top one third) medical schools but if you take any medical school ranking, most of them are not in top 20 schools. When the desire is to go for the best, these schools do not satisfy such desire.
@seemasp
I agree to disagree with you on the rankings.
Re: ORM not being risk-takers than other Americans: That is a PURE myth.
By definition every immigrant is a risk taker.
Secondly, over 1/3 rd of all startups have an ORM co-founder.
Not to mention the numbers of VCs founded by ORMs that fund these startups.
Also, risk taking from a position of privilege is very different than risk taking in a resource constrained environment.
Another stat: 40% of Americans CANNOT afford an unplanned $400 expense in a month. Any thoughts on those folks and risk taking?
The perception of Americans being risk taker was developed during the early parts of globalization when US was the only major player. We are struggling with competitiveness now when the world has caught up.
Thatās the problem with generalizations when it is not backed by data.
You are taking about perceptions and in the same manner basing your perception of the ābestā schools on rankings which gives 50% weightage to perceptions aka reputation.
@seemasp Iām curious about what outcome you think a child will obtain from skipping the BSMD route to become the ābest of the best.ā What does that mean to you? Does that simply mean a doctor who graduated from Harvard? Or do you think that the Harvard graduate will be a better OB/GYN over the years or have a more successful practice?
The point about risk taking is that you need to know what you are giving up to make the trade. Obviously, if someoneās dream is academic medicine, then you are giving up a great deal to take the BSMD route. Clearly, not everyone has academic medicine as a goal.
But for people who truly want to practice clinical medicine, what do you imagine they are giving up in the long run?
@seemasp
A high school kid considers BS/MD program because in high school he/she is 100% (or more) sure that medicine is the career for them. There is no doubt that this program alleviates many uncertainties and efforts which are there when trying to get into a med school through traditional route but that cannot be associated with risk taking. I am not a medical professional but one thing I found out after visiting med schools during interview process is that all of them would make you work hard and would shape you into an excellent physician. 4 years of med school is not the destination but the start of ones medical career.
Everyone in American has immigrant roots, whether 1st or 15th. As a parent I teach my kids value of tangible items vs value of humanity.
BTW, if you make ~33K a year you are in top 1% earner of the world, question is do we feel that way?
Revisit similar topic discussed last year as well http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/21254614#Comment_21254614.
Just to put in perspective what is a good deed? Feed hunger, help out poor? But if one motive is to get prestige in society, get a board membership or people can vote for them, then it is nothing more than a social service, certainly not a good deed. Should they stop doing that? ofc not, but if it is being done for own benefits, then that doesnāt count as good deed. In other words only unselfish work (hard to do whether you are wealthy or not) count as good deed.
@NoviceDad - We have to agree to disagree and that is ok as everyone has their own perspective.
@bsmdseeker2019 - if objective to just to become clinical physician then sure BSMD is perfect. Even BSDO would be good provided specialties you are seeking are not top rated.
@gallentjill - By going not for BSMD, you take the risk but in turn get chance to prove yourself and becoming best doctor, researcher, academic etc. In long term degree from prestigious institute matter somewhat due to connections, alumni support and the fact that it acts as tiebreaker in many situations (Out of 2 similar candidates, you pick one from Harvard over from Howard). It is just my observation that the top positions in any field is disproportionally filled with persons having degree from top institutes and it is certainly not a fluke.
In my opinion, Harvard graduate would have easier time (compared to low tier) getting hired in top hospitals, obtaining leadership positions, participating in top rated research and startups, doing consulting roles, acting as board members in healthcare industry etc.
If the objective it is just private practice then it does not matter as everybody gets paid same and then BSMD should be the goal.
However persons change, their view point, desires and objectives also change over time. Person who is sure about doing clinical work today may start preferring other type of work once exposed to it. Top Tier degree would leave those doors little more open in my view point.
At the same time, your child has to be competitive enough to compete at that level. Otherwise as it is mentioned before in this thread that you become below average participant at top college, get lousy gpa and may have to give up becoming doctor all togetherā¦
@seemasp I think you have laid out the options very well. I disagree with you that the person coming from Harvard will necessarily be the ābest doctor.ā But I do agree with the rest. The only thing I will add is that there are many ways for someone who feels that their med school didnāt equip them well for a career change to make that decision later. For example a person who decides later in their career that they really want research can go do a research oriented fellowship, or even a MS or Phd later on if necessary.
Iām only saying that there are many ways in for people who start with one goal in mind and later on decide on a different path. Starting at Harvard is not the only way to keep those doors open.
Its an outlier cases, how many MIT dropouts become like Mark Z? Disagree with that Asian part, in fact Asians are known for risk taking, business intellectual in world as well as sacrifices as a family. How many immigrant parents or students on this forum are lone ranger to their parents? plenty, there is inherent risk in it when they migrated being a lone ranger. For any immigrant 2 biggest risks are Social and Economic.
it is very subjective definition of A+ and A-. If same A- student doing lots of other activities, e.g. putting own time and efforts in unselfish work or at least social/humanitarian work, then that student is better than A+.
Risk appetite is also subjective, a valid risk for a student/family may be invalid for another student/family based on personal circumstances even though both students are rated same from whatever academia, admission process you are comfortable with.
@gallentjill - I am not implying that Harvard doctor is ābestā doctor. However general thinking of society is similar to that. Again what matters is are you going to get what you target at your choice school? If so be happy and enjoy the acceptance and subsequent journey.
@PPofEngrDr - As I mentioned it was my definition to judge my children to see how quickly they can learn and adept - if something is not mentioned in these criteria then that is assumed to be same in both cases. If other things are not same then obviously comparison is not valid. Desire is to know capability of your children so that you can support them according to their capabilities.
Finally I agree with collegeboundxyz to put this behind. It is a personal choice after all. Wishing all the successful BSMDs the best for the coming time and yearsā¦
totally agreed. It is very easy to construed a disagreement as a personal fight, but in essence its not, as parents we all wish good for our kids, we just bring different opinions and views on table and that is it. Cheers !!
Anyone check the VIP portal for Sophie Davis? I now see the following message:
āClick here for the 2018/2019 Admissions Instruction Lettersā. Clicking the link takes me to a āfile not foundā error, but does everyone see the message?
@bamd and @bsmdbamd and @whitecane - congratulations on UMKC acceptance! Best of luck on making your decisions once you have all the options available!
@whitecane - when is your Dās UPitt interview next week? My S will be at UPitt on Wednesday. Just wondering if our paths may cross. Regardless, best of luck to your D next week!
We thought it would be released much later, but it appears RPI-AMC decision has been released (at least some if not all) via email just earlier today. Says written correspondence to follow. My DS was accepted to RPI-AMC.