As per AAMC, % graduates (white) = 58.8%
Very interesting data for Whites:
Applicants = 47.8 %
Matriculates = 51.2 % ===> 3.4% points favorable
Graduates = 58.8% ===> this is mostly due to Hispanic/Latino lower graduation rates.
@srk2017
It is easy to “blame” the student versus looking at structural biases in admissions processes.
Look at the stats I posted above- 3.4% points translates to over 7% favorable matriculation.
It cannot just be attributed to Asians students goofing up.
Look also that the graduation rates - Hispanic/ Latino students ratio falls between matriculation and graduation.
That says something very important.
A big chunk of those students got in due to lower standards but were weeded out.
Loss of medical seats which could have benefited other deserving students.
Lowering standards is not a solution for affirmative action.
@PPofEngrDr
How can whites be over-represented in medicine?
They are a majority in this country.
One data point:
For international students for residency, hospitals have started looking at East Europeans vs Asians.
This has nothing to even caliber of Asian students but a structural change happening to reduce intake of international Asian students.
Typos - “ This has nothing to do with caliber …”
@NoviceDad - Yes, there are structural biases but at the same time we can’t put 100% blame on that vs personal deficiencies. Most asians/Indians assume gpa and standardized tests should be the only ceiteris but fir medicine other factors should be considered. Someone with high stats not getting any admission can’t be blamed on biases. Biases may preclude them getting into T20 achools but not every where.
@srk2017
You precisely nailed it - biases may preclude them from Top20. I call it structural reasons.
As @rk2017 mentioned, PLME is a good example of that in BS/MD program.
What makes you think Asians kids do not do other activities? You think they do not do research? Or shadowing? Or volunteering? Or internship? Or other things? Or cannot write good essays?
The Harvard lawsuit is all about that. Biases, stereotyping, assuming Asians lack soft skills, penalizing Asians for doing “Asian” like activities - piano or dance, etc. Giving them low scores on personality traits without even meeting them.
A Harvard level kid will most likely get into CNU.
What an achievement! Let’s raise a toast.
@novicedad - an Harvard like kid rnding up CNU is an irrational exuberance statement ? the problem is lot of Asian parents try to make kids the ECs what others did and Ivies look for uniqueness and leadership. ECs like speech and debate, eagle scout, piano and dance are beaten to death!
@srk2017
Looks like you missed my sarcasm.
And do you think each and every application to Top 20 is unique? Everyone is a leader? Hmm…,
@NoviceDad - Yes, evey Ivy admitted Asian kid (i know) showed something unique or strong leadership. Uniqueness could be achieving something no one achieved from their school before.
Folks
Requesting all who participated in this year’s BS/MD cycle: Please share your stats and perspectives on the results thread:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/22265149#Comment_22265149
@srk2017
I also know many white kids from the same school being admitted to Ivies while Asian peers were rejected despite having strong leadership skills and uniqueness factors, not to mention better scads / GPA.
I know many legacy Asian kids admitted to Ivies without any leadership skills or uniqueness.
May be their legacy was their uniqueness.
———————
Anyway, this is a never ending topic.
I think this thread needs to stick to BS/MD.
And I do want to say, share your stats and perspectives on your application cycle in the results thread.
@NoviceDad - Yes, legacy is one uniqueness for Ivies that everyone knows. There is no value in harping on white kids admissions vs Asian kids in Ivies. Those who got admitted won’t tell what exactly they put on their application. Simple fact is schools are looking beyond stands and wants diversity.
Aren’t Ivies overrated and any BSMD is better than Harvard and Stanford? 
My son applied two year back so no point in sharing now. Also, just like Ivy admissions there is not much to gain from results thread. No one is going to tell what all they put in their application and share their essays and we don’t how their LORs are. All we hear is apply widely and be ready for disappointments.
Yes, if you have a BS/MD offer accept it.
Better than going the traditional route, especially for Asians.
Agree - apply broadly and be ready to accept the ups and downs.
Accepting BS/MD is not always the best option even for asians :neutral:
Adversity is about an opportunity, not about outcome. No one states that because you are raised in adverse conditions than you become lower standard Dr than your non-adverse counterpart. From education policy point of view, adversity affects all professions, not just medicine.
So are they URM than? Also the link https://www.aamcdiversityfactsandfigures2016.org/report-section/section-3/#figure-4 clearly shows the trend, where it is very apparent that since spike in 90’s, Asian applicants are stagnant and running in narrow band for last 20+ years. At the same time White have lost their share. Is that because Whites have lower standards than Asians? Is spike in 90s’ because out-of-nowhere Asians become steroid intellectual than whites? I don’t think so.
So this whole motion of standard is become convenience for one, not a policy.
we are now blurring line of adversity conditions in this country with immigration.
Most EC activities needs a substantial finance support behind it, albeit student own ability to do it. At the same time a student raised in adverse circumstances won’t able to do same activities, hence a disadvantage. Should that student have an opportunity to perform, certain that we will see different results. That disqualifies argument
How often we heard that 4.0/36 student didn’t make a cut, but a 3.6/33 student did. And then we hear holistic review process for college admission. What is exactly holistic? Essays are one placeholder where students used to describe those adverse circumstances. However those are not quantifiable and a student who didn’t elaborate that would never be known to colleges. Adversity is quantifying it and is an attempt to help out any student in adverse conditions, not tied to a specific race. As America is getting more diverse, won’t be surprise that if While Asians, Brown Asians (traditional), Black Asians, Hispanic Asians norms used at time of grandchildren college admission.
Adversity factor is not same as affirmative action we know of today. To suggest that 22% of Asian MDs or 80% of While MDs in 80s, somehow also joined with others at AAMC to create bias against at their own communities is a height of naive.
Correction ^ not While Asians but White Asians.
not While MDs in 80s, but White MDs in 80s.
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Anyway, this is a never ending topic. I think this thread needs to stick to BS/MD.
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I could have answered many of the countless arguments being raised in this regard, but choosing not to. Knowing well how argumentative people can be and how steadfast they choose to stick to what they believe in.
I have neither bandwidth nor interest in getting into arguments.
Nothing is personal just fair discussion, @rk2017 you are right sometimes ignorance is bless and we all do that at some point of time in online world.