<p>I am trying to understand the advantages/disadvantages of graduating with a BS Mechanical Engineering from schools in different tiers. For example, if a student graduates from a regionally or locally acknowledged program--such as the Milwaukee School of Engineering or Oregon Tech in Klamath Falls--is the student then disadvantaged when it comes to seeking employment or graduate school in other geogrpahical areas because the prospective employers may not be familiar with the school's reputation? What about chances for getting into a good graduate program from schools such as these that appear on the Princeton Review list/peer review, albiet not high in the rankings?</p>
<p>Okay I'm new to this site, and I've noticed that most people on this thread are obsessed with rankings and reputations and not much else, which is pretty disheartening. People spend so much time and energy rating already excellent schools (who cares if you're #5 or #9???) but not many seem to be concerned with related work experience, extracurricular activities, awards and scholarships, leadership experience, etc. Those are the things that will make you stand out amongst all those Ivy Leaguers, no matter where you're coming from.</p>
<p>To give you some perspective, I will be graduating this May with a dual BS degree in Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering from a relative unknown, State University of New York at Buffalo. (Sad to say, our chicken wings are more famous than our school... you'll never see us ranked on USNews) I have already been offered 2 full-time positions (avg $55k) and have more interviews on the way. I am still waiting to hear back from some grad schools, but I have been offered acceptance into Cornell's PhD program (skipping Masters altogether), full tuition paid plus stipend.</p>
<p>I guess my point is, if you are a good student dedicated to doing what it takes to succeed, the name of your school will not bring you down. Sure, coming from a school like MIT might get your transcript in the door, but you've gotta have something else there (like research experience, GPA, extracurricular activities, etc). </p>
<p>Companies and graduate schools are always going to be more familiar with local programs because, well, they've probably been exposed to them before. I wouldn't, however, say that you're "disadvantaged" seeking employment or graduate school somewhere else.</p>
<p>You will never get hired or accepted into a graduate school due to your school's reputation alone. You will also never get denied just because your school's name is unfamiliar. The only difference between me and the other students who got accepted into Cornell from MIT, Stanford, Purdue, GATech, etc, is that I won't be paying off student loans for the next 10 years! =)</p>
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The only difference between me and the other students who got accepted into Cornell from MIT, Stanford, Purdue, GATech, etc, is that I won't be paying off student loans for the next 10 years! =)
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<p>Well, I wouldn't be so blunt about that. First off, both Purdue and Georgia Tech are public schools that caters mostly to native Indianans/Georgians, and so obviously take advantage of cheap in-state tuition. The differences between tuition for instate students at SUNY, Georgia Tech, and Purdue are basically negligible.</p>
<p>Secondly, you discount the notion that while private schools may have high sticker prices, they also tend to be extremely aggressive when it comes to financial aid, such that for some people, it may actually be CHEAPER to attend a private school than to attend a public school. To give you an example, I know 2 people from California who got into both Berkeley and Harvard, and found out that it was actually cheaper for them to go to Harvard, once financial aid was factored in. Basically, Berkeley wanted them to take out loans, whereas Harvard offered them full rides. I will always remember one of them acidly saying that he always wanted to go to Berkeley but he couldn't afford it, so he had "no choice" but to go to Harvard. </p>
<p>Thirdly, I would point out that it is not "unusual" for a engineering doctoral student to get a full tuition and stipend. In fact, this is expected as part of a normal doctoral package. It would actually be weird if you didn't get such a package. It is simply understood that if you get admitted to a doctoral engineering program anywhere, they should be offering you a package. I know of no such student who was not offered such a package.</p>
<p>Point stands.... and it's an extremely valid point... that rankings really aren't everything.</p>
<p>Due pats on the back to those of you at MIT and Harvard and such, but being an outstanding student and community member at a solid institution of lower rank will open just as many doors as being a diploma-holder from HYPSM. You may even end up a little happier, and a little less in debt, depending upon your situation.</p>
<p>Great points Superkoopa. Your message is what I've been preaching on these boards for a long time. The key to your success is not what school you pick but your performance at that school. One's destiny is not secured with their school choice. Don't look at the rankings but find the right school for you.</p>
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they also tend to be extremely aggressive when it comes to financial aid
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<p>Maybe so, but schools such as MIT and Stanford give out need based aid only for undergrads, so for a good deal of students going there, tons of loans ARE a reality. One reason why students should apply not only based on the prestige of the program but also how likely they are to get money from the institution.</p>
<p>What I observed when I practiced engineering:</p>
<p>A lot of employment recruiting for engineers is regionally focused.</p>
<p>For example, my employer went out of region for on-campus recruiting at only maybe 10-15 schools. The big "name " ones. The bulk of its recruiting was from the major state universities in its region, which happened to have highly ranked engineering programs as well. They also visited, and hired from, the "lower tier" colleges in their immediate area.</p>
<p>Based on my experience, I would say that as a grad of a lower ranked program you are likely to see a lot of the jobs in your region that grads of higher ranked programs will see. But you might have somewhat fewer opportunities presented to you that are outside your region.</p>
<p>I dunno, y'all.</p>
<p>I think that motivation is 95% of getting a job. I sent out 150 resumes* and my phone rang off the hook for two solid weeks, and that's pretty much because even here at UIUC, a large chunk of the companies are either Chicago-based, or are John Deere or Caterpillar. Even so, you'll maybe find 15-20 companies who are hiring people in your field, and not all of them are actually hiring. I'd say that UIUC is a big-name engineering school, so it sort of goes to show that if you really want to look all over the nation (or the world) for a job, you've got to do the hunting yourself. If you're game for doing the hunting yourself and put in the required elbow grease doing mailings and follow-up calls, you'll be surprised at how many options you end up with, and I firmly believe that you'll end up with better options than if you sit back and wait for companies to come to you, via career fairs or what-have-you.</p>
<p>Perhaps that's the difference between the ones who come from the number-one ranked engineering programs and the number... oh... eighteen... ranked engineering programs. Or even the number-30 ranked engineering programs. Takes more elbow grease to stand out and shine at one of the "lesser" programs, so you're more game for the hunt and less satisfied to blend in with the uber-brilliant.</p>
<p>-Amy</p>
<p>*Yes, I'm serious. Yes, they included cover letters. Yes, that was a lot of cover letters to write but I really want out of central Illinois. Yes, if you're in structural engineering and you'd like to have a copy of the list, PM me and I'll send it to you. Why so many? Because I know people who send out 150 painstakingly-calligraphied invitations to their weddings, and there's no way that I'm going to put in less effort to my CAREER search than I will into my wedding, which only lasts one day. If you have any other reactions that I haven't covered (these are the answers to the usual reactions) then PM me and I'll respond.</p>
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Maybe so, but schools such as MIT and Stanford give out need based aid only for undergrads, so for a good deal of students going there, tons of loans ARE a reality. One reason why students should apply not only based on the prestige of the program but also how likely they are to get money from the institution.
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<p>Yeah, but the key is how is "need" defined? The fact is, many of these schols define need quite aggressively. For example, I seem to recall that Stanford has declared that anybody who comes from a family making less than 45k a year will get a guaranteed full ride. No public school that I know of makes that promise. So for a person coming from that kind of financial background, it is often times cheaper to go to Stanford than to a public school. </p>
<p>I would also point out that while it is true that Stanford and MIT don't give out merit aid, Caltech does. My brother went to Caltech on a President's Scholarship, where he got a full ride + stipend. Hence, he actually made money by going to Caltech. It's hard to beat a deal like that.</p>
<p>Interesting to note. I think that way back before light bulbs were invented, I remembered hearing about Caltech's PS at one of their info meetings as a senior in HS.</p>
<p>Like I've said, there are exceptions to every rule. Still, on the average, it's more expensive for the <em>average</em> American family to send their son or daughter to the <em>average</em> high-falootin' private university than it is to send them to the <em>average</em> middle-ground engineering school.</p>
<p>To get that aid from Caltech, you not only have to be among the top 100 or so science and math students in the country, you have to be THE top. For kids who aren't, well, it's really not an option. That said, it's quite possibly the best deal around.</p>
<p>However, a good deal of engineering students come from families making more than 45k...middle to upper middle class. For them, unless they're swimming in merit offers or their parents have spent the time saving and planning, state school will be cheaper.</p>
<p>How many kids really get full rides to Harvard? How many kids even get INTO Harvard? Not as many as want to go to college. I'll agree, if someone gets such an offer, they should probably take it...but they have to get that offer first, which is where the problem lies.</p>
<p>:)</p>
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To get that aid from Caltech, you not only have to be among the top 100 or so science and math students in the country, you have to be THE top. For kids who aren't, well, it's really not an option. That said, it's quite possibly the best deal around.
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<p>Oh, I don't know about that. I know my brother has said many times that he doesn't think he's even in the top thousand of science/math students in the country, never mind being THE top. He once said that he knew some people who he thought were, quite frankly, better than him, who didn't get the deal. </p>
<p>There 's a lot of luck and randomness involved. I think a lot of it had to do simply with the fact that Caltech really thought that he would go to MIT (which he did get into EA), and for some reason, Caltech thought that it would be good to steal him away from MIT. Why him specifically? Good question. He said that he thought there were other people going to MIT in that same year who were more deserving of that Caltech award than he was. </p>
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However, a good deal of engineering students come from families making more than 45k...middle to upper middle class. For them, unless they're swimming in merit offers or their parents have spent the time saving and planning, state school will be cheaper.
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<p>45k is not a hard cliff cutoff. The more you make above that, the less generous the package, but it can still be quite generous. For example, I think that Harvard's aid policy is that anybody whose family makes less than 40k gets a full ride in the form of 100% grants. Anybody who comes from families making less than 60k also gets a full ride, but that full ride may not be all grants (i.e. it may have some grants, and also have work-study and/or subsidized loan components). The point is, there are plenty of students who will find that an elite private school will be comparable in post-aid cost to a public school.</p>
<p>And then of course there are plenty of people who are so rich that they just don't care. I would venture to say that a lot of the Harvard student body falls into this category. If your family is already rolling in the dough, then saving some money on instate tuition is probably not going to be a big deal. </p>
<p>So it's really a "doughnut". Private schools tend to cater to those who are either rich or poor. Those people in the doughnut hole of the middle-class are probably going to prefer their public school. </p>
<p>But even so, this is unclear to me. If you REALLY want to save money, then the answer may be to go to a no-name school (which may well be a private school) that will give you a full ride + stipend. There are a lot of private schools out there with lots of money who are willing to poach top students into their student body.</p>
<p>The point is, it's unclear to me whether public schools are really as good of a deal as they are sometimes made out to be. Yes, the ostensible sticker price looks good, but things get complicated greatly when you factor in financial aid and merit scholarships, which many private schools aggressively wield.</p>
<p>Or if you're lucky enough to live in a state with a good engineering school like Illinois, there's no need to worry about travelling. Yes!</p>