<p>I keep searching my mind trying to think of an equivalent example to the DOJ mandate to universities and i really can’t. A business could effectively fire an employee if that employee did something that was egregious (like sexual harassment) but it’s fairly easy to bury a job in your resume and the ‘next’ equivalent company and business doesn’t have access to your previous personnel records. You’re generally only required to report felony offenses by most businesses when you apply. It’s another thing for a student at a selective college to bury the reason for leaving one college to start anew at another equivalent college or university when the new university is allowed access to this type of information. Also I’m wondering how colleges handle cases of other nonsexual related felony offenses…or are all those immediately turned over to the police? Sorry to continue to focus on the process and procedure. I’m pretty firmly on record stating that universities should be mandatory reporters (to the police) so don’t want to rehash my feelings on that. </p>
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<p>For the selective colleges, they cannot “bury” an expulsion or suspension; the colleges ask about them things on the transfer app. Apps to professional schools also require an explanation for any academic actions.</p>
<p>Catching up and responding to Momofthreeboys who may (or may not?) have been saying gang rape in fraternities (poetgrl post) didn’t happen in the '70s - it definitely happened. We just didn’t have the words to describe it yet. </p>
<p>In 1974, at my southern state flagship, with single sex dorms and curfews for freshwomen (though not men) during my first week of college a pledge at the sorority house next door to mine went to a fraternity party and: got really drunk and had sex with at least half a dozen fraternity boys, on the pool table in the commons room, even though she was having her period. There was blood everywhere. Disgusting. That’s what I heard the the next day over breakfast. She didn’t get booted from her pledge class because she was a cheerleader and that was really high status. She was, however, ever after labeled “slut” and regarded as a girl who “should have known better.” That fraternity had a reputation. The “boys” were wild and not really gentlemen. The fault was all hers. Learning from her experience I never set foot in that house or dated any of those “boys.” I benefited from her tragedy. It was never ever suggested during my undergraduate years that fraternity boys were capable of rape. It had to be the girl’s fault. Rape was when you didn’t know the assailant. Even if it happened in a dark alley, probably it was the girl’s fault. She should have been more careful. I don’t really know how many decades passed before I could reframe this story. Fraternity men got an 18 year old freshwomen, her first week on campus, so drunk she couldn’t behave rationally or either spiked her drink. Perhaps she passed out. They gang raped her on a pool table. They hurt her terribly. There was lots of blood. Maybe she was a virgin. Maybe that was the blood. Maybe she had never heard she was supposed to be extra careful at that fraternity house. Her sorority big sisters took her there for a mixer. Why didn’t they warn her? Why didn’t they stop it? If there had been a Women’s Studies Dept at my school, maybe it wouldn’t have taken me years to reframe that story. Maybe that would have given me the words I needed to change the story into something very different. Maybe if I had had more female teachers in college, it would have changed my reaction. I went to college four years and four summers (because I really loved it) and had three women teachers total: two assistant professors who were were later not tenured. One permanent instructor, married to a dept head. I was not studying math or science. I went on to law school for a short while and it just occurs to me, for the very first time, there were zero female teachers in the law school.</p>
<p>Things have changed in the last 40 years. We describe things differently. I think we need Women’s Studies because most classes are still male studies. They are studies of the patriarchy. It is inevitable. That is still the world in which we live. IMHO that is why these threads always start worrying about the boys.</p>
<p>Why am I continually being attributed to things I never said…it’s giving me a complex.</p>
<p>BTW I went to a very small school with no sororities or fraternities and lived in single sex housing all the years I was on campus… by choice.</p>
<p>@momofthreeboys wrote:</p>
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<p>Why are you apologizing? That is exactly what the DOJ is focused on. The process and procedure are the central issues. </p>
<p>@bluebayou wrote:</p>
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<p>Actually, this can and does happen, I bet. </p>
<p>Colleges, like companies, want to avoid lawsuits and also do not want to look like idiots that made a bad personnel decision. That is why I never talk to references, unless I know the reference. Complete waste.</p>
<p>I knew someone well, from my school, who got caught up in something like this with a girl, while at another school. It was serious enough that the other school contacted and involved my school. He even got serious stuff put on his record and is not allowed to go to the other school ever again. Got probation etc. OK, not an expulsion, but still serious. Yet, same person went on to a top-3 business school and went on to run a top fortune 20 company, which we all know. </p>
<p>Remember though, this was before the Internet. Whole different story now; the issue today is a bad reputation, which is worse than an expulsion really. </p>
<p>Hiring a genius with a known bad reputation is a no-no. Hiring a genius with a felony rape conviction is a no-no. Hiring a genius who was expelled for an unproved altercation with a female is much easier, especially if he says he was railroaded. </p>
<p>This is why I completely understand males are fighting back on accusations, unproved charges and lack of due process. The expulsion is not really the problem; it are the bad reputation and rumors, which will destroy your life.</p>
<p>The Internet is huge…and why I advocate a counselor talking to accusers before they call Title IX officers. If the college is able to keep this confidential that is good in some cases where the cimiinal aspect is marginal, but if the accused decides to go to the media and to civil court or the accuser feels that "justice was not met"and turns to the civil courts then it becomes public. And public information can haunt someone long past the actual sequence of events. Parents need to think about those things…I know my boys would call me first and I know what I would say. I know this with certainty. As someone who spends their days (and is paid for) thinking through the sequence of “what if” it pains me that it feels like the DOJ did not think through this clearly. It feels like a rubber stamped band-aid to a very serious problem. I do think the video-taping, street corner pronouncements of women who have an agenda could also have unconsidered victims. I worry that the Lena in the Brown Case is not getting good counsel and at risk of being sued for defamation of character…but then again maybe it’s just my midwestern sensibilities at work…or my years of having to think of the “what ifs” of decisions and not always being the popular kid in the conference room even though I love new ideas, new thoughts.</p>
<p>On a somewhat ironic note my oldest who graduated in '11 is in operations and seems to be being groomed for risk management. having been sent to some seminars and asked to speak at the new employee meetings…wonder where he got that gene. </p>
<p>@much2learn Wow! You are reading a whole of things that weren’t said or even implied by two sentences. I’ll address a few points but this is really silly imho. Here ya go…</p>
<p>You brought up the idea of young men hurling passed out women over their shoulders and carrying them off to their rooms. Not me. Glad to hear we agree it’s rare. I certainly did not attack your daughter. That’s ridiculous. I have no clue what you are even reading. I did say public drunkenness is a crime, because it is and in your example of the tarzan-like maneuver these people have be out somewhere since you have the guy carrying her home. Home from where? They have to be out in public or there would be no need to go home. I disparaged no-one, but just for the record those girls who party their brains out do have their share of disparagers. That’s good to know as well. Are men and women different? Duh, yes. Example one would be the preposterous posts suggesting girls might use objects to rape young men. It became impossible to take this thread seriously after that ridiculous assertion. </p>
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There is such thing as a general “your”. I’m sure acting did not refer to your actual daughter, but was rather speaking in a general case. I certainly didn’t see it as such. </p>
<p>@actingmt “Tell your daughter not to pass out in public for starters.”</p>
<p>It sounded like a personal attack at my daughter when you responded to my comment with this quote. I am glad it was not intended that way. Thank you.</p>
<p>LOL! I would tell my daughter not to pass out in public, too. </p>
<p>Hey, time for a group hug? (only after the x-ray and metal scans though) :-* </p>
<p>Okay, @awcntdb, but only if I get a clear and enthusiastic “yes” first. ;)</p>
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<p>After all, this group is going 43 pages strong. Not bad. Not bad at all. </p>
<p>@Much2learn - A “yes” to what?</p>
<p>EDIT: Oh, I get it now. An enthusiastic “yes” to the group hug. </p>
<p>I don’t want to hug someone without consent @awcntdb. “yes” it is okay to hug. </p>
<p>@actingmt
I know you think it would never happen, but I have learned to never underestimate the stupid crazy things that people do.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.whatsonxiamen.com/news6422.html”>http://www.whatsonxiamen.com/news6422.html</a></p>
<p>No, I don’t think it would never happen. Everything happens. I’m very much aware of that. However, this is so out there and so not the issue that to say. “See look, girls can do it,” is just really off the mark, imho. People are confusing rape with sexual assault with misunderstanding and with misread non- verbal cues and throwing in alcohol and now a dildo. Good grief. I need a break. Hugs.</p>
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<p>No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude.</p>
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<p>Well-said and agreed. </p>
<p>This definitely makes sense if rational means being politically-correct.</p>
<p>Interesting term, attitude. Actual proven knowledge, facts and historical data, what are those antiquated concepts? Attitude is where it is at, baby! Spoken like a true superficial thinker.</p>
<p>It does come with the territory, as an independent thinker, to be called irrational. Scientists, who concluded the sun did not orbit the earth, were called irrational for not following the correct thinking of the time. They had the wrong attitude; their research data were deemed irrelevant and ignored. Sounds familiar. This is, but one example. </p>
<p>History has proved quite handily how accurate contemporary prevailing unsubstantiated attitudes turn out to be, irrespective of what time in history is studied. </p>