time mag article "Sexual Assault Crisis on American campuses"

Parents Forum
1101

<p>niquii:</p>

<p>Reader Response Theory

<a href=“http://www.poetryfoundation.org/learning/glossary-term/reader-response%20theory”>http://www.poetryfoundation.org/learning/glossary-term/reader-response%20theory&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As you are aware Laura Mulvey introduced the idea of “male gaze”</p>

<p>

<a href=“http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MaleGaze”>http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MaleGaze&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>bell hook writes

<a href=“http://imaginenoborders.org/pdf/zines/UnderstandingPatriarchy.pdf”>http://imaginenoborders.org/pdf/zines/UnderstandingPatriarchy.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>When I read this thread I am interpreting it in several ways. One is reading it as an example of the male gaze. Whether that is a valid reading is certainly a legitimate question. </p>

<p>…</p>

<p>I think I’m off the thread now. I’ve pretty much been on a different thread all along anyway. I am not so very out of touch I don’t get that.</p>

1102

<p>Well, if you are leaving the thread @alh , I’m leaving.</p>

<p>I don’t think you can actually talk about how we think and talk about rape without talking about the default thought position on men and women. It’s not a very good thread without some critical theory, imho. We have to talk about the way we talk about this, and theory is an important part of this in a changed and changing world.</p>

<p>@Hunt brought up an interesting point, buried a way back, in that it is important not to leave the sexual education of your sons to the porn industry, and important to let young men know that what is presented as de riguer in porn has little to do with what the majority of women in their 20s want from sex. </p>

1103

<p>Right. I thought Hunt’s point was good, too. I didn’t respond because I really can’t do so without thinking about Andrea Dworkin. Pro and Con. And continuing from there. I have been thinking about porn for 40 years and still don’t know what to think. That is pretty much what I told my sons. At the end of talking their ears off about a million and ones ways to think about it. A platonic female friend of my sons spent a college break at my house. She was studying a lot of theory (do they even call it that anymore?) and wanted to talk about porn and female orgasm… nonstop. She was definitely concerned about unrealistic depictions. It was really bothering her and I could completely understand why. Basically she wanted to know what was “normal” and I really wasn’t sure there was an answer to that question.</p>

<p>bye bye : )</p>

1104

<p>@alh Yeah, I doubt they call it theory, anymore. </p>

<p>take care.</p>

1105

<p><a href=“'The Daily Show' Segment On Campus Sexual Assault Shows How School Are Failing Students”>http://elitedaily.com/women/the-daily-show-segment-on-campus-sexual-assault-shows-how-school-are-failing-students/647646/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The Daily Show - The Fault in Our Schools. </p>

1106

<p>@Niquii77 That is actually pretty good. Lots of good advice for women in there, hidden in the humor. And, I think it accurately portrays that men do have it easier than women in terms of navigating certain issues.</p>

<p>What is interesting though is none of that is what the colleges are being sued for, and that is the trouble discussing a complicated issue; that is, it is easy to focus on the part you want and make it seem that is the issue. It is important to remember that the colleges are being sued by men, not because the men were found guilty, but because they felt they were denied due process of presenting their case. Even with all different angles, it is that aspect that is going to determine outcomes for the schools and what the eventual process will be.</p>

1107

<p>The colleges are being sued by the DOJ on behalf of hundreds and hundreds of women. </p>

<p>The outcomes of all these cases should be interesting.</p>

1108

<p>Yes, one lawyer and I can’t remember the article or i would cite it, said he’s getting a dozen calls a week but has only accepted a couple cases so far. How appropriate however, that lawsuits will ultimately determine the outcome of how colleges and universities handle issues that have at their heart criminal behavior. </p>

1109

<p>@poetgrl‌ </p>

<p>I know you think I make lots of bizarre assumptions, which actually I find a compliment. I am where I am because I do see things differently and make non-conventional assumptions, albeit bizarre to some, maybe many. But the day I stop making those, I will have failed a whole lot of people who depend on me to make them. So, please allow me to present one more bizarre assumption. </p>

<p>There is an important distinction that needs to be made in order not to spread false information and false hope.</p>

<p>The schools are NOT being sued buy the DOJ; they are being INVESTIGATED by the DOJ. For the religious analogy, that is the difference between going to straight-to-hell versus purgatory. </p>

<p>However, the schools are being SUED by men who say their rights were curtailed, suspended, or completely ignored when accused and trying to present their side of the story. Violation of fundamental constitutional rights is a big, big deal. Astronomically bigger than any DOJ investigation because the ramifications are much more serious.</p>

<p>My bizarre assumption is this:</p>

<p>A DOJ investigation is Washington DC parlance of politically we have to look like we are doing something. What is salient is an investigation costs the schools little money, if any at all. They hand over documents and answer some questions. Then the DOJ either suggests amended processes or quietly just drops the investigation. I suspect they will recommend some changes. But, the key is the DOJ investigation really does not impact the schools like people think. (I cannot tell how many investigations our business sector gets. We just ignore them because we ship them more paperwork than they can read; they end up saying something, as if they did something; and it is over. It would not surprise me in the least if that happens here, but with more fanfare.)</p>

<p>Why do I think this? Because the lawsuits by the men have the potential to cost real money. I guarantee you the colleges are more afraid of those lawsuits than any DOJ investigation because it impacts their viability if they have to pay large damages. And remember some of these ruling are totaling affecting some people’s lives - actual paid damages are not going to be small change. Furthermore, those lawsuits can quietly last for years and there is a point where the college governing boards are going to see their legal accounting line item cost them a building or two. And it will get worse if they lose just one case. </p>

<p>In summary, my bizarre assumption is, regardless of what the DOJ investigation says, colleges are not going to do one thing that threatens their actual long-term viability. And if it found that they are, they will quickly abandon the practice. It is cheaper for the 55 colleges together to fight an actual lawsuit (does not exist yet, if ever) by the DOJ than to fight multiple separate lawsuits and pay out damages one-by-one-by-one…, all because they were / are following bad DOJ advice. </p>

<p>This will get sorted out, but it will not be ultimately because of DOJ actions; it will be because the colleges are going to be held to fundamental standards, which are higher and greater than the political; reminder, the DOJ is politcal.</p>

1110

<p>acw, my reference to your bizarre assumptions had to do with your assumptions about relationships, and the fact that I think people ought mostly to speak for themselves and let their spouses speak for themselves. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>I do not think your thinking about rape on college campuses is bizarre. I think it is an old school way of thinking, and I think you are going to be surprised by the way this all turns out.</p></li>
<li><p>When you talk about University viability, by now, you must have realized that undergraduates are the least important thing to them. What they want is research dollars and federal grant money. If you think the receipt of research dollars and federal grant money is not political, then you are very naive.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Anyway, good luck. We can go round and round and round on this thing, but, in the end, all sorts of pressures will be brought to bear on the colleges and universities from all sorts of arenas, and they will not only be the courts.</p>

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<p>Or the colleges will reach a settlement on the lawsuits as they already have in a couple cases and then nobody knows anything because of a confidentiality clause and the colleges move on. But yes, i agree the lawsuits against the college are probably more important to the colleges than DOJ investigations since it costs the colleges money. Some groups have filed complaints with the DOJ, but I’m not sure how complaints are handled.</p>

1112

<p>Well, I for one do not think that is a bizarre assumption, at all. So much of this whole thing and so many others lately is all about a political effort to make people believe there is problem solving going on when there really is just none of that happening. It’s an illusion. That’s the bizarre part, imho. </p>

1113

<p>The colleges face a loss of eligibility for federal research funds. </p>

<p>It’s not as cut and dried as you make it sound, acw, nor is it ever.</p>

<p>I’ve heard all sorts of points of view on this board about affirmative action, and holistic admissions, and how the courts are going to intercede. They really never do. It’s astonishing, actually, the way the courts don’t see things in quite the way we think they will… Not in terms of illegal immigrants getting in state tuition, not in terms of admissions… etc. </p>

<p>These schools may be found to have done something, or nothing, but that doesn’t mean it will cost them much of anything at all.</p>

1114

<p>

</p>

<p>That is totalitarian at its core. Take away money even if it is ruled that what colleges are doing is on its face violates the Constitution? Wow! At that point, we would have ceased to be a constitutional republic.</p>

<p>Alas, even the DOJ knows that court cases against the colleges’ procedures are a death kneel to forcing colleges to disobey a ruling. The federal money is not worth that, as the colleges know if they violate a court ruling then that increases the chances multi-fold that they lose a lot more cases from there on out. So, the DOJ can threaten, but in the end the courts have the final say.</p>

<p>And the fact that some schools have become dependent on taxpayer money re research funding etc. is a good enough reason alone some of them should go down. Here is a novel idea: create a product at a price that people will pay for and stop begging for other people’s money. (Donations excepted because those are voluntary). I know not for this thread, but had to say it. </p>

1115

<p>

</p>

<p>I understood that. And I did find it interesting you actually thought that makes sense. </p>

<p>Maybe you should read what I wrote about MY relationship again:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I explained exactly how my wife and I function. There is nothing assumptive in my statement.</p>

<p>However, you made the assumption that what I wrote is not exactly what we, as a team, believe and how we operate. Somehow, you assume you know how each relationship functions (hint - they are not all the same). I explain exactly how my relationship works and because it not like yours or your friends’ you think I am making assumptions.</p>

<p>I will let others decide which is more bizarre - that I tell you exactly how my relationship functions without equivocation, or you, not knowing us at all, thinking you can make the assumption that what I write is not accurate about my relationship, but just an assumption. </p>

<p>You sure you are not my wife’s mom? She always thinks she knows what we are saying, even when we say the opposite. </p>

1116

<p>When a male rapes a female, that is a MALE problem. What is this “female accountability” -_- </p>

1117

<p>@awcntdb‌ The link did not have anything to do with what the colleges were being sued for. Just saw this video, thought it was great, and decided to share it. :)</p>

1118

<p>@Niquii77 I know. But, that is what makes the issue complicated. The video is dead on in examining some aspects of the situation, but leaves out details and might give a false impression in some places.</p>

<p>For example, the females says that the police and colleges are not going to help her, so save everything for a civil suit. I really think that is an overstatement. As we have discussed, a lot of females decided or were told not to report to the police. And most females are also reluctant to file civil suits, so it sounds like a lot of those exist that are filed by females, when that is not the case… </p>

<p>Either way, like you, I thought it was great, as well. And humor is a good way to get a serious message across, which it does well. </p>

1119

<p>@Julia 1414 “When a male rapes a female, that is a MALE problem. What is this “female accountability” -_-”</p>

<p>She is accountable because she is there. This entire crisis is just an imaginary problem created by the Obama administration to scare women into voting for Hilary. </p>

<p>Isn’t it obvious that when a women leaves the protection of her father or husband, and goes out in public, that she is responsible for whatever happens next? Why else would she be there? Women need to stop blaming others and take responsibility for the risks they take. Why is it always someone else’s fault? Clearly she is hoping to achieve “victim status” so she will be more popular. It is not fair to blame the man, she is participating too. It takes two ya know. She could have taken a MOOC class, but she chose to attend a coed college for a reason. The problem is that women sometimes feel guilty afterward and call the police to pretend they didn’t want it. But if she didn’t want it, then why did she wait until afterwards to report it? If a woman wants to make a legitimate claim, she needs to call, while it is happening. Otherwise, it is just a retroactive change of mind. Plus, the whole rape term is offensive to men. Why don’t you call it a “misunderstanding” or “assault with a friendly weapon”?</p>

<p>We hear so much about women being equal, so why do women complain about being equally responsible for rape? You can’t have it both ways. Do you want to be equal or not? Make up your mind. Geeesh.</p>

<p>The claim that lots of rapes are happening and nothing is being done has been shown to be false because there are very few rape convictions. Therefore, nothing needs to be done. It is not a real rape until there is a conviction, it is just a misunderstanding. Enough whining already.</p>

1120

<p>Again, a huge mischaracterization which says a lot more about your political agenda than anyone else’s. Interestingly.</p>