Time to get a list and strategy figured out

College Search & Selection
121

re #110: “I think the rest of them are all either in liberal areas or skew pretty hard that direction despite their location.”

You may be correct, but in your shoes, (if you haven’t already), you might want to investigate further: Rice, Davidson, Wake Forest, St. Olaf, … (you mentioned Rhodes yourself). My kids didn’t apply to any of these schools, so I haven’t investigated them much myself, but in some cases the surrounding areas and/or other factors make them suspect on this score. To me. YMMV etc.

For example:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150226112946/https://oir.rice.edu/Historical_Facts/Students/Demographics__U_S_/
shows 60% of domestic students were from Texas (some sources say this is down to 50% now), by my count about 15% were from west coast or northeast.
For Wake Forest it was about 25%. Could perhaps be that the students attending are different from their surrounding environments, that does happen.

122

@dadof4kids S19’s list was almost all LACs. All RD. The deal is this - one has to show that they fit. Those essays are very important. The AOs have to see that the student fits on the campus. LACs are small and have certain vibes. I know it’s hard to impossible to visit now but I would have your D spend as much time on schools’ websites as she can. Reach out to students if she knows any at the schools.

For the LACs, they need athletes, musicians, writers, etc. and they need to fill up each sort of cohort. Can’t have even a tiny dance dept without a few dancers. These schools accept kids who they think will get what they need from the school. If a student is an outdoor enthusiast and their app shows they like to hike or ski, it seems they are more likely to be admitted to a school that could offer that environment. This also might have something to do with yield. They want to accept kids who will enroll so they need to see the fit.

If the app has a way to show your D knows the school well by offering up a supplemental question asking “why our school”, have her dig deep and be very personal in her answer and show she understands what the school stands for and give specific examples of what she would like to do once on campus.

I don’t know if your D is limiting her apps and I hate to be the one who says send a lot, but that would be my advice. Lol. But she will need to really spend time on those essays.

123

Tulane accepted 720 kids in ED last year out of 2100 ED applicants. In the EA and RD rounds, they accepted 5400 out of 42,000 or so. So, the acceptance percentage at Tulane is obviously high in ED. They don’t break out EA and RD numbers but I assume it’s best to apply EA and there’s no reason no to do so. It’s just an earlier deadline. One has to assume that many of the 42,000 are throwing an app Tulane’s way because (a) it’s free and (b) there aren’t a lot of EA options for top schools. Not all of those 42,000 are competitive.

124

I understand what you are saying but just be aware that they defer many, many kids from EA. Happened to my D. 4.0, 34 ACT, co-Val, visited and showed lots of interest and she was deferred. The kids I know that got accepted this year applied ED. For EA it was a crapshoot. Also, remember they recently added ED II which is also going to take seats away from the regular decision applicant pool.

To summarize, Tulane is a very tough admit for EA and regular decision.

125

Completely agree with post 121! D20 only applied to LACs and Brandeis, choosing every school very carefully. We visited many schools twice, looking for nuances and fit. Several schools were listed as peer institutions of the others. Despite the fact that many people say Colgate and Bucknell could be twins, we didn’t find that to be the case. D loved one, absolutely hated the other. We thought she would have loved Amherst and she practically ran screaming to the car after about 5 minutes. The point is your D needs to do virtual sessions, maybe more than one at each school and ask lots of questions! When she finds the contenders, she will know for sure and be able to put her efforts into showing how she can contribute.

126

Thanks for the continued comments.

@monydad it’s an issue I will research further. I’m guessing Wake ends up being one of the schools that drops off anyway, but the other 3 you mentioned may stay on. I’ve heard they are pretty balanced and somewhat apolitical, but I will seek more opinions. None are being considered for ED at this point.

RE: Tulane:

I saw somewhere that the RD rate was 1%, which is about what I would expect. They value interest so much I’m guessing they think if you didn’t at least EA then you don’t pass that test. It sounds like they try to push the deferred EA kids (which is most of the applicants) to switch to ED II to increase their chances. Personally I think it should be considered for that if she doesn’t get into Amherst (I know they are very different schools, but appealing for different reasons). My guess is that she won’t though and will ED II Hamilton instead.

RE: # of Apps:

It’s going to be a bunch. I think especially this year it will be a bit of a crap shoot where she gets in. So having more chances will help, maybe even a bit more than normal. Her schedule is comparatively light first semester, and she knows she is going to be spending a ton of time on essays. She is not excited by that, but understands that it is the reality. The push for the selective school is from her not me. So if she wants to reach that goal she probably has to spend a good chunk of her free time between now and Jan 1 crafting essays. That would include info sessions, instagram stalking, etc. to know what to write to show her fit.

127

I wonder how many of those EA deferrals end up being acceptances. I thought I remembered seeing a lot of those kids accepted eventually…at least in the small sample set here on CC.

128

This.

I go to Agnes Scott and while it’s a fine institution, the emphasis on global leadership and activism can be tiring and often hypocritical from students and the admin. It’s a great school if you’re an off-beat non conforming person, but for others it is too much of an “SJW” bubble.

129

Essays can run into March depending on Honors Colleges and scholarships. You can usually reuse some essays but not all. It’s a lot of work.

130

@dadof4kids Have you looked the schools she’s interested in up in College Factual? It shows the schools’s diversity, including geographic, with a map! It was very helpful for us with older S in terms of taking schools off the list.

We’re from a SW small urban area and wanted S to be around a diversity of kids/views, but not overly conservative (we’re liberal). While he ultimately decided he wanted a LAC, Wake came off based on CF data, as did Rhodes and W&L.

Richmond went on the list, based on CF data, among other things, and he ended up there (over Colgate, which he’d loved until his visit to UR). Almost all his friends are democrats (not because he looks for that, just how it is), and he says the school is more left than right, but definitely not a SJW school.

Re, Tulane, I’ve been following their trend and they’ve been WL many more high stats kids EA in the last couple of years, but if you’re from an underrepresented state (as we are), and show demonstrated interest (be in touch with your AO, etc), our stats are still showing most of our school’s kids getting in EA. Plus, if she ends up with a 32, she doesn’t look like the WL kids, at least ACT-wise (from my very, very unofficial review! I’m seeing 34/35 WL, a little below that and 36s, with amazing ECs, get in). But, who knows how things will turn out this year.

Good luck! We have twin rising seniors and are struggling with the process without having been able to visit schools. Crazy times!

131

In following this comment I learned that College Factual offers a USN style overall ranking, but with universities and LACs combined. Those who are curious should be able to find it pretty easily.

132

I agree with your earlier comment that finding a true safety (where he/she will be happy to attend) is not possible for every kid. My kids didn’t love their safeties but they are excellent schools and I do think they would have ended up happy there.

I also think your D does need to apply widely, but think about balancing the number of schools with potential burnout on essay writing and showing interest/contacting AOs. While I do agree showing fit through essays can be important, I almost think that just writing great essays and being an interesting person is more important (assuming the student has strong stats and other accomplishments). I’ve read many threads and comments on elite college admissions and some argue for demonstrating how the student fits at that school while others say that sometimes what a college wants in terms of fit is not clear to the applicants but it is to the AOs. Further, since these colleges want diverse classes, different students will fit in different ways. From my experience with two kids, I think the quality of their essays and demonstrating who they are had more to do with their acceptances than showing particular fits for those schools. But who knows?

I had crazy college admissions rides with both D17 and S19 - lots of RD applications due to the need for comparing financial offers. With D17, she applied to almost all LACs and we visited many (Davidson and Richmond were among her top three choices). She ended up at Vassar even though were not able to visit!
S19 had more reaches on his list due to seeking greater FA but had a combination of LACs and universities. His results were a bit surprising and I’m glad to hear that your D feels she would be happy at many of the schools on her list. You never know what’s going to happen on this roller coaster! I won’t list all of his results but he was wait listed at Amherst, Williams, and Carlton but accepted to Brown (under 5% RD acceptance rate) and Vanderbilt (under 7% RD acceptance rate). Best of luck to your D! I think she’ll have some great choices.

133

^*Carleton :smile:

134

D21 had the ACT in July, so she knew I was putting together this list but wasn’t super involved while the thread was active. Then last week she worked a bunch of hours and spent the weekend camping with her close circle of friends. FINALLY today we went over the list. Still not finalized, but here is where I think she is at:

Likely to apply:

State U - auto-admit and affordable, this is the safety
Amherst ED
Hamilton possible ED2
Tulane EA, and possibly ED2 if deferred
Brown
Colby*
Vassar
Bates*
Middlebury*
Grinnell*
Rochester
Case Western*
Rice
Dartmouth
Carleton
Davidson
Macalester
Connecticut College*
Mt Holyoke
Richmond
Bowdoin
Northeastern*

Still thinking about:

Williams
Pomona
Haverford
St Olaf
Whitman*
Colgate

Not definitely eliminated, but I’m pretty sure will be:

Vanderbilt
Colorado College
Yale
Stanford
Bryn Mawr
Kenyon
Bucknell
Franklin & Marshall
Lafayette
Harvard
Barnard

There are still a few too many on the “likely to apply” list even if she maxes out the 20 slots on the common app. My guess is that some will get knocked off, and she may move up a couple from the “thinking about” list or she may not. If she has the endurance for it, probably she will end up applying to close to 20. That’s the plan today, we will see if she feels the same way in December when she still has essays to write.

She kind of likes but probably won’t apply to the others for various reasons. But she isn’t willing to say definitely no yet.

State U is a guaranteed admit, most likely into the Honors College. That is the safety. I threw out some other safeties to her, but she said she would prefer State U to all of them, so she doesn’t want to apply to any of them. She seems less negative about that than she was earlier. I’m guessing she is trying to get herself to a place where she will be disappointed but not crushed if that is her only option in March. She will proceed with only one safety, but it is an auto-admit so I think that’s fine. Otherwise it’s probably all high match/reach schools.

The ones with a * don’t have any supplemental essays, which could come into play in determining who stays on the list and who goes, especially as essay fatigue sets in.

Overall not many surprises when I talked to her, but a couple. One was where Tulane stands. It doesn’t fit in with most of the others, and since she keeps leaning more towards the LACs every time we talk I didn’t know if she would still want it on the list. She said it’s probably in her top 4. The other surprise was Northeastern, which is way different from the others. It’s twice as big as the upper limit she gave me, and doesn’t have the “post card” campus she is looking for. But she likes the idea of living in Boston and the somewhat unique structure with the co-ops. Not that there aren’t some differences between all of the schools, but I think those 2 are the outliers that don’t seem to fit in with the others.

She wants to get on a couple info sessions tomorrow to try to get things figured out. So that’s good. She has been avoiding this I think because honestly she tends to fall in love with all of them, and she doesn’t want to be crushed when they tell her no. But she seems to be ready to keep things moving finally, so I’m happy.

135

It’s over, and she’s hasn’t had the Cheshire Cat grin leave her face for the last 27 hours.

Thanks again to everyone who gave input on this thread. It was very helpful and very appreciated. I’m circling back around to let you know how things went.

Ended up with a 33 ACT superscore. She sent it in, because felt that since her HS was an unknown entity it helped confirm her ability to handle the work at a top school.

Apps she sent in:
Amherst ED
CWRU EA
Tulane EA
CWRU EA
Macalester EA
Rochester (in by Dec 1 for scholarship consideration)
Whitman (in by Dec 1 for app fee waiver)
State U (rolling, admitted with full tuition scholarship)

Lots of others lined up, no essays written but lots of them she at least had bullet points, or notes on how to expand on/chop up something she had already written.

She was accepted ED to Amherst, so we will never know how the other apps would have turned out. She withdrew them all today and confirmed to Amherst that she would see them in August.

Special shout out to @publisher who has been pointing out from the beginning that a 1/350 rank kid from an underrepresented state should use their ED bullet very carefully, because there is a good chance to hit the target. I am very happy to report that he was correct. ED apps were up 40% so the ED admit rate was down to 25% this year at Amherst, and that’s including the athletes and others who really had their slots already lined up before official decisions came out. My guess is that unhooked ED this year was no better than RD in a regular year, although I expect RD to be even tougher.

In the end, she wanted a lot of the things at Brown but wanted it to be an LAC. I think the LAC version of Brown is probably not a bad description of Amherst. We debated lowering the target a bit, but decided that Amherst really was the definite #1, so she should use her ED shot there. If it didn’t work out, she was ready to apply to a bunch more places, mostly LAC’s (the midsized U’s had EA or scholarship benefits to applying early so those apps were already done).

Everything worked out perfectly for her. Thanks again for all the helpful comments I received from all of you.

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136

Oh Congratulations!!!
How wonderful for your family that your D got in to her choice, and that this is over for her.
Giving a shout out to. @purplemama, whose D is currently @Amherst.

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137

I’ll see you on Memorial Hill! #Tusksup! :purple_heart:

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