Timing of Talks with Ivy Coach

Athletic Recruits
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<p>My choice of words was probably poor, I was thinking more of 4 slots where a slot = official support. Our coach said he had 4 slots but could only offer 2 likelies. I think Admissions controls the # of likelies more carefully, but the coach definitely could “support” 4 applications at admissions. A likely is a physical letter issued by Admissions to the recruit following a review of the completed app. H and P might offer likelies more frequently than the other Ivies since they have no ED and need to compete with schools that do.</p>

<p>I think of a tip as an instance where a coach goes to admissions with a strong student who would normally be admittable anyway and flags the application as someone who can help his program, but not someone he is using one of his slots for. Of course coaches want to use their slots for weaker students, but even that has limitations since a team or recruiting class must as a group meet a certain standard. This is where it gets tricky, you want to make sure you have support and are getting a slot if possible, rather than just simply applying early and getting a tip from the coach.</p>

<p>I also agree that officials are very important, but, if a coach wants you, I think he is going to work to make it happen regardless. I see them as important for the student as anyone. I think the coaches like them so 1) they get some face time with the recruit, 2) the other players get to check out the recruit for fit and 3) once done, I think then the serious discussions start. Without that face time with a student/coach/team, discussions between the student and coach might be considered less reliable. For us official visits were typically arrive at school Thursday after class, spend Thursday night, Friday day and night and depart sometime Sat.</p>

<p>Schools want a recruit to get everything in early so they can get feedback from Admissions early and a committment from the student early and fill their slots. If they need 4 players, they don’t want to wait, they need bodies and the sooner they can get committments the better and getting the apps in and approved by Admissions is a part of that. We were told to have apps in by 10/1, but really didn’t get everything done until a week or two after.</p>

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<p>To simplify my statement. Only submit an early application to a school in which you have a likely letter in hand from before Nov. 1. Apply to them all regular, then switch the one which you like the best/have likely letter from to an early application. That’s pretty much the same thing as “accepting” the likely letter. It’s security for you rather than simply applying and hoping the tip helps.</p>

<p>Again if anyone has anything to add/correct in my posts feel free, but this is my understanding.</p>

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<p>well, my kid was told both by the coach to apply ed and by adcom (via the coach) that her appication would be suitable for ed (or something like that). So ed seems to be a prerequisite in her case, or at her school. I get the feeling a likely letter would not be forthcoming unless she applies ed—though is just me surmising based on converesatonis, not a direct statement by school. The first thing the coach asked in their dialogue her months ago was had she decided what school was her first choice and could she commit to his school. She said Yes. He and she proceeded from there in their dialogue.
So it would be wonderful, per your suggestion, to only apply ed to a school in which we had likely letter in hand, but I don’t think that is how this school/coach works. It’s ed app, then likely letter. I guess you are speaking of schools/situations where the student applies rd, then gets likely letter, then switches to ed. Right?</p>

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<p>Well I mean if you want to take the schools word then fine. Most people who are fully informed know how to deal with these coaches, seems to me as if he/she is hoping your child can get in on her own merit with a little push.</p>

<p>If it was me…I would simply tell the coach. “I need a likely letter before I can commit to your school, this is due to other offers I already have on the table. Sorry, but I need commitment from your side also”</p>

<p>If your daughter is ranked number 1 in the country for w.e she does, she shouldn’t be risking it. But I wouldn’t worry about asking till october…ish.</p>

<p>And I’m talking about all Ivy leagues…there’s not much of a difference between them, these are the only schools where likelys matter. If you want to trust the coach that’s also fine. But by applying ED without a likely, you’re pretty much committing to them without them committing to you.</p>

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<p>are you allowed to apply ed and change to rd (before nov 1)</p>

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<p>2924, what you should be asking for is essentially an “early read” of the application. You send all the materials required for application, including a paper copy of the Common Application/XYZ College Application, complete with essays, letters of rec, gc rec, school profile, transcript, test scores, and special supplements to either the coach, the admissions department or both. In many cases the coach may ask you to send/fax everything directly to him and he will hand deliver the package to admissions. Once all pieces are there, admissions will look at it, WELL BEFORE Nov 1st. If they are going to issue a likely letter, they will probably tell the coach that, so he can tell you, and then you’ll get the letter by mail. </p>

<p>The early read process can take as little as a day, or as long as several weeks. Once you receive the likely letter, you can go ahead and apply in the traditional way, as in, clicking the send button in the Common Application/XYZ College Application program, before the Nov 1st deadline.</p>

<p>Here’s a bit of a gray area: in the case of every likely letter recipient I’ve ever talked with, they were only offered the likely letter if they were agreeing, in advance, to attend the university. The coach may say, “If I go to admissions and ask them for a likely letter for you, do you fully intend to attend our university?” The answer has to be yes, or no letter. I’ve heard rumors of athletes getting a likely letter from more than one school, but I have never met such a rare being. This is not usual.</p>

<p>The admissions office is not at all interested in issuing more athletic likely letters than the exact number they expect to see result in students attending the university. It’s an engagement ring, not a party invitation.</p>

<p>This does not apply to likely letters issued for other reasons. I know students who got likely letters because of high academic achievement, and there were no strings attached, just an invitation to apply, with the implication that the candidate was so strong that they would probably be admitted.</p>

<p>One other gray area: the Nov 1st deadline isn’t always a deadline. For a strong candidate, if a coach at College A knows your first choice is College B, he may say if things come down to the wire, and things don’t work out with College B, let them know, and they can find a likely letter for you before you submit, receive your application after the Nov 1st deadline and consider it with the other EA/ED apps.</p>

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<p>^^the short answer is yes, but you will probably have to do it in writing, to admissions. I don’t think you can change the Common App submission, once it’s been sent.</p>

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<p>We got our “early read” a couple of weeks ago, but it was based on out-of-date transcripts and some SAT scores (not all that were required, missing SAT IIsetc), just informal stuff we sent to the coach at his request. The answer back wa it looks good, apply ed, don’t get in trouble and write good essays.
BTW thanks to everyone on this thread for helping educate me. I thought I understood the process, ha!
I think, based on what you have said, that we should submit a second early read packet with everything in it—hopefully in early september (that is going to be a push).</p>

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<p>Our S changed his RD application to an ED application after the ED deadline by emailing admissions and asking to change it (had to occur before admissions started actually reading the ED applications). I don’t think there would be any value in changing an ED application to a RD application if your D didn’t receive a likely letter. If the coach’s full support for a likely letter didn’t result in her getting in ED, then chances of her getting in RD would seem slim. </p>

<p>I agree with what everyone else has repeated - the most typical course is to say D would love to come to your school and is willing to apply ED, but we need to receive a likely letter in advance of the ED application to make sure she is not closing off options of other schools prematurely.</p>

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<p>After the “early read” they said things were encouraging but made it clear they need good essays etc, so we will have to submit second early read packet with a lot more stuff in it–right? otherwise their likely letter is based on the skimpy stuff we gave the coach awhile ago which did not include up to date transcripts, any essays. It was only a very prelom early read I think based on what you guysa re saying is needed for likely letter—I don’t see how they can issue one without all the info in front of the adcom
I’m beginning to think back to my single days eaons ago when I believed anything I heard too,</p>

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<p>Right - they will need to see complete, up to date, application to review before providing the likely letter.</p>

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<p>I may be misusing the term “early read”. I mean a full review of all the up-to-date application materials by admissions, with the intent of approving or denying a likely letter. I think some coaches ask for materials for their own “early read” to see if an applicant is in the ballpark- no sense in raising false hopes in someone if they aren’t academically a match. Thanks Runners2- you’re catching my slip-ups.</p>

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<p>In our case the coach took the skimpy incomplete package of stuff we’d sent over to admissions to get an “early read”, but it was far from complete and not even accurate.
I just hadn’t thought of the option of a second early read based on full application materials before actually pressing “send” to send it in ed. This coach has made it clear his support is based on our kid promising to marry their school if accepted.</p>

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<p>2924SW, You are better off applying RD and telling the coach that when the likely is in hand, you will change it to ED. Don’t put your eggs in one basket until you have a likely in hand…</p>

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<p>Well that small amount of info would work if he was simply “supporting” your application. But if you want security…you need a real early read and then a likely letter. The coaches “support” means nothing, sounds like a sneaky way to get a good player on the team without issuing a likely.</p>

<p>I think you need to get in your application and make it clear about other options etc by official visit time. By making that clear, it pressures the coach to use a likely on your daughter, which offers you a lot more security than hoping his “support” will get her in.</p>

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<p>Likey letter is the only sure shot to knowing if the coach is completely invested in the athlete, or if he/she is playing the game with several recruits. Just like the coach wants to know if the college is the athlete’s first choice (answer needs to be yes in order to get the likely letter), athlete has every right and definately should ask if the coach will be supporting the athlete to receive a likely letter, and when it is expected in the process. Student-athletes can be very disappointed in this process if they are not assertive about receiving the Likely, not just “suppport or a tip”…</p>

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<p>I have a follow-on question to this discussion. Is there any chance a coach would ask the admissions committee to give “special consideration” to an athlete who is at the bottom of the range for recruited athletes in a sport, but academically at the high end of the pool of admitted students? Of course, I’m not talking about asking for a “likely letter”, since it wouldn’t make sense for the coach to spend that bullet on a lower level athlete. Instead, I was thinking of it as more of a beebee size bullet – on the theory that not much of a “tip” would be needed to admit somewhat who had a really good shot to be admitted on academic credentials alone, so it shouldn’t “cost” the coach (or the school, for that matter) that much to use the slot. I gathered from some of the earlier discussion that a coach might have a list of that sort, but, also, that it probably wouldn’t help the athlete that much in the admissions process. Does anyone have first-hand experience on this issue? BTW, the thread has been extremely helpful to me; thanks to everyone who posted their insights and experiences.</p>

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<p>No first hand experience with this but…I think this depends on the sport, the school and the pool of applicants any given year. In the Ivies, the standard thinking is that coaches need to have a minimum average AI for their recruits, so it is surely possibly that a student with a truly stellar, off-the-charts academic record combined with adequate athletic skills might be someone they would want to recruit in order to bump the average AI for the year. If your sport has a solid benchmark (in rowing this would be a 2K erg test) you could ask the coach what the range has historically been for recruits vis a vis that benchmark to get a sense of where you stand…</p>

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<p>STMoore…Yes, this is definitely a possibility (what I call a “tip”) but I think it depends on the school, the sport, etc. We clearly heard a couple coaches say “I can’t give you a slot, but I can help you at admissions”. This is for a very strong, admittable student that would be able to help the program, but is not a recruit that the program really depends on. Some other coaches were more cut and dried, in that they have a fixed number of slots and that’s it. However, for all these academically demanding schools, I’m sure if the coach fills his slots but if you are still interested in the school and speak to the coach and he believes you can help him at a lower level, I believe the majority would try to help out some way at Admissions. Perhaps the crux of it is how various Admissions departments handle these things. Perhaps some deal in fixed slots and don’t want to get involved in all these mini-recommendations, it would be too tough to manage across many sports.</p>

<p>There is a lot of advice to 2924 about just getting a likely letter and it is true that is the golden ticket. However, our experience is that these are offered selectively. A top recruit would get one, but many middle recruits it seems are asked for a committment apply ED and if they do, the coach will provide his support, often in the form of one of his slots. I don’t know if certain schools use likelies much more often than others and whether the competing LAC’s such as Amherst and Williams use them at all. My understanding is many, many supported recruits never see a likely letter.</p>

<p>Agree with 3Xboys that very strong academics can help, one coach told us that by recruiting our student, it would help him get someone else who was a weak student.</p>

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<p>Don’t want steal the thread, but I’ve always wondered if it was a smart move for a top athlete to reach up to a challenging academic environment due to athletics. Sure you get to say you went to HYP or whereever, but if you struggle academically for 4 years and end up low in your class, is it really a good move?</p>