<p>“I don’t know if it is my call or not, but as the original poster, I’d like to keep this thread focused on the Ivy League process. It seems to be different than other D1 and DIII schools.”</p>
<p>Please forgive me - I did not mean to intrude on your discussion.</p>
<p>The recruiting process for the Patriot, NESCAC, or among academics Georgetown, Stanford and other difficult admits is not a whole lot different from the Ivies…</p>
<p>And actually, it can be very helpful for your Ivy recruiting process to get interest - and most especially an offer of athletic scholarship money - from a school such as Stanford. You can then use that offer as leverage in your quest for a likely letter…We had one Ivy coach tell us to let him know if an athletic scholarship offer came in because that was something he could take to admissions to light a fire under them…</p>
<p>DVC Daisy, it’s so hard to read “tone” in posts, so I’m offering this: I hope you’ll contribute your DIII experiences as the subject comes up, or just start up a thread on the topic. We CCers who are parents of college athletes, prospective athletes, and current or past athlets are so excited to have a forum on CC that I think our intent is to try to keep the threads on subject for the sake of those searching for info. I’m certain no disdain for DIII was intended.</p>
<p>My son was recruited by an Ivy, was wait listed in ED despite having the #2 AI index and ended up happily at a D3 and is thrilled with his fate. At the Ivy
he was one of 15 ED recruits and only 2 gained acceptance. Several coaches from other schools nodded in recognition when they heard our plight. Some ivys have that rep especially in the smaller, smarter sports. Son was devastated for a few days in December, but bounced back and found his place at a #1 LAC and was rookie of the year there and 4-time NCAA champ his freshman year.
Yes—he found the fit.
But having gone through a few naive and painful few months with the Ivy dating game I would never be shy again. My D is going through D3 recruiting as I type and it is a much easier process because I site my son’s experiences to the coaches and they are quite responsive and emphathetic. And by the way there is money in D3 athletics, but that’s for a different thread.
Regarding the Ivy recruting process, the “smaller” the sport, the smaller the pull with admissions. So feel free to lay your cards on the table.
Try to figure out the weight of the coach with Admissions. These are some key issues to consider/ask:</p>
<p>How long has the coach had his job? the longer the better the pull with Admissions.
What is thier ED acceptance rate in the last 5 years? How many were recruited, how many accepted?
How many freshman recruits does the coach want?
How many slots?
Where is my child ranked on your recruiting list?
How many levels of coach support do you have?
ie. you can be fully supported with a slot or a tip; you can be flagged/recommended without a tip, you can be anonymous and walk on.
At Davidson College, a competitive LAC, a coach told me that some of his lower recruits were unflagged as athletes so they wouldn’t be rejected by Admissions.
Note: if you are smarter than you are athletic, the athletic connection could hurt you.
Some food for thought.</p>
<p>BeltwayMom…could you please explain your quote further? Thanks.</p>
<p>“Note: if you are smarter than you are athletic, the athletic connection could hurt you.”</p>
<p>My contact was a coach at top 10 LAC. He said in some schools Admissions may get weary of flagged athletic applications and if they have met their quota ie. they have filled thier allotted slots/tips, a smart applicant that has been flagged by a coach, but has not been given a slot by the coach (presumably because he is smart enough to get in on his own) may actually be rejected by Admissions. So it’s sometimes better to be a little dumber and better in your sport. But when in doubt, ask the coach. One of the coaches we were dealing with had never heard of this scenario. Then again he was 28 years old and was on his second coaching job. Experience counts with Admissions, as I said earlier.</p>
<p>DVC Daisy, as surmised by riverrunner, I meant no offense at all. I’m sorry my comment caused that reaction.</p>
<p>I only meant to suggest that this thread be used to deal with Ivy Coaches/etc and a separate thread be used for DIII, and so on. To me, it just seemed easier to keep conversations focused and easier for those searching for particular information.</p>
<p>I have received my copy of Chris Lincoln’s book and am very interested in getting it read. And I sincerely appreciate all the experiences that have been shared here.</p>
<p>College admissions to these schools are definitely not for the faint of heart, now are they?</p>
<p>To respond:</p>
<p>As beltwaymom said, there is DIII money for athletics. As she also said, that is for another thread.</p>
<p>The book that I mentioned is very valuable for all levels and all types of schools. Ivys included. Also, just my opinion, but for those student-athletes who have top grades/test scores, they may want to cast a wider net than just Ivys which would often include some top tier DIII schools. </p>
<p>So - to restate what I meant in the first post - the book that I mentioned, after reading several books on athletic recruiting, was by far the most informative for all levels and all types of schools. It is worth reading.</p>
<p>DVC Daisy, I agree, for many student athletes, either a DIII or an Ivy can be a great match, and have some similarities: strong emphasis on academics, in tandem with appreciation for competency in athletics. Also, although there is a significant gray area (DIII’s possible ability to grease the skids for some), these are also students who don’t necessarily want/need to “play for money” but want the freedom and support to put academics first, and still compete in athletics. Some DIII LACs offer things no Ivy does. Schools are generally smaller, lots of geographic options, big focus on the undergrad education, etc. </p>
<p>I guess we claim to be staying on topic by encouraging student athletes who are attracted to the Ivies to also consider selective DIII LACs.</p>
<p>We certainly looked at lots of LACs as well as the Ivies for those reasons.</p>
<p>The Ivies and the top DIII LACs aren’t the only schools very interested in student athletes. There are so many talented athletes, male and female, we found often the first thing coaches wanted to know was what kind of student the athlete was. Even with athletic scholarship, for numerous students the larger portion is academic merit aid. (I know, at the forementioned schools everyone is brimming with merit so there is only need aid.)</p>
<p>Schools want to know their athletes can manage their academics with their athletic schedule. They don’t want to worry about eligibility, and educated athletes are good advertising. (Of course this isn’t true of every school and all athletic programs, but it is refreshingly common.)</p>
<p>There are so many wonderful schools out there, I find the fixation on the same few schools we were fixated on 30 years ago too limited for some great students. I remember being afraid to look too far from the correct few. In retrospect, I wish I’d had the guts to step outside the box. I probably would have had a much more fulfilling college experience.</p>
<p>Well…this thread just happens to be about a certain group.</p>
<p>Sure, it’s about a certain group. It just seems whenever this group is the center of attention (frequently), even when focusing on athletics, the tone somehow manages to convey that only certain schools care about education. The condescension gets tiring, I guess…sorry.</p>
<p>I did not mean to inject any manner of condescension. I started this thread specifically concerning how the timing for talks with Ivy coaches go because my Kiddo has a specific interest in a specific Ivy school and we have had no previous experience in that regard.</p>
<p>I know she has opportunities at other LAC schools of high academic caliber and we are keeping those options open. It is just that in the case of this particular school (the Ivy school), the ED is binding and we need help navigating how to get our ducks in a row. </p>
<p>That was the sole impetus for the narrow focus of the thread in my original post. It was not meant as a disregard for other schools. It was not meant as an elitist approach in any manner. Simply, it was an Ivy school and how their athletic recruiting works that I needed help with here.</p>
<p>For the other schools, I have found other threads that are helpful. But when I come to this one, I really am looking for Ivy-specific information. I think it is nice to know that information is collected here and not interspersed among conversations comparing/contrasting/discussing other conferences, other divisions, etc. </p>
<p>I was just looking for a rather compulsive approach to compartmentalizing my research/information.</p>
<p>Please accept that I intended no disrespect or nose-thumbing to any other conference, division, athlete, or parent. I was only trying to address a very specific need of my own.</p>
<p>treemaven, </p>
<p>I was surprised by your original “Ivy only” comment because I’ve never considered thread starters to be in charge of subsequent posts. I’ve often found deviations during a thread far more helpful than harmful. With individual post searches possible, I don’t consider them a problem.</p>
<p>HRSFRM, as someone who has spent a LOT of time on CC wading through threads that have branched off in a zillion unhelpful and off-topic directions, I think trying to keep a thread on-topic is a great idea. Not every thread needs to answer all questions. People can easily start new, specific threads since there is plenty of space in this roomy little athletic recruits subforum.</p>
<p>Sure, 3Xboys. I haven’t been here long, but have lots of experience in the same format on a couple of other forums. I guess is didn’t see it as a problem in this thread, but I can see it’s a sore point.</p>
<p>I think that understanding an institution’s behavior with respect to likely letters requires consideration of the National Letter of Intent (NLI) process used by all D1 schools to bind athletic scholarship recipients. For many sports, including basketball, football, soccer and track and field, a D1 school can sign a recruit to an NLI before admissions decisions are made (and in the case of basketball, before applications must be submitted). This commits the school to giving the scholarship to the recruit, and commits the recruit to play at the school. This is contingent on a yes from the admissions office, but of course by the time an NLI is offered and signed, failure to admit is very rare. The NLI gives colleges a chance to “show the money” (literally) to a scholarship athlete.</p>
<p>Ivies do not, as I understand it, use the NLI process because there are no athletic scholarships in the Ivy League. This puts Ivy schools at a disadvantage in recruiting because they have no official way to assure a recruit that admission is likely other than a coach’s promises. The likely letter fixes this problem.</p>
<p>If I were an Ivy school, I would focus my likely letters on candidates who are really extraordinary or need to be wooed away from a school offering a scholarship/NLI commitment. If I was the coach using my influence with the admissions office, I’d want some kind of assurance that the player would attend the school and play in return for the letter.</p>
<p>As an Ivy athletic recruit, how does relying on a likely letter, instead of an RD complete with a firm FA and possibly scholarship offer, affect the student who needs financial aid? Suppose D wants to attend Harvard, which does not have ED/EA. Let’s say she tells them they’re her first choice and submits her application early. The coach supports her, so she receives a likely and even a FA pre-read. What’s to protect her from a poor final FA offer? Harvard’s reputation? She can’t cover her back by applying ED or RD to other Ivies, since she will be unlikely to be admitted without coach support, which she will not receive unless she commits to them as her first choice, which she can’t in good faith do.</p>
<p>Or how about another Ivy which has ED. The mantra for other students who really need FA is don’t apply ED, yet coaches need an ED commitment.</p>
<p>GFG can you ask admissions if they will commit to the early FA offer? Or can they at least tell you your EFC would be “no more than x”? </p>
<p>I agree, it puts you in a very vulnerable position in negotiating FA.</p>