Tips for Evaluating Greek Life on potential campuses

Parents Forum
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<p>Since college fit is so important, I thought I would offer a few tips on how to evaluate a campus Greek Life. This thread is not about whether or not your D or S should join, or what will happen to them if they do or don't. Because many schools have Greek Life, parents who have not been in college for 20+ years may have concerns about what it means to be on a campus with fraternities and sororities. Here is the place to share how parents and students were able to determine the nature of Greek life. If this thread doesn't devolve like many other threads before it, maybe we can share collective wisdom about how to help said S or D in recruitment, etc. Much, but not all of this will pertain to all forms of Greek Life. NHPC and multicultural Greek organizations share many of the same characteristics, but have different traditions. Those who hae experience with those orgs are strongly encouraged to share wisdom. </p>

<p>The first tip I have is to check the data. It is good to know what percentage of Greek Life there is on campus. On a campus with a large Greek scene, the concerns will be, do parties revolve around Greek life, and will my D or S have to join in order to have a social life? Another concern would be, if my D or S is interested in joining, then how exclusive is it?</p>

<p>Once you know the numbers, dig around to look at the people. Most colleges have a Greek Life page. Click on pictures of the individual chapters. While a picture paints an incomplete picture, you can get a feel for the participants. In schools where a large percentage of students go Greek, you will find houses full of people who state that they would never hae gone Greek anywhere else but X school. That may be obvious from the photos (where not everyone looks like a model) or you may just see thousands of smiling people wearing bid day shirts. I feel safe saying that the larger the Greek Life, the more diversity you will find within chapters. A small Greek life can still be diverse, just take a look at the photos. As an aside, at campuses where there are 100+ pledge classes, it is impossible to make judgements on houses, label them the jock house or the blonde house. There are just too many members not to have diversity. (By diversity, I don't necessarily mean racial or ethnic diversity)</p>

<p>Don't be afraid to have your D or S call the Greek Life office and ask about costs. Dues and extra fees vary greatly from school to school. When on campus visiting, talk to Greek students about how much it realistically costs each semester. Dues and housing costs are one thing, but countless event t-shirts, craft projects, away formals, clothing for theme mixers, etc add up. It will make a difference if chapters tend to throw a party every week or once a semester. In a few cases, living in the house is cheaper than living in a dorm and there may be a cook who serves tastier food than the cafeteria. </p>

<p>Next, ask about divisions among Greek and non-Greek members. Are the paries open to everyone, or are they mainly mixers? Are the only cool campus parties at fraternities, or do non-Greek students throw house/club/dorm shindigs? Greek life may only be 15% at a school, but if the only social life seems to exist in a place where you are not feel welcome, then it may be a long 4 years. Similarly, it may be possible to benefit from the active social scene without paying a penny in dues. Of course, your D or S would miss out on the sense of community offered. </p>

<p>When crunching the numbers, check the grade reports. Most Greek Life, or Student Activity centers post grade point averages. It is even better when they show pledge GPA and overall Greek GPA. If you see a low pledge GPA it may mean that pledgeship will be extremely time-consuming and that the chapter doesn't care about finishing high on that report. If they stress mandatory study tables, offer financial incentives for pledges, etc you will know where academics stand. This will also help D or S know if they are at a disadvantage when going through recruitment. A top GPA house will often make cuts first based on hs or 1st semester GPA. This can also lead to the discussion of how heavy the course load is recommended during pldgeship. If your student is planning to carry 16 credits while pledging and marching in the band, then a conversation about time management and GPA expectations is in order. </p>

<p>Examine how the administration and the Greeks get along. In some places, Greek Life is celebrated and encouraged. They have dedicated staff and on campus advisors. In some schools, you will see a crackdown on fraternity parties and harsh punishments coming from the administration. It very well may be that the administration has cause to crack down and that the Greek community on that campus will emerge better. In some cases, it results in a lot of unhappy students and alumni who pull financial support from the college. It is just a good idea to see the current state of affairs. </p>

<p>Finally, pay attention to the reports of hazing, drinking, crime statistics on the campus. Not every Greek house is Animal House, nor are all Greek members destined for sainthood. There is not a single national chapter that condones hazing, yet it still occurs. Every chapter has required training on alcohol awareness but people still die or are injured as a result of drinking. Wild parties with too much alcohol can be a dangerous place for sexual misconduct. Pay attention to it and talk to your D or S about the dangers. Stress the importance of staying true to oneself, make them aware of the results. Sites like stophazing dot org are a good place to start. Explore sites like greek chat dot com risk management pages. </p>

<p>I hope this helps and leads to further discussion. I would also love to share hints on preparing for recruitment, but there is a wonderful website already created for that. I will say that if your D, in particular, is interested in Greek life at a competitive school, this summer will required prep work, especially finding letters of recommendations for all chapters on the campus, creating a resume, cleaning up Facebook pages, and shopping for recruitment clothes even if it is in your closet).</p>

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<p>Looking into housing can be a good place to start. Among the various options:

[ul][<em>]Off-campus Greek houses (e.g. UCLA)
[</em>]On-campus Greek houses (e.g. Northwestern)
[<em>]Housing for frats but not sororities, or vice versa (e.g. WUStL)
[</em>]No separate housing for either frats or sororities (e.g. Rhodes)[/ul]</p>

<p>Another thing to consider might be when students are expected to pledge. Some colleges do it during a student’s first semester (e.g. USC), some do it during a student’s second semester (e.g. Yale), and some do it during a student’s sophomore year (e.g. Muhlenberg).</p>

<p>For determining how dominant Greek organizations are on campus, it is often a prudent move to check out what themed housing options (arts house, language house, LGBT/ally house, etc.) are available; these serve as alternate (and often milder) sources of social life on campus.</p>

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<p>You know, that’s a good post, MizzBee.</p>

<p>Very informative and balanced on what becomes a relatively controversial subject on this board a few times a year. But that post is actually useful for a student.</p>

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<p>I hope so, poetgrl. I have received so much great advice on this site, I thought it important to “give back”. Hopefully this advice can help someone make a decision on a school, whether they are Greek or not.</p>

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<p>My tip is to look at the campus newspaper, which is probably online. Do some searches, and look at a few year’s worth of articles. It will give you some insight into the role Greek life plays on campus, what controversies and scandals (if any) there have been, etc. Read articles as well as the comments on the articles.</p>

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<p>Good tip on sorority summer prep. A clients’s D rushed and ultimately pledged at SMU (about 10 yrs ago now) and was fortunate to have an aunt who knew the ropes and helped her assemble all the letters. An extra thing there which may be different from other places (may have changed there too) was the expectation of personalized “swag” to hand out at visits. That is, the girl who was rushing had various items printed up with her name and other cute things to gift to girls in the houses.</p>

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<p>By contrast, a system in which there is simply no NEED for sorority “summer prep” - or in which letters of recommendation are nice but not necessary, and a girl who knows nothing about the system can just start up the process when she arrives at campus – is likely to be a lot more “chill” (as the kids say) than a system in which there is a lot of focus on quasi-recruiting new girls over the summer, letters of rec are mandatory, and girls who come from non-sorority backgrounds (first gen college, other countries, mother went to college but wasn’t in a Greek system) are at a disadvantage.</p>

<p>To the “swag” concept (which I’ve NEVER heard of, but doesn’t surprise me at SMU) - another new thing that I’ve heard of that I really liked was having all the girls who were going through the process wear identical t-shirts with “Rush 20xx” or whatever. That took away some of the more easily identifiable money / class markers and put girls from all backgrounds on a more level playing ground.</p>

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<p>^That is not common, saintfan, (because most panhellenics would throw a fit) but it is not uncommon at competitive schools for PNMs (potential new members) to make very professional resumes with photo shoots. That may seem unusual for a student at Northwestern, but perfectly normal at UT-Austin. </p>

<p>I also want to stress that attending a school that requires recs means that without them, you will be at a disadvantage. The good news is that almost all areas have alumnae panhellenic organizations with people willing to write recs. And even those with recs (and legacy connections) are not guaranteed a spot. If the campus uses a system called RFM, most young ladies that keep all options open that have the grades and ECs will be placed somewhere, though it may not be their dream sorority. That doesn’t mean that their won’t be those cut for grades, ECs, rude or unusual behavior during recruitment or (especially at deferred recruitment) a reputation that exists before recruitment.</p>

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<p>I also love the identical t-shirt thing as well. There have also been a movement toward no-frills recruitment for active members as well, whcih saves money for everyone involved in Greek life, rather than recommending everyone order X dress for day 1 or require expensive decorations purchased by the chapter. </p>

<p>If the goal of the university and the greeks on campus is inclusiveness, you will see less emphasis on recs, etc.
However, very active Greek campuses will also stress the need to keep an open mind.</p>

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<p>Generally speaking, I do think it is a fair observation that Southern and / or Texan Greek life tends to be different from Northern and / or Upper Midwestern Greek life.</p>

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<p>You may also want to ask the Greek Life office (usually under Res Life) about their pledging policies, in terms of how many students are allowed to join chapters. </p>

<p>For example, at my daughter’s college if 450 girls decide to go through recruitment, and there are 9 sororities, then each sorority is required to accept 50 new pledges. Theoretically there should be a place for everyone. This does not guarantee that you will be offered a bid, but usually about 90% of the girls who enter the process choose to stay in it until the end and wind up pledging a sorority.</p>

<p>OTOH, my son’s college put a strict limit on the number of pledges their sororities could have. As a result, although 300 girls entered the recruitment process, the sororities could only accept a total of 150 of them. This means half the girls who went through pledging were ultimately rejected. (I blame the college for this, BTW, not the sororities).</p>

<p>Fraternity rush is usually a lot less formal than sorority recruitment, so I don’t know how the numbers work there.</p>

<p>If you think Greek life is something you want to participate in, ask the Res Life office about that college’s recruitment policies to be sure you aren’t walking into a situation where the number of students who can participate is limited.</p>

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<p>And to add to that, it is often difficult to read through the numbers. If 400 PNMs start recruitment and only 300 get a bid that always doesn’t mean that 100 were dropped. Some drop out after being dropped from a favorite house, some are found to be ineligible based on GPA and others find it is not worth the effort. I can only think of one school where a PNM can go all the way through pref and still not end up in a house and that is Indiana, based on the practice of allowing each chapter to take a finite number based on number of beds (bed rush) as opposed to setting quota based on the number of PNMs at preference.</p>

<p>Fraternity recruitment is a totally different animal, and I still can’t understand the decision factors. In general, recs don’t matter much.</p>

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<p>Personally, I think it might be useful to have a thread where different college Greek systems are aligned on some dimension of ‘intense’ to ‘chill’ but I can see that might turn ugly fast :-)</p>

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<p>I think that would be a good idea. On another website there is a thread that lists where recs are needed. That is a good place to start for the “intense” places. </p>

<p>I agree that it could get ugly fast as well.</p>

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<p>Something that I learned (again) last night:
Ask around. If a college or university is actively working to change it’s image what you find on the web sites might not match a student’s current “on the ground” experiece. Change may be in process, but if kids and families who you know and respect are coming home a breaks and summer with stories that make your hair curl and/or transfering out that is valuable information - even if it contradicts what is posted on the school panhellenic web site.</p>

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<p>“My tip is to look at the campus newspaper, which is probably online.”</p>

<p>This is good advice for learning about student life in general. As with all other sources, it should be taken with a grain of salt – man-bites-dog stories sell, even in the college press. But if certain themes come up over and over in pieces by different writers, that can shed a lot of light.</p>

<p>IMHO, it’s also instructive if you find bad writing and grammatical mistakes in the flagship campus newspaper. It shouldn’t happen, but it does.</p>

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<p>If the school is in a college town, sometimes looking in the local newspaper is a good idea. If a fraternity loses it’s charter due to hazing (for example) there is often a much more complete picture of what happened in the local paper vs. what might be reported in the university newspaper. In larger cities this won’t make the paper, but in towns that revolved around the university it will.</p>

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<p>Very true, blueiguana.</p>

<p>I did hypothetical research at our state land-grant which was one of D’s safeties. I looked up all the grades, standing for accepting freshmen, etc. on the university sponsored Panhellenic web page. D’s double/triple legacy house (grandmother at a different school, great grandmother-namesake and great-aunt at same school) was listed as middle of the pack but a bit suspect on grades. I googled and found in the local media that the house was the subject of University and National Chapter disciplinary action for underage drinking and hazing just this past February. This is not readily apparent on the school Panhellenic page - or if it was I missed it. I also found a greek chat entry which talked about girls still pledging post rush when they were disciplined LAST TIME because the house was fairly high status and desirable. Apparently, some young women would forgo accepting a bid through the regular rush process to get in this house later because it wasn’t allowed to participate in the school sponsored rush process. Firmer sanctions have been taken, it appears. Ultimately, my point is to confirm that the more sources of information the better and local small-town press can be a good one.</p>

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<p>bumping this as the opening post contains some great information -</p>

<p>Also, posting to re-up my previous comment about gathering information from many sources and triangulating to get a true picture of the institution and chapter in question. A client today volunteered out of the blue a story of her niece who, as it turns out, is a member of a chapter which has been under repeated disciplinary action at our state land-grant. Client is facebook friend with the niece and has been viewing her public photo posts and hearing her stories first hand. The niece loves her house and client says her sister loves it because the niece seems to be popular and is in a house with “prestige”. Client who has a daughter and 2 sons in their 20s is dumbfounded. </p>

<p>What I would take away from this is look at the story, look at the source and between general anecdotal information, school and chapter web site research, local media and first hand accounts a picture will start to take shape. Alone this story might be just anectotal, but taken together one has to think that there’s something to it. How I would have used this information is that had my daughter ended up at this school and been looking into rush I would have said “no” to this, her legacy house, and directed her towards researching other options.</p>