<p>Lord, I am so tired of 16 and 17-year-olds posting on college websites about whether one school is more prestigous or has better name recognition than another.... These poor little kiddies seem to be basing their whole college decision on this aspect. I posted in reply to one such kid wavering between two highly ranked universities. "Neither college will guarantee you a job in the real world, and in the real world employees do not hire in a hierarchical fashion, taking Harvard grads over Yale, over Brown, over Rice, over Cornell, nor do grad schools choose their students that way. The "real" world operates on relationships and recommendations and experiences. Now, decide where YOU want to experience the next four years of YOUR life and go from there. " (I'm just quoting myself because I'm too lazy to type it again.) But GAWD! How did these kids get so linear? What ever happened to "follow your bliss?" What makes these kids feel like they have to decide on a career when they are 17-years-old? What has happened to our kids to make them so conservative and risk-averse?</p>
<p>I think some of it is due to which circles they run in. The mentality of that thinking that I came to learn about when I joined CC and read the student posts, plus meeting people who live in certain regions or communities is just so different from where my kids grew up. My kids were not concerned with prestige or rankings. They do like challenging learning environments. But the name brand thing is not big in our neck of the woods. When you think about it, the kids who are comparing rankings and which Ivy is better or best, likely live where kids wear some designer jeans or have designer pocketbooks and the brand of their car that they get at sixteen is something to write home about. </p>
<p>Where we live, I think the most expensive "designer" brand would be Abercrombie, and Birkenstock and no girls have designer handbags and if a kid has a car in high school it is either a hand me down, a used car or nothing overly expensive if new. Few kids are applying to the top schools in the land and even the few that do are not comparing their college lists with anyone and these conversations I read from kids on this site are NOTHING like around here. I recall when I found this site and showed it to D1 and showed her the student posts, such as the "what are my chances" ones or the ones talking of prestige, she simply could not relate. And she is a very good student who did land at an Ivy but the idea of "wanting Ivy" was not her line of thinking. She had certain characteristics she wanted in a school and ONE of these was a challenging school with motivated students but she has many other criteria and the name factor wasn't the thing for her and she never ever was aware of rankings either. If you asked her where her school was ranked, she couldn't tell you. So, I think some of this college talk and elitism way of thinking goes hand in hand with some kids' backgrounds in other areas, be it designer brand jeans or pocketbooks or cars. While my kids have friends in other regions who have lived those lifestyles and they like these kids a lot, they'd be the first to tell you how radically different their home communities and environments were to where their own upbringing took place and the experiences of those kids are night and day to their home friends. I grew up in suburbia and have a clue of what some of that is like, though it wasn't that "ultra" with respect to college issues, but I am glad my kids grew up in rural Vermont, in part, because this whole competitive mentality just was not present. I do not mean this to offend but simply pointing out the differences in background that may contribute to the prestige line of thinking with regard to colleges, as it is not that different to the mentality with other prestige name brands in certain kids' lives.</p>
<p>I don't know the answer to your questions but I've had similar moment of despair in my dark afternoon teatimes of the soul on CC. There are so many who are so starkly "vocational" in their outlook. In one of the Law School threads, there's a high school senior asking about when to start studying for the LSAT. Argh.</p>
<p>My son is a HS senior & a "free spirit" in the sense that he hasn't a clue about what he wants to do or be yet. He loves learning for the sake of learning & is hoping to find a school with an environment that encourages the full discussion & exploration of ideas & I hope he finds it! He searched carefully for schools where he feels he'll be happy & we still await decisions but he didn't choose them based on "prestige" or any "ranking."
I agree it does depend on the circles the student hangs out in; my son doesn't discuss the schools he applied to with others. We shall wait & see how things evolve.</p>
<p>When a HS senior is starting to worry about LSATs, s/he needs to get a life. These are the very kids who graduate from law school only to find they hate the profession & haven't a clue as to what they really want from life & what they want to DO for a living. (I've met several of them in law school & in the profession.)</p>
<p>"My son is a HS senior & a "free spirit" in the sense that he hasn't a clue about what he wants to do or be yet."</p>
<p>Ditto for my college grad D! (and myself, for that matter....)</p>
<p>I have been helping a lot of transfer students, reviewing their essays and such. I have to say I am demoralized when I see them putting in their essays that they want to go to school X (always an Ivy) because it is prestigious. I shudder to think how an adrep responds to such a reason to transfer. Most of these students are at excellent schools already and seem to be <em>looking</em> for reasons to be dissatisfied because they have not been able to let go of the prestige-mongering.</p>
<p>I think (or at least hope) that this phenomenon is rare. I think most kids who once wanted HYPS and land elsewhere "get over it" and enjoy where they are. But for some.... I wonder if they are the same folks who grow up to buy cars they can't afford, houses bigger than they need and fill the closets with designer clothes bought on credit cards for which they can barely handle the minimum payment....</p>
<p>For me it was scary to have a summer internship where everyone at the firm went to one of 7 schools and this is the case for the whole industry. I have 2 uncles who lost their jobs and havn't found new ones in more than a year. Yet my parents and their friends who went to ivies seem more secure and able to offer their kids things like great schools. Every magazine cover tells us how much harder it's going to be than it was for our parents. I go to a school where it's painfully obvious how much bgetter preparedkids from other countries, especially Asian ones, are. Making the cut at a top college having busted your butt for as long as you can remember is incredibly hard, even with top grades and scores, is real life easier? When you grow up places like NYC, you see the huge divide between the haves and the have nots. In all honesty, most kids I know are terrified of having a degree from a mediocre school.</p>
<p>We went down to Rice this weekend to see our daughter in a performance. We got to meet her new boyfriend, who is a 2nd year med student in Houston.<br>
This young man is from Wisconsin. He applied to a number of undergraduate schools as a music major (piano- espec jazz). He got a number of acceptances, but chose Loyola-New Orleans because it offered him a great scholarship. He got his undergraduate degree in music, but took the science courses he needed to get into med school. He got into med school just fine. Through all this, he worked (and still works) gigs at restaurants and on cruise ships to help pay for his education. Prestige was never an issue. I have to admit, I was very impressed.</p>
<p>In addition to LSAT questions by high schoolers I'm also struck by the interest in i-banking (a job where you will eventually work 80 hours a week but can make a ton of money...does that sound like fun to you?) by 17 year old kids in the business forum. What school is best for i-banking, Wharton or Harvard? Is my life ruined for banking if I go to Georgetown? Can I get into bulge bracket firms (??) from UCLA?</p>
<p>suze, what kind of internship did you do?</p>
<p>When I was a speaker at a HS, to talk about being an attorney, the ONLY question the kids were interested in was how much money you can/do make. They didn't care at all about the quality of life issues I raised, the prep you'd have to do, the working conditions & hours (really tough for the 1st ____ years as the most junior person), etc.</p>
<p>When I was in law school, the 1st semester, folks kept trumpeting the schools that had waitlisted them. One kid packed up after her 1st week of law school (no doubt after her parents had paid for the whole semester or year) & left for Cornell since her name just cleared the waitlist! Was she any happier or more successful? I don't honestly think so, but who knows?</p>
<p>The folks I know who are "doing well" have degrees from many different institutions--some public, some private, some ivy & many not. So many of these kids have no idea what it's like to WORK, much less work 80+ hours/week for months & years on end.</p>
<p>Suze, it's the preparation and the execution that matters more than the "label" of the school to a large degree. The value of a "better" school, imo, is largely in the effect of working with a challenging peer group, not the label per se. But achievement, work habits, and character are going to determine a lot too. What a lot of students regard as a "medicore" school is laughable: if it's not Ivy/Stanford/AWS.</p>
<p>
I still think that the prestige hunt is a regional thing. Most kids around the country are not targeting the top 10 or 20 or even 100 schools on USNWR. The biggest factor in economic security is whether or not someone achieves a college degree, rather than where they get it. I wish these kids could step back and see that it's not the 'getting in' part that's hard -- it's the 'getting out' part (for most schools.) Just getting the degree is a wonderful accomplishment.</p>
<p>um yeah
I am terrifically excited that my daughter is graduating college this spring.
I never graduated from high school, although I did get my GED fairly easily, and my husband graduated from high school with a D avg, so to have my kids doing so well, makes me very :)</p>
<p>I'll throw my 2 cents in - I think the hunt for prestige stems from the fact that the college admission process has become a competitive sport. This sport is not judged by goals or runs, but by how high up the school you bag is iin the USNWR rankings. And the world series is the money you can make afterwards. </p>
<p>This seems to be felt more in areas / families / peer groups where the values are less on things like virtue, honesty, or - god forbid, "doing the right thing". In such groups, the value is on things. I see the same thing on the job, where sports analogies appear to be the sole context for discussing business activities. </p>
<p>How many of the kids talk about community service as a checklist item for their college resume's, rather than as a service? </p>
<p>It's so sad - they can miss out on so much. On the other hand, once they're into their final choice, hopefully they get over the prestige and truly enjoy where they end up. </p>
<p>Note: I do not imply that all kids who get into top schools do it for this reason. Obviously many want the challenge of the academics. But you all have to admit that if you did a word search for "prestige" on this forum, you'd get way too many hits!</p>
<p>For so many kids the most-passed-down family tradition is conspicuous (and often "prestigious") consumption.</p>
<p>Hopefully this generation will have a change of heart down the road. It's happened before.</p>
<p>I think that you can attribute the attitudes of both parents and student posters to the fact that we have a very self-selective community of people participating here. Attitudes and conversation like the OP cited happen in very, very few places outside our gated community</p>
<p>Originaloog, You are exactly right (love the CC as gated community image). I am sometimes stunned when I talk to non-CC families and students. What? They're NOT applying to Harvard? No Yale? No angst over college admissions at all? What the h*ll is wrong with these people!
LOL!</p>
<p>Let's face it, our kids live in a society where wealth and money are seen as what makes a person. How can we blame the kids when we as adults glorify people such as Trump, and idolize the wealthy businessmen, movie stars and entertainers? In this country, the brand name is what's viewed as important, and college, unfortunately, is no different.</p>
<p>I always thought of "The Donald" as a blowhard boob!</p>
<p>Let's face it, our kids live in a society where wealth and money are seen as what makes a person. How can we blame the kids when we as adults glorify people such as Trump,...</p>
<p>I don't live in Hollywood- nor do we watch much tv so I can't say that my kids ascribe to those values
who you are doesn't depend on wealth, but how you treat others.
This is only one organization that my daughters high school is involved with- she is looking forward to helping other communities across the globe.</p>
<p>To quote Tom Brokaw- anyone can make money, it is much harder to make a difference.
<a href="http://www.globalta.org/%5B/url%5D">http://www.globalta.org/</a>
[quote]
Mission</p>
<p>The Global Technology Academy's mission is to teach youth in developing communities worldwide how to compete in a global information technology based economy through, but not limited to, receiving previously owned computers, software, networking technology and training. Training is defined as refurbishing information technology equipment, teaching processes involved, and learning how to be socially responsible and sensitive to environmental, economic and cultural issues of the community, in a sustainable and self sufficient manner.
Basic Program</p>
<p>This program has three key points it supports:
Computer Training: Provides refurbished and fully functional computers;
Network Installation: Teaches networking and lab management skills;
Refurbishing Skills: Builds competency in the refurbishing process.
The foundational values supported by the program are to create:
Sustainability: Insure longevity of the learning and equipment;
Capacity Building: Leverage human potential of the disenfranchised;
Independence: Activities which foster local control and individual freedom
[/quote]
</p>