Forget prestige; get real.

Parents Forum
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<p>Let's face it: college admissions have reached a peak in terms of ridiculousness. The existence of College Confidential proves that the admissions process has become too competitive, a process requiring strategies of ingenuity, sometimes rote intelligence, and, unfortunately, sometimes money. It seems like an exorbitant amount of money is wasted on college admissions, what with everyone spending hundreds of dollars on applications and then money on tutors, SAT classes, private admissions advisors, and that gobs of hours, too are wasted on perfecting the "you" on paper. </p>

<p>I have a dual purpose in writing this. First of all, I want to bring those of you with your head in the clouds back to earth. Because of how (outrageously) competitive admissions are, most people can forget colleges that have garnered an excessive amount of prestige. DON'T DISGREGARD PUBLIC SCHOOLING! Sure, they're not Harvard, but I don't see the huge difference, for most kids. My brother goes to Harvard and I to University of Michigan, and he and I are having equally enjoyable times. The thing is, though, he's kind of a math genius, having completed most of the undergrad math curriculum at Yale before applying to colleges. That's why Harvard is good for him - they have an extremely specialized and demanding math program for the top top math students, for kids who already have very specific needs and goals academically. </p>

<p>For the kids who don't have that, like, say, me, but do have interesting academic and extracurricular backgrounds and are looking to pursue their interests further in depth, a large public university is just the medicine. Obviously I'm (second reason) trolling for U of M since it's my school and I adore it, but I feel like I can generalize. </p>

<p>I'm trying to appeal to those of you who perhaps are very smart, very assertive, and know you want to be active in college life, somehow, but are not yet sure what. I'm trying to appeal to the biochem kids who want to do research at a place with top funding but perhaps haven't yet isolated a perfect cure for encephalitis. I'm definitely trying to appeal to the prospective thesbians and musicians who are accomplished, but perhaps haven't been on Broadway. I'm appealing to those of you who write poetry, but maybe never have had someone to critically analyze your work. </p>

<p>Big public universities are for motivated academics. Oh, and they'll give you a lot of money. (Tell your kids.)</p>

<p>Fin and best wishes,
Frecklybeckly</p>

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<p>Frecklybeckly:</p>

<p>A great message to share for the holidays. Thanks for posting this reminder that there are many, many great universities! U Mich is certainly one of them!</p>

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<p>I totally agree. Prestige isn't everything. (Yes, I'm another Wolverine vouching for Michigan. It's truly a wonderful place for those who give it a chance.)</p>

<p>(Okay. I love the break, but I'm really beginning to miss Ann Arbor and school. Is there something wrong here? ;))</p>

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<p>I am glad to hear you are so happy at U of M. Please remember that for many kids U of M is a reach and has a level of prestige and academics they hope to attain.</p>

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<p>Newsflash: UMichigan is extremely prestigious and the 2nd best public school in the country.</p>

<p>It's not like you're going to University of Mississippi or anything.</p>

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<p>Oh brother. My point wasn't to say U of M isn't prestigious - it was to persuade the illusional to consider a broader spectrum of schools.</p>

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<p>Gawwwwhh... (We know Michigan is prestigous!) That's not what she meant. I'm sure she's speaking more so in terms of CC. Many people on this board and elsewhere are obsessed with getting into a place such as Harvard or Yale (<em>plug in the name of another school</em>), and if they don't, their lives are ruined. She was just saying that there is more out there than just one school.</p>

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<p>...and this is from a woman whose life would just END if she didn't get into Yale....</p>

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<p>frecklybeckly~</p>

<p>What a wonderful message from a wonderful gal! Those of us who experienced last year with you are so very delighted for and proud of you for what you have accomplished and for your remarkable grace and resilience. What an inspiration you are, sweetie, and how kind and thoughtful of you to come back and share your newfound perspective with others. I so hope they choose to listen! love, ~berurah</p>

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<p>Freckly,
My S is just the type of kid you mentioned ("very smart, very assertive, and know you want to be active in college life") and he is having the best time ever at Berkeley! He lights up when people ask him how college is and says "it's better than I could have ever imagined." He loves the big campus, the endless opportunities, the big names who visit (he's met national and state politicians and works on a paid internship for a local politician), the outstanding professors, the brilliant Teaching Assistants, the history, culture and atmosphere of his public university. For certain kids, big universities can work out just fine. Glad to hear this is the case for you, too! :)</p>

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<p>Well, fortunately it did not end! I was perusing the merit award thread today and I really was thinking that I could only recommend an Ivy league school to the really rich (the $$ don't matter) or the really poor (will get financial aid meeting 100% of need). I realize there are many in the middle that are making huge financial sacrifices to attend an Ivy league school, but those merit aid packages are so attractive and the schools so good - I guess this is just the perspective of the guy writing the checks! I personally know many kids that passed up substantial merit awards to attend a "more prestigious" school, much to the dismay of their parents. </p>

<p>Another impression I got from reading through the merit award thread was that these kids are being actively wooed, if not recruited in the same sense that a top athlete is recruited. (This is a common CC theme - athletic recruiting is unfair to academically-minded students). But I see big financial awards going to students solely on the basis of high SAT scores, and other big packages awarded through competitions. I think it is great, and is an effective way to round out the student body at a good but not top 25 school. </p>

<p>As for University of Michigan, I graduated 30 years ago and was just reviewing their common dataset and find it a bit puzzling. the U of M admits something like 60% of applicants, yet the stats of enrolled students seem incredibly high. Not sure how they do it.</p>

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<p>^^ It's because of the size, mostly.</p>

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<p>UMich also has this special program for people who want to do research. I forget it's name....but it is a great opportunity. Great school, wonderful experiences can be had at UMich and UC Berkeley etc..</p>

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<p>Agree the public U's have much to offer.</p>

<p>Tone of this thread is only public ivys warrant consideration.</p>

<p>Disagree--other state U's (including Mssissippi I'd bet), offer a fab education and experience too. Get real...</p>

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<p>I completely agree. That was my original intention in posting - unfortunately, some other posters seem to have misinterpreted and twisted my words.</p>

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<p>Don't mind us, we're just a contentious bunch.</p>

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<p>Let's make it clear, though, that private universities have something to offer. The experience at an Ivy League school and your local State U. are completely different, really:
4-year housing versus 1-year
smaller classes versus large lecture halls
advising versus sink-or-swim
smaller (5-10k) versus large (20k)
different types of students</p>

<p>and so on. I'm not saying a top-5 school is better than UM or UCB or whatever, I'm just saying that they are different, and that the education is different.</p>

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<p>My son is at Indiana University and loves it there. Of course, as a music student, he really was more interested in IU than in any of the Ivies, because they are not as highly ranked in music (or at least not in his specialty). However, he likes his classes and is happier there than he would be at an Ivy, for a variety of reasons. Yes, he does have grad students teaching some of his classes, but they are not all huge classes. Some are quite small. And he is not limited to one year of housing. Advising is available; perhaps you have to seek it out more, but it is there. And he is finding it a very supportive school, not the impersonal place he was told it might be. There is also an Honors College for those who want more mental stimulation and academic vigor.</p>

<p>Is the experience different from that of any Ivy? Most likely. Is it worse? No, not for my son anyway.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
he likes his classes and is happier there than he would be at an Ivy

[/quote]

I hate to sound cranky....but:
On CC, we hear this type of thing all the time...I don't mean about an ivy per se, but about how fortunate it is that a child got into school X as opposed to school Y, because s/he is much happier at X than s/he ever could have been at Y...how fortunate that things worked out that way, etc. How 'bout the possibility that they would have been happy at either school, maybe for the same reasons or maybe for different reasons. One can't possibly know what another fork in the road would have led to...and the vast majority of kids end up being eminently satisfied at their schools. It's like falling in love...maybe some people believe that there's only one person for each of us in the universe, but I'm not that fatalistic. And I don't think we can possibly know about how something that we haven't experienced would have worked out. We just have to be grateful if the choice ultimately made turns out to be a good one.</p>

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<p>Susantm,</p>

<p>My older sister got her undergrad degree in music at IU lo these many years ago, then went to Yale for a MM. I think I understand what you are saying about it being right for your son, in that IU is SO focused in its music department, giving lots of attention to this specific major, so highly respected. Of course, Yale is too, and she loved Yale for the time she was there.</p>