To All Yale SCEA Applicants

Colleges and Universities A-Z Yale University
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<p>I only joined this forum a few days ago but have been a "lurker" for a long time. But, I have been very active lately, looking at the different early threads and finding some of the most shattering results for some schools and their applicants. I just wanted to say as tomorrow comes, let's be positive!</p>

<p>I have seen already how strong and respectful this group of Yalie applicants is, but I have seen how applicants have turned from nice to nasty after seeing their results. Let us not blame our race, socio-economic status, or hook for allowing us to get in or not. The fact of the matter tomorrow is that we will be accepted, deferred, or rejected because of some merit or lack of such merit, whatever that may be.</p>

<p>I guess what I'm trying to get at is that as the Yale SCEA Applicants of 2013, let's continue being the shining posters and users on CC that we have been for the past agonizing and eventful six months that we've spent together.</p>

<p>And no doubt, I expect emotions to be high for many different reasons, and I just ask that we THINK before we post.</p>

<p>As someone told me today (unrelated to the talk of college), let us REJOICE with those around us for their success, and also EMPATHIZE with those around us who may feel at their lowest low tomorrow.</p>

<p>Bright times are ahead! I know that the class of 2013 APPLICANTS, not just the Yale Class of 2013 is one of the brightest and hardworking groups I have come to know.</p>

<p>Good luck everyone!</p>

<p>Sleep tight and let us hope for the best!</p>

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<p>Thanks! Good post =]</p>

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<p>Amen :)
10chars.</p>

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<p>Good post, but I sort of disagree with you on one thing. There ARE factors beyond an applicant's merit that influence, often substantially, whether or not they get in. I agree with you that these shouldn't be grounds for moaning, and no one should BLAME their deferral/rejection on being unhooked. But still, it is somewhat intellectually dishonest to pretend that the myriad factors that make an applicant successful are reducible to a simplistic evaluation of having "merit" or "not enough merit"</p>

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<p>Sure... :( </p>

<p>If I get rejected or deferred, I'll post my stats (as I pledged I would) and never come back to the Yale forum again...</p>

<p>Edit: and AA is still BS... nothing, no matter what my results are will change my mind about that... It's not personal. I've been posting my view on the subject for two and a half years now... So I'm not going to pretend it doesn't exist either.</p>

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<p>=U=
10chars.</p>

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<p>To orangutan: Oh no... I agree with you. It was just that I oversimplified the process with the hope of creating a succinct post, although that hardly worked out.</p>

<p>To gryffon: im also a staunch opponent of affirmative action, but i've realized that it is here to stay for now. so even though i may be biting my finger off just thinking why someone who may or may not have been less qualified got into Yale because of race, I also know I am not going to linger on it because that's life. It's unfair but I've learned to live with it.</p>

<p>Overall, I was just making the point that we should be the same Yale posters we have been and not changing our entire viewpoint or outlook now that one decision has come out.</p>

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<p>Heh, the other kid from my school who applied EA is incredibly white and 1/16th Native American, so...he applied as the latter. I so know who I'm blaming my rejection on. =P</p>

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<p>I've never liked affirmative action on the grounds that it ignores scarcity - there are a set number of seats, and if things come down to candidate versus candidate, (near the end of an admissions round), then admitting one student is denying another student.</p>

<p>And I'll come right out and say it - on average 'white' (bahaha, you know, if we did this by haplogroup (specifically R1 and its a and b analogs and any admixture over 50%, everyone from Iceland to India would be white - Clearly, we're not really using 'race' in affirmative action, we're using a historical definition of the privileged majority. ) people have more opportunities than others. Alright, that's absolutely true.</p>

<p>But to then say "For this advantage of race, we shall confer this advantage of race!'' smacks of racial discrimination to me.</p>

<p>I mean, what are we doing, playing trans generational racial tit for tat ? (I love that expression....yeah, because it lets me say 'tit', you're right)</p>

<p>Then we're left with a pretty skewed axis of value: Apparently previous injustices committed by long dead parties are just as important as socioeconomic disparity, which might not even be a byproduct of those injustices.</p>

<p>If that's the case, I encourage all Iranian applicants to lobby for preference over Greek applicants, all Armenian applicants to push for preference over Turkish applicants, all group X applicants to apply for preference over group Y applicants....ad naseaum.</p>

<p>Yeah, those are preposterous examples, (oh, btw, it's illegal to mention the 'alleged' Armenian genocide in Turkey, because it insults "Turkishness" which is a crime there.), but the reasoning behind their justification would only require a small modification to the normative population control that is current affirmative action policy.</p>

<p>Affirmative action can be changed for the better, and I will continue to refuse to accept it the way it is.</p>

<p>(Also, I'm not white or asian. .....and that I had to make this clear to add legitimacy to my views which would almost certainly have been challenged with the premise "Hey, you only said that because you're white/a ORM" is even more indicative of the motivations of affirmative action....)</p>

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<p>Oh god..the AA debate again. Even on this holiest of all days.</p>

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<p>If you can't tell from my username, I'm Asian.
I've also been attempting to avoid the whole AA debate, but aghhh.</p>

<p>I am a firm supporter of affirmative action.</p>

<p>Yes, racism may have gotten better over the years, but it still exists.</p>

<p>Let's face the stereotypes. I guarantee you that a large majority of people will think "black" when they hear the word "ghetto" or "gangster" and "Mexican" when they hear "illegal immigrants." I also guarantee you that one black person has called out another black person for speaking in proper grammar as "talking white."</p>

<p>I don't agree with stereotypes, but they are there for a reason. According to a 2005 sampling from the US Census Bureau, 24.9 percent of black people and 21.8 percent of Hispanic people are below the poverty level, as opposed to 7.8 percent of the white population.</p>

<p>The dominant racial body in society is white (all of our presidents until Obama, most rich businesspeople, most popular celebrities) and you know the saying "the winner writes history"? The same is for societal structure. Those on top have the social system working for them. A majority are born into healthier economic brackets that give them more opportunities such as SAT prep and fifteen years of professional piano coaching.</p>

<p>Affirmative action is to make up for these discrepancies. It is to make up for those minorities being suppressed by society AND by themselves (because role models to prove the stereotypes wrong are few and far between). Society doesn't believe they can exceed, so why fight the system?</p>

<p>It is rarer for the system to work for minorities than against them. I'm pretty sure we all like to think that every time a white man and a black man were both up for a CEO position, the most qualified would get the job. But that simply isn't true--the job market can be political, and if you were born into a wealthy, well-connected family, then lucky you. What are the odds that your family is also white? Did you think of the stereotype for that as well?</p>

<p>Think of socioeconomic level as a ladder and the bottom as poverty and the top as wealth. How far would you have to climb if you were born into the top? How much would have you have to fight to get to the top when there are people already up there wanting to keep their place?</p>

<p>An opportunity to go to Yale, a school that actually has the resources to help them get out of that situation, is what makes affirmative action so important.</p>

<p>Let's also not forget that affirmative action goes beyond race. It also was established to try and help combat sexism (the airhead cheerleader stereotype, anyone?).</p>

<p>Sources:
Poverty</a> 2005 Highlights</p>

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<p>And it's the responsibility of college admissions offices with two similar candidates to give one candidate a boost because his skin and genes conform with that of a population that HAS been unjustly treated ? (No one is denying the realities of socioeconomics...We're just decrying the method used to correct it)</p>

<p>I don't think so. Why? I'm not saying it's 'bad' for a first generation kid, who has put up with more struggle than anyone else to be considered differently. Absolutely not. I do think it is 'bad' when that difficulty he has had is cheapened and made meaningless.</p>

<p>Let me say this again : I have no problem with different circumstances being treated as different circumstances. Of COURSE a 4.5 at a crap inner city public school should raise more approval than the same GPA at Philips Andover.
Of COURSE a minority group that has literally been reduced by genocide should be considered to have worked much harder for their stats.</p>

<p>But if circumstances can't be determined by objectivity (location of school, rigor of school, parents income, GPA, test scores, jobs held, strength and relevance of ECs), then should it be determined by "My skin isn't white" ?</p>

<p>Your argument literally echoes the same point I made: When it comes down to candidate versus candidate, and the difference between the two is very small: Race Should Not Be A Factor.
It is literally saying "We will give this candidate an advantage because of the candidate's race"</p>

<p>Race should not be a factor in admissions, gender should not be a factor in admissions, sexual orientation should not be a factor in admissions, national origin should not be a factor in admissions, ethnicity should not be a factor in admissions, religion/personal convictions/lack of those should not be a factor in admissions.</p>

<p>Saying that a campus would then only be filled with rich white kids is an absolute insult to anyone who isn't a rich white kid, and to rich white kids as well!</p>

<p>What are you saying? Diversity can't be a result of someone's own work? It has to be a handout? I don't agree.
What are you saying? That because someone was born into a family with wealth and privilege, they are somehow less deserving of what they've achieved? I don't agree.</p>

<p>Discrimination based on race (and all the other factors I listed) is just wrong. Get rid of that discrimination and I can guarantee you a campus WILL be as diverse in opinion and background.</p>

<p>It will just have higher SAT scores.</p>

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<p>Then go to a public school where race isn't factored in admissions.</p>

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<p>Yeah, I could do that illuminar, OR</p>

<p>I could do my best to get into a school of my choice.</p>

<p>Is affirmative action important enough to me to squander my chances? No.</p>

<p>Is it important enough to disagree with an opinion on a message board when I have a spare moment? Oh hells yes.</p>

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<p>Just a little more to add to Caliboii's post.</p>

<p>My son was accepted to Yale in 2004 the first year of SCEA which is still known as "the bloodbath." If you take the time to go back and look through CC archives you will see plenty of 4.0/1600 (old score) applicants that were rejected just as you see them now on the threads for Penn and other schools that have already released their ED decisions.</p>

<p>It is important to keep one thing in mind, and I really do know this is difficult to do, but admissions to Yale (or any other highly selective school) is a crap shoot at best. At one Yale info session we attended we were told that over 95 % of all applicants are truly qualified for admission to Yale.When you consider that the admit rate is somewhere around 7% historically that means that 93% of the 95% of qualified applicants do not get accepted. They could fill a class several times over with 4.0s and 2400s but in their words that "would be a very boring class" and the one thing they strive to do is to make the class "interesting'.....again their words not mine.</p>

<p>My son attended a private school with 82 grads in the class. Yale had been his dream school since the eighth grade and when he was accepted SCEA it was the happiest day of his life. Ultimately seven students in his class were accepted to Yale but he is the only one who chose not to attend. He instead opted to accept a Morehead Scholarship at UNC. Sometime during his sophomore year he told us that despite his Yale dream he honestly couldn't see himself there a that time and was so very happy with his decision to attend UNC instead. </p>

<p>He never regretted his decision, had an incredible undergrad experience which took him to many parts of the world as part of the scholarship and today is an MS-1 (first year Med student) at a top ten Med School.</p>

<p>In short what I am trying to say is that if indeed you are denied admission to Yale it does not make you a lesser person in any way or any less talanted. It is NOT the end of the world and you will find a place that will welcome you and at which you will thrive and be extremely happy.</p>

<p>Please accept my best wishes to all and may you have much success wherever you ultimately end up choosing to attend school.</p>

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<p>It is a common misconception that colleges do AA because they give a flying **** about being fair to a race that has had a tough history or compensating, w/e. The reason that Yale needs to make sure that it has a strong % of non white, non asians is because 1) rankings take diversity into account and 2) more applicants will apply to a school that is diverse. Yale does AA because it has to be stay in the top ten US universities. So all the arguments about 'oh, well its not as if we discriminate anymore' and 'white privilege is so prevalent everywhere and this is just a small step to counter it' are completely pointless and missing the whole idea of why Yale does AA.</p>