to crimson bulldog- advice please

mel5140 · April 27, 2006, 12:31pm

i have visited overnite all my top schools. i have already declined harvard and a few other schools. i am now between yale and princeton. yale remains my first love. however, crime is the main issue. my parents are worried about the streets of campus and the town green. if i use the 2-WALK system and ride the bus to science hill and call 2-WALK when the bus isn't running, will i be safe? i really want to go to yale and the only reason i would go to princeton is because of crime. i welcome any advice from anyone right now. i am so on the fence and need to make a decision.

Entropic · April 27, 2006, 1:20pm

I'm sure crimsonbulldog will offer more eloquent advice with actual evidence, but just to restate what several others have said in response to your concerns in the past: Crime is not a problem for Yale students. There is virtually no crime on campus. Crime happens when people wander in the seedy areas of time at weird times of night, or the occasional minor theft that happens at any university. I have never feared for my safety here, and I have never encountered anyone who has had a problem with crime in New Haven. Yes, people are stupid and there is some crime...but it is not a problem a vast majority of students face.

I really don't mean to attack you. I hope you choose Yale, since it seems to be a better fit for you and the school that you describe as your 'first love'. However, every time you post, it just seems to be about how unsafe you feel New Haven is, and how much you dislike the dorms here. Many people have honestly responded to your concerns, yet you seem to ignore all assurances or opinions, and post your misgivings again and again.

In response to your specific question concerning the bus and 2-Walk system: Virtually no one uses the 2-Walk system, because virtually no one is in fear of their well-being. The bus runs really, really late, though many people choose to walk anyway because it is good exercise and there people going up and down at all hours. I've walked the hill many times at all times of day and night, and never had a problem, or even a hint of concern.

If crime was such a huge problem, why would anyone choose to risk their health and well-being in coming here instead of Princeton, Columbia, Duke, or any other school?

crimsonbulldog · April 27, 2006, 1:29pm

There are a few points here I want to make

1) Science Hill is in the OPPOSITE direction of the bad parts of New Haven. In fact, Science Hill is the beginning of the richer more bucolic part of New Haven where professors and grad students live. From Cross Campus it is a beautiful walk, especially up Hillhouse and really is completely barren of any urbanity. You don't have to worry. If you end up living far from Science Hill and it is cold outside, then I would suggest to use the Yale shuttle bus which is frequent and can even be ordered. (I don't know how often you would find yourself up science hill though at night. You're really there just during the day for class and small groups/labs.) Otherwise, its a great walk/bike ride. Further up the Hill is Albertus Magnus College and also, a must see name East Rock which is a state park with a huge outcrop and river, ideal for hikes and uphill biking, as well as picnics and such.

2) The town green? The only time you'll go there is for picnics, frisbee, and public concerts during the day. There is nothing there at night, nor did I ever find myself walking around the public green at night (nor ever during the day). Its not going to be a part of your Yale experience other than lining up there for graduation with the mass of YALE. It is a non-issue. You might go to church there I guess. I

3) Living in an urban environment is always an adjustment. But Yale is as safe as any urban campus. I've shown this in detail on prior threads. Yale has done ALOT to shore up security (including building a new Yale Police Station this year and adding the campus police force) since the high points of crime in the late 80's/early 90's, and the falling crime stats have been proof. What it comes down to is if you are willing to live in an urban environment, whether that suits you. Its really up to you. There is always going to be crime where there is a city. Personally I think its worth it. Of course you will have at your disposal the 2-Walk system - but I can honestly say I never knew a single person who used it, nor felt like they needed it. I think its there "just in case." The shuttle is great especially from getting from the medical campus to science hill, which is like a mile. Its also useful when its freezing or when you need to get to the train station. I never used it for safety reasons. In fact, I never had a single safety issue while at Yale.

4) If you "love" Yale, you should go to Yale. Don't let a misconception hold you back from your dream. Yale is an amazing place. Even Princeton people agree!

If you have any specific questions, please PM me.

athena_wiles · April 27, 2006, 1:46pm

mel, as the previous two posters have noted, personal safety etc. is really only an issue if you wander away from campus, by yourself, at night. if you are smart about where you go when - stay on campus at night; go with a friend if it's late, call 2-walk if you can't find someone to go with you, carry a cell phone, all that sort of thing - you will be just fine. just for the record, my mom was on yale campus in the 80s as a graduate student and almost wouldn't let me apply as an undergrad b/c the safety problems she'd remembered... but upon visiting campus with me, she decided to let me apply & ultimately attend. now, I know you don't know my mom, but that's a MAJOR turnaround. she wouldn't have let me come if she didn't feel I would be safe here.

it's good that you're concerned, but please don't let yourself be turned off of Yale by perceived safety issues. as long as you don't do anything exceedingly stupid with respect to personal safety, you shouldn't have any problems.

(P.S. I don't really take the science hill shuttle at night b/c it's really only scheduled during the day, and thus is really only useful when it's raining etc. BUT the yale minibus (432-6330 - they teach you a mnemonic for this number during orientation, and you learn it by memory) is on call every night after 10 pm (or 9:30?) and will pick you up or drop you off pretty much anywhere on campus. for the few times that I've found myself off campus late at night, this has proved to be an exceedingly useful service, and it's definitely one worth knowing about if you're concerned about security)

mel5140 · April 28, 2006, 5:00am

i am very serious about wanting to come to yale. however, i am trying to do my homework and find out as much as i possibly can in order to make a good decision. i read about an incident whereby a grad student (class of 2009) was held up at gunpoint at early dusk at the intersection of Wall and Temple streets. This is just outside Silliman and Timothy Dwight. It could easily have been an undergrad. everyone keeps telling me there is no crime and they are perfectly safe. yet it seems that like even one block over from pierson there has been incidents. can anyone speak to this.

crimsonbulldog · April 28, 2006, 8:51am

look mel, we've made our case. You seem to be nitpicking particular incidents, which of course occur, everywhere. Don't think you are going to end up in a glass bubble. Here a few this school year at Princeton:
<a href="http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2006/04/17/news/15248.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2006/04/17/news/15248.shtml</a>
<a href="http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2005/12/12/news/14105.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2005/12/12/news/14105.shtml</a>
<a href="http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2005/10/21/news/13557.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2005/10/21/news/13557.shtml</a>

Now, this is no knock on Princeton, just a demonstration that you are going to be susceptibel anywhere. nowhere is immune to crime. You have to employ common sense, like not walking alone in a badly-lit corridor, etc...

I get the feeling now that you can't get over this anxiety. I know its going to be hard next year, having to move away from home and live in a foreign environment, but you have to take this head on and accept the challenge. Your hesitation, after all that has been said, is sort of indicative that you are still not convinced that Yale is safe even though it is. Maybe safe to you is nothing ever happening to a single student, but that is never the case, anywhere in the world. I take it this stalling means you probably can never be convinced that you carry a misconception of Yale and the world in general - no offense.

There was a run of incidents north of Howe street (two blocks north of Pierson) this past year in August and September. Here is the latest about those since you seem concerned.
"Discussion in the Institutional Policies Committee centered on making additions to the police and security forces and improving security and escort services, Levin said. Although campus crime has been low in recent months, the committee members hope the recently added security will prevent a recurrence of high crime rates similar to those experienced in late August and early September, he said."
<a href="http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=32895%5B/url%5D">http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=32895</a>

athena_wiles · April 28, 2006, 8:52am

mel - yes, there have been incidents. you're right. one of my friends was mugged on park street (outside the back of Pierson) this year, for instance. however, guess what she was doing when this happened? walking alone, on a deserted street, at almost 2 in the morning. someone else I know (only peripherally) was mugged over near Shaw's (the supermarket a couple of blocks away from DPort/Pierson), when he was walking by himself, away from campus. this is what I meant by "don't do anything stupid." if you throw caution to the wind and walk around by yourself late at night or several blocks off campus, you will be putting yourself in danger. however, people who are smart about personal safety, and walk with friends or call 2-walk if they're out alone late at night or call the minibus if they're going off campus at night, generally don't have problems. I hope this makes what I was trying to say before a bit clearer... yes, there are safety issues around campus, but you're going to find incidents like this on any campuse, and at Yale they usually only become an issue when people disregard what should be common sense rules about how to keep themselves safe.

I don't know, maybe someone else will have a different perspective on this, but that's my two cents...

Entropic · April 28, 2006, 12:38pm

Hehe, that incident you referred to outside of Silliman happened less than 20 feet from my window.

Since then, there has a been a police car stationed right in the area every night. I head out with my friends after midnight every evening to get snacks or visit people in other colleges, and there has not been a single evening in which I have not seen Yale security/ NH police patrolling or just parked in the area. This is based off a single incident...they do care, and make a very, very distinct effort to make sure it doesn't happen again.

martinibluex · April 28, 2006, 11:56pm

[quote]
i have visited overnite all my top schools. i have already declined harvard and a few other schools. i am now between yale and princeton. yale remains my first love. however, crime is the main issue. my parents are worried about the streets of campus and the town green. if i use the 2-WALK system and ride the bus to science hill and call 2-WALK when the bus isn't running, will i be safe? i really want to go to yale and the only reason i would go to princeton is because of crime. i welcome any advice from anyone right now. i am so on the fence and need to make a decision.

[/quote]
Is it that bad?????????????

athena_wiles · April 29, 2006, 10:42am

hm? what do you mean, martinibleux? most students NEVER use 2-walk and don't bother taking the science hill bus, and they're perfectly fine...

mel5140 · April 29, 2006, 2:28pm

i decided for princeton this morning and faxed in my acceptance. i read last evening about the rash of robberies at gunpoint during the last week. apparently there has been another string of holdups to undergrad students just as the semester has only 2 weeks to go. the year started off with incidents, the police indicate that winters can be bad since weapons are easily concealable and now the year ends with more problems. both of these were undergrad students held up at 9:53 a.m. and 10:45 a.m. in broad daylight. the first incident occurred on monday, april 17th, the day before i arrived for bulldog days. the second incident occurred on april 26th, this past wednesday. i feel sorry that yale failed to notify any of the students who came to bulldog days or their parents. i walked around campus both days feeling nonchalantly safe and stayed out til 2 in the morning with other pre-frosh. i would have been more vigilant if i had known of the incident on monday. i agree that most people are okay but if you are the one held up, you might have a different opinion. harvard did notify all of the parents and prefrosh exactly which areas were not safe and what routes to take. if you are from california, are you going to know not to cross the Cambridge Commons at night? also, i saw about the incident during the first few months this school year especially the one immediately outside silliman residential college and close by the the whitman humanities center. yet, yale failed to tell the undergrad students and only sent a memo to the grad students because it was a grad student held up on the undergrad campus. i think that i would prefer to know what is going on so that i can assess whether i find that acceptable or not. but i feel that yale fails to tell the prefrosh the truth. secondly, i read about the davenport sophomores who are being forced out of housing into offcampus housing next year on park street. i would hate to find myself in that situation in another year. college is stressful enough- i don't want to have to be constantly looking over my shoulder.

athena_wiles · April 29, 2006, 6:14pm

shrug your choice. have fun at princeton.

Anom · April 29, 2006, 9:27pm

Can anyone say sheltered?

Mexican_Bulldog · May 1, 2006, 5:16am

What a tool.

mel5140 · May 1, 2006, 7:47am

thanks athena.
mexican bulldog, you are a real charmer (not).

crimsonbulldog · May 1, 2006, 8:48am

your posts made me laugh mel. I had the same reaction as anom. I find the grittiness of new haven to be a good thing - sort of weeds out the weak of heart. Good luck at princeton and I hope one day you emerge from your shell

cb

PS: There have been a string of sexual assault on the princeton campus!!! Please, do be careful. Hope you don't worry to much while you work so hard ;)

Mexican_Bulldog · May 1, 2006, 12:59pm

Mel, you could've made a decision based on more rational and relevant criteria.

You might as well have flipped a coin. All these people over and over tried to prove to you that crime at Yale is not the problem it's purported to be and you seemed to comletely ignore them.

posterX · May 1, 2006, 9:57pm

I know a bunch of people who have lived in New Haven for the past 8 years and have never seen so much as a car accident, much less an actual crime. There are restaurants all over the area, many of them open until the wee hours of the morning, or even 24/7. There are theaters everywhere, especially by the Yale Drama School, and a half dozen art openings and music concerts every night, even on Sundays. On average, the coffeeshops there stay open later than the ones in New York City! All that streetlife actually makes the area very safe, unless you wander off into an area with no foot traffic (where there would be no reason to go). Also, because of the lower risk of car accidents in cities, where people tend to drive slower and less often, they are actually much safer than any suburban area like Princeton.

Sure, there are occasional incidents you would read about in the newspaper, just as you would in any other city (if you pay attention to the crime section - the bigger the city, the less likely crime stories will make the front page even though they are typically more likely to happen). But, the actual chance of getting hurt in a random crime incident is less than 1/200th the chance of getting hurt by a random car accident. And of course, in any city, you can lower your risk even more by staying away from the more dangerous areas, like streets that aren't well lit or are deserted. If you stay in nicer areas you can walk around at any hour and be totally fine; in many cases the increased density of people living in more urban areas make them safer than your typical suburb because there are more "eyes on the street."

In New York City, a girl was mugged, shot and killed by a random mugger in the middle of the fancy Greenwich Village neighborhood last year, but it isn't stopping people from moving in and buying apartments in the area, which is right by NYU. Despite the occasional crime (usually involving a drug deal or kids fighting over some girl), in New Haven people are snapping up the million-dollar luxury loft apartments all over the area around Yale and downtown New Haven. Dozens of new stores and restaurants are opening all over the downtown area by Yale every single month, and tens of thousands of college students in the area now flock downtown every weekend. The crowds are so thick you literally can't even walk down the sidewalks. It has easily become one of the best college towns in the country, right up there with Austin or Westwood.

Of course, if you want to be sheltered from the rest of the world, not interact with any kind of general public and have nothing meaningful to do, ever, live in Princeton or some other fake (and actually more dangerous due to cars) suburban area.

f.scottie · May 1, 2006, 11:20pm

"Despite the occasional crime (usually involving a drug deal or kids fighting over some girl), in New Haven people are snapping up the million-dollar luxury loft apartments all over the area around Yale and downtown New Haven. Dozens of new stores and restaurants are opening all over the downtown area by Yale every single month, and tens of thousands of college students in the area now flock downtown every weekend. The crowds are so thick you literally can't even walk down the sidewalks. It has easily become one of the best college towns in the country, right up there with Austin or Westwood."

lol, good one!

athena_wiles · May 1, 2006, 11:48pm

okay, yeah, in my experience, PosterX is exaggerating a little. However, I think the point he (she?) makes, and that many other people in this thread have made in different ways, is that there is going to be some level of crime and violence in any city - even the best college towns. Unfortunately, New Haven's got a bad rep in this sense. Safety was a BIG issue at Yale for many, many years, but things have been greatly improved in recent years. Pulling isolated articles from Yale and Princeton's newspapers isn't really going to prove much about the relative safety of the campuses; if someone wants to provide a CREDIBLE source for the crime rates in both places (real, credible statistics, mind you), that's fine, but for now, can we stay away from the anecdotal evidence? It's not getting us anywhere.

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