<p>^ Smirkus, I completely agree.</p>
<p>smirkus -
there's this interesting thread on Parent's having to do with ranking - especially see Tarhunt's post 94: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=311709&page=7%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=311709&page=7</a> . It's a natural thing to want to know where one stands - and maybe derive some certainty as to where one will stand in the future. As long as you remember that on a quarter system you can't procrastinate (too much, anyway), I think you will be fine.</p>
<p>Cardene, you are 100% right. </p>
<p>I am almost starting to associate U of C with............Utopia??..</p>
<p>So, MovieBuff, just how many scalps - opps, sorry, I mean admissions offers and likelies do you have thus far?</p>
<p>^^^^Ha, ha ha!! </p>
<p>Here at my high school we really do not care about those things. I am really enjoying my senior year. To be honest, I sent my applications so long ago that I do not even remember my GPA nor my SAT scores. After all, who cares? I happen to go to a wonderful school where we put the emphasis on learning. My friends and I were just talking the other day about how well we will be prepared for college. We have been so lucky to be able to enjoy ourselves in such a relax atmosphere too!!. I am just waiting to look at the end of march...and ... I will see! Admissions offers ? Likelies ? There is more to life than that!! I am not worried though. I know that the colleges will take into account where I am coming from and realize the greatness of my institution. Grades...who cares??!!</p>
<p>( I just could not resist ohio_mom ! BTW how many scalps does that count for? )</p>
<p>There seems to be some misterpreting of my previous post.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"I'm here for the education, the liberal arts experience, and the wonderful opprotunities offered at Chicago. I'm also here to become successful and achieve my goals in life."</p>
<p>Are you currently at UChicago?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, I don't attend UChicago. I meant I'm "here" as in the admissions process and this stage of my high school life. (someone alluded to me being in grad school...whoa there)</p>
<p>
[quote]
what is with this fixation on getting an individual's GPA?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If you read through the UChicago forum, you'll notice numerous threads that talk about the rampant grade deflation and difficult Chicago academics.</p>
<p>It has also been said that some of the top students visit CC. Naturally, I would be interested to see the CC students from Chicago and their GPAs to get an overall feel. Is everyone getting a 3.2, or is there a decent spread? Yes, this could be considered a horrible statistical survey (and by all means it is), but at least If I saw a handful of 3.8's I would know its possible. For someone who wants to apply to a T4 Law School, that is not an unreasonable request . The T4 law schools have 3.8 as the bottom 25th percentile GPA, making me see a 3.3 or even a 3.5 student coming from Chicago at a signifncant disadvantage in the law schools admission process. Is it impossible to make Harvard Law with a 3.5 from Chicago? Of course not, but perhaps it could be improbable.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Regardless of grades or any of that, none of the schools we keep mentioning on these forums are anywhere close to a walk in the park. Any of the schools we are naming are freaking hard too.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree that in general the schools most of us are looking at are hard. However, grade inflation is a common trend among some of the top institutions, and Chicago is one of the top places WELL KNOWN to deflate GPAs. This can be proven empirically as well - Chicago grads can make a med school with a 3.3 GPA, something that is impossible from many schools. However, making a top medical school or top law school is a much different game than making any medical school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have been resisting the urge of posting stuff like that, because personally, I am really insecure about my intelligence when I read other people's stats
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Therein lies the problem with a lot of these top schools and the admissions process. Intelligence is clearly not our grades, however it is the number one factor for medical/law admissions. Unfair? Yes. But this is the reality. Doing well in school is completely unrelated to intelligence at the high level we are all at.</p>
<p>I want to attend an institution that maximizes my chances of doing well, thereby maximizing my admissions for graduate school.</p>
<p>MovieBuff,
Good reply, LOL. You are a character, and I do hope you enjoy your college experience wherever that may be.</p>
<p>"I want to attend an institution that maximizes my chances of doing well, thereby maximizing my admissions for graduate school."</p>
<p>Is this specifically law school and is "doing well" specifically GPA?</p>
<p>I see where you are coming from Cardene. Nice response, and I'm basically in the same boat as you. Sure, I do want to go to the best medical school I can. I share you fears about U of C hurting my chances for that. However, being optimistic, I want to throw out two ideas: 1. Chicago acceptances to say the top 10 law schools or med schools are nothing compared to all of the acceptances from all schools, therefore in computing stats, Chicago's lower gpa with accepted students is not reflected at all (so maybe looking at Chicago stats about student gpas and acceptances to certain schools would be more helpful).
2. Again, if it was unbelievably hard to get into the professional schools you are talking about, harder coming from Chicago than another school lets say, I am very sure that would be very well publicized and would hurt the school tremendously--"oh you're going there, no way your gonna get into any decent law schools going there unless you a little Einstein who doesn't stop working for 4 years!" I will attest my wishful thinking and the absence of comments like the cheesy one I just made up to Chicago's gpa not screwing smart kids over.</p>
<p>Cardene, you seem to be drawing a whole lot on </p>
<p>a) single statistics (like the grade spread at Harvard Law)
b) generalizations (i.e. "[fact] is well known"
c) poor logic (assuming people who post their GPAs on CC will be in any way a representative sample)</p>
<p>You also seem to know a heck of a lot about how grad schools treat GPAs in their admissions (you speak about them with such confidence, in fact, that one person already assumed you were AT a grad school). Now I don't claim to know any more than you do, but people here who <em>have</em> experience do. I suggest you listen to them. Considering they're actually speaking from real-world evidence kind of overrides any conclusions you could draw from your argument, which seems to be about what you THINK grad schools are looking for. </p>
<p>Again, this concern is a natural part of making the enormous commitment that is a four-year college - obviously you want to "maximize your chances of doing well." I just beg you to make sure you have all of the facts and perspectives before you do something silly like assume grade deflation will automatically knock you out of the running for med school. </p>
<p>I'm going to repeat what I already said. Call up or e-mail your admissions counselor, who will be more than happy to discuss your questions with you. Even better, they'll actually have years of experience and a wealth of knowledge to draw on, which I can assure you will provide a more than adequate picture of the situation for you. Ask them about GPAs, grad schools, courses. They'll talk you through it and even if they don't know the particulars of a situation, they'll forward you the contact info of somebody who can help. There are people in the med/law/econ departments who are very interested in helping prospective students start to develop their plans for the future, promise.</p>
<p>p.s. What would the University have to gain by making it harder to get into grad school than it is at any other top-notch institution? One thing that they're not in the business of is ruining the dreams of the brightest and best, cackling as they crush their GPAs into pitiful 3.3's... "You should have gone to Yaaaaaaaaaale" echoing through the night...</p>
<p>People from Chicago get in to all of the Top-rated law schools. </p>
<p>And a 3.8 is most certainly possible.</p>
<p><a href="http://prehealth.uchicago.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://prehealth.uchicago.edu/</a></p>
<p>Quoted from the law site:</p>
<p>"Law schools do not stipulate minimum applicant (undergraduate) grade point averages, although they do provide statistics sufficient for candidates to evaluate their competitiveness. GPA is used in conjunction with the LSAT score to compute an index number which each institution uses in a different fashion.</p>
<p>"GPA is computed by the LSDAS from all undergraduate transcripts. This figure may differ from the one reported on the University of Chicago transcript because of scaling, or (in some cases) if the applicant studied abroad. The LSDAS reports GPA distribution for all applicants by undergraduate institution. This permits the law schools to evaluate GPA in the context of the institution from which it is earned. For this reason, applicants from the University of Chicago should not be as concerned about differences in grading between different undergraduate institutions."</p>
<p>Please let's not fight any more. I have a final paper to finish.</p>
<p>I'm starting to get tired of my own reasoning on this, and hearing other people's theories on this stuff. I sent an email to someone from the health professions site at Chicago. Whatever it is that she replies, I'll post it here. Until then, lets relax, kick back, smell the fresh air, look at the trees smile and be happy.</p>
<p>For those wanting to compare, I've posted the links for Harvard and Yale law and JHU med below. Chicago does fairly well in HY law admissions. In terms of raw numbers, it's outnumbered by Amherst and Williams and does about as well as Swarthmore.</p>
<p>You know there are plenty of schools other than the ivies that have amazing law/medical programs.</p>
<p>Don't you guys think your choices are a little too narrowed already?</p>
<p>I think we are just looking at them to see how Chicago measures up to other schools in terms of acceptances to those professional schools which are notoriously difficult to get into.</p>
<p>Personally, those numbers didn't look amazing, or maybe I'm interpreting them differently. Did the Jhops data actually mean that only 2 people from Chicago who were accepted are now attending? I would assume the people who were accepted from chicago from all those schools warblersrule86 graciously got us the data for were top of their class at Chicago... top of the class meaning very very good gpa (and no, I don't believe as some posters sort of suggest, that they love learning more than others so got better grades because they loved their classes more). The conclusions I would make by looking at those three sets of data are that it's very difficult to get into the most elite professional schools coming from Chicago.</p>
<p>But yes, it is silly to start fretting over stuff like that now, even before I am in college... but at least it seems to speak to what the OP originally wanted to know.</p>
<p>However, I would think if we looked at more data sets we would see larger numbers for chicago... this is no doubt a criteria used by USNWR for rankings, and if Chicago is ranked 9, it can't really be lacking in any category.</p>
<p>Law School
Havard is pretty incestuous with it law school admits - it looks like about half of its admits are its own and cousin Yale's. I believe this is not uncommon with law schools. If you wish to define your life by whether or not you are admitted to Harvard law, by all means, attend Harvard or Yale undergrad and follow the safe path. Remember, however, that there are considerations for where you will be taking the bar exam and where you will be practicing. </p>
<p>Med School
This is something that I have discussed with a doctor friend, who has sat on admissions boards because medicine was on the (rather extensive) list of possibilities for my son. In her experience (i know, just two data points - her and her husband), the school that you attend and your GPA will be considered. The reference to scaling that amykins cited is pretty interesting. </p>
<p>But, really and truly, its more than just numbers. Now, remember all the kids on CC that have fabulous GPA/Rank/SATs and get shut out most everywhere but the place they don't want to attend? They also usually say their essays are great. Well, guess what, kiddos, a lot of times the essays suck (I've read a lot), and the kids have submerged their personalities into an amalgam of 'what colleges want.' If the kid goes to a big bucks private, sometimes the GC can get them in. Not always, though.</p>
<p>Astonishingly enough, medical admissions boards consider other factors than GPA / MCAT. Personal growth and maturity are factors. The question is, where will you do this best? For some, it may be better to attend a school there you are a big fish (academically) in a small pond: think science-y LAC; my son had one of these on his list for exactly this possibility. For others - and particularly if money is an issue, attending the honors program at your state university may be the safest option. For others, a school such as Chicago or its peers will be the best if you thrive on this type of challenging atmosphere. </p>
<p>This all pre-supposes that you will still be a pre-med at the end of your four years. Big assumption; statistically risky. The evil o-chem could get you regardless of where you are. You could decide you want to be a lit major instead. If you change your mind, will you still be happy?</p>
<p>I wonder what percentage of U of C undergrads are at U of C law, one of the nation's best. Here are its admit numbers and approach:</p>
<p>
[quote]
What are the median LSAT scores and GPA's of admitted applicants? For the entering class of 2006, the median LSAT is 171, GPA 3.66.</p>
<p>Do you have an LSAT/GPA cutoff? No. While we do have a very strong applicant pool numerically, the non-numerical factors in an application are just as important. Thus, our admitted students have a very wide range of GPAs and LSATs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
I wonder what percentage of U of C undergrads are at U of C law, one of the nation's best.
[/quote]
Or at Chicago med, which used to (or still does?) have an early acceptance program with sophomores. :)</p>
<p>They have a new program that allows a very small percentage of U of C undergrads to begin in what would be their 4th year of undergrad instead of waiting until grad school. They do like Chicago undergrads to apply, but it is a very expensive school to attend. One is often much better off applying to their state medical schools, the tuition differences are often quite dramatic. I have a nephew who graduated with excellent numbers from a top Ivy who was accepted at well known private med schools, but ended up at his state med school. Even though his family, combined with some debt, could swing, his dad (a highly respected physician) said it is not worth it for med school. He feels all med schools are quite good, and one is not helped or hurt by where one goes to med school. This is all good news for me!</p>