To those asking about chances at M&T at Penn...

I’ve looked and looked and looked for acceptance rates for M&T and found really no concrete answers other than people speculating. That said, it’s supposedly around 2-3%. And that said, I got in.

Let me assure you, I am not the top of my class. I have no national recognition in science or business. I failed my AP’s for calculus and physics. After taking the ACT four times I still got no higher than a 33. I sent two subjects tests, both of which were under 750. I had B’s in a grand total of 4 semesters before senior year and two in my first semester of senior year, which were sent to Penn.

I’m writing this because it frustrates me to go through post after post on this website and many others, reading essays, profiles, concerns, and lists of colleges. I see students who are objectively better than me on paper. There are students who have been working in labs every summer for all of high school, working to cure cancer or something of the sort. I read the profiles of kids who are valedictorians, and salutatorians, and national merit scholars, have never gotten below a 5 on an AP ever, and all that kinds of stuff. That kind of profile is so far from where I stand.

But here’s where things get interesting… I still got in. I’ve thought for a long time about it, wondering if it was just a fluke, and I’ve come to the (egotistical) conclusion that no, it was not a fluke. You can have as many clubs, A’s, perfect scores, whatever. There are people that do too many things, so many things that it becomes obvious that that person can’t possibly have developed a deep connection with anything if they’re splitting their time between 20 things all the time.

At the end of the day, I’ve read a lot of essays online that say nothing about who the person actually is. At the end of the day, you have to be authentic, and your love for management and technology has to be authentic as well. I know in my heart that my passion for M&T is strong, authentic, real. I think M&T’s also have to fit the program well enough too. There are so many essays for M&T out there that just talk about how it’s an unparalleled program for business and engineering and those are two of the most important industries in the world-- no duh. But what is going to drive you to do the work for the next four years? 6 courses every semester for four years is no easy task to commit to-- your passion has to drive you, not the program’s prestige. I would say that your “chances” are better elsewhere if you’re applying to M&T because it’s going to get you a good job, high paying internship, prestige, whatever.

So, what’s the takeaway here? Perfect test scores, grades, or an exorbitant amount of extracurriculars isn’t going to get you in. Penn is not a one-dimensional place, and M&T even more so. When they say wholistic review, they mean it. Your essays matter, put time into them. My original purpose in writing this was mostly to give hope to those out there whose heart says apply, but their parents, counselors, inner voice says don’t because of what’s on the paper. The failed AP, the B on your transcript, the low test scores, they DON’T define you. Remember that. Best of luck to everyone.

@jthvar179 I agree with everything you say. I am in no way insinuating that your acceptance was a fluke. The admissions officers obviously saw something special in you. That said it is important to acknowledge that amongst the M&T admits, you are probably more like the exception than the rule when it comes to grades and scores. of course grades are not everything. and people with less than perfect grades can and are admitted to Penn and even M&T every year, but statistically speaking the odds are in favor of applicants with straight As and near-perfect scores who also have meaningful ECs.

@Penn95 I know you replied to my post a while ago, but I’ve come back to it time and time again debating about whether or not to respond. I think my response is not exactly a response, but a reiteration.

I would completely agree that I am the exception. But I posted this hoping that it would help kids who, like me, saw M&T and it spoke to them like it spoke to me, but felt so so discouraged by some bad test scores, or messed up AP’s. I’m not a believer in APs. They are one time only, extreme tests. Long term hard work is seldom reflected in a high pressure, stressful, 2 week period to show what you’re made of, and on crucifying 4 hour, horrible tests.

But, I simply hope that future kids will apply to M&T despite a failed AP, or a subpar SAT/ACT. I know I chose to go for it even though I had only the tiniest nugget of hope, but I am eternally grateful to myself for taking that risk. It’s hard for 17 year olds to make these choices that affect their entire lives. People should understand that perfect test scores aren’t the only route; in fact, many schools reject as many perfect score kids as they accept. I know I was tired of dragging around my failed AP, my few B’s, as though they were the end of me. By putting it out there AS an M&T, I just feel as though it’s an opposing voice to what I found as an exploring junior, which was only posts that were utterly discouraging. And, I’m not disagreeing with you, Penn95. I’m just expanding on my intention here