Top 10 (or whatever) Musical Theatre Programs

College Majors Musical Theater Major
41

<p>Be wary of CSUF. I attend there. I am transferring from there. </p>

<p>Yes, the BFA program is decent. Not as good as it used to be. They are riding on the name. But if you don't make the BFA, you've just spent 2 more years of your life and won't have the degree you want.
And no matter what If you don't make the BFA, you will be in school for at least 5 years because the classes you take as a BFA wannabe don't all apply for the BA.
And because of the 2 years you spend at the school BFA selection becomes more about sucking up than talent.</p>

42

<p>Hi, I am a Mom of a Junior who will be looking for schools with Musical Theater Programs. We've been reading Peterson's Guide and getting Dramatics Magazine but this is a very different process than the "regular" way to apply. We (my husband and son) are really overwhelmed and are trying to decide which schools might be a good fit for our son. We live in NJ and we are starting to arrange visits with the Hartt School, Pace, AMDA. We are hoping that people will reply with suggestions for good Musical Theater Programs (Tish is not on our list for several reasons). Our son is talented and has performed in productions since third grade. He also plays the piano but doesn't want to be a music teacher. His dreams are to be on stage.....any suggestions for other East Coast Schools that people have attended and liked for Musical Theater? Thanks! Maril</p>

43

<p>ALFIEISM notes,"Personally, for me, none of those schools would be in my top choice because of how expensive it is and how little I want loans after graduating. "</p>

<p>Response: CCM is the only state school among your list. It is substantially cheaper than the other schools mentioned PLUS most decent students with a 3.2 GPA or better get a Cincinnatus scholarship worth at least $5,000 per year. If you count the tuition difference among the schools and add in the Cincinnatus,which is almost automatic, CCM turns out to be 50% of what the other schools cost and is, arguably as good or better than most of the other schools mentioned. </p>

<p>In addition, the cost of living is cheaper at Cincinnati. Thus, you have lower costs for room and board, books, entertainment etc.</p>

<p>By the way, Cincinnati also gives out departmental scholarships. We had a kid who was probably the top tenor in our high school,which is known for its performing arts. He even played football at our high school ,which made him even more extraordinary. He was given a free-ride for his tuition! </p>

<p>My daughter was accepted to University of Cincinnati ( although it was the DAAP school) and at Carnegie Mellon. It was 50% less expensive at Cincinnati. In addition the cost of living increases were less at Cincinnati than at Carnegie Mellon and other private schools.</p>

44

<p>Maril, if you look at the top of the main page for Musical Theatre, you will see a long list of schools. Most, if not all of these schools have well established programs and are the schools that are the most discussed on this Board. Many of them will be immediately recognizable as "east coast" schools. Coupled with Peterson's Guide, you should be able to put together a fairly comprehensive list of east coast schools for a preliminary review. Once you have visited the schools' websites, you may be able to pare the list down to schools you think warrant a visit. People on this Board could no doubt give you a list, but in all likelihood the schools would be included in the list at the top of the page and one person's notion of what is a good list for you to look at could omit many schools that would be very appealing to you and your son.</p>

45

<p>Maril - Montclair State is an option and would be inexpensive for you...</p>

46

<p>Like LizMT, I attend CSUF also, but I haven't had the same experience she has had. It's actually a really good school if you are looking to pursue any career in theatre arts. Yes, you aren't guaranteed into the BFA program until your junior year, but just getting a BA is still a good education. It's required that all teachers must be actively working in the industry. There is a senior showcase for agents and producers in NYC. There are guest artists every year. The musical director Mitch Hanlon puts together a group of singers that get to perform in concerts at the Hollywood Bowl. There are so many opportunities here to get experience and learn. And if you take the acting track, well a senior here just one the national ACTF competition so obviously something is going right. </p>

<p>Anyway, CSUF is a great school if you are looking for a theatre arts degree. If you have any questions, feel free to email me!</p>

47

<p>This is a question that has always plaqued me since the time we came up with our initial application list. At what cost, MT?? While MT programs are not rated, colleges are rated by US News. Assuming your student is a match for a top 50 US News school, do you send them off to #100 or a second or third tier school because at this point in their life that is where their talent matches? </p>

<p>Since there is so little success and so much competition in this field if your child can't get accepted to one of the top MT programs - even though you may be able to point out individuals who later "made it" - do you totally ignore this early indicator and send them to what appears to be a second tier MT program when they could have attended a first tier academic school?</p>

<p>Even though some of the MT programs have little in the way of academics, I still value being college educated. Especially if I'm paying $40k or more a year. Even more since there is so little guarantee of success in performing arts. A degree from a top school could eventually get them a job or take them into a graduate program when they get tired of waiting tables in NYC or starving. I think there is value in a backup plan. I think you need to evaluate from your academic level just how much compromise on your education you are willing to make.</p>

48

<p>
[quote]
I think you need to evaluate from your academic level just how much compromise on your education you are willing to make.

[/quote]
This is what's on my mind, too.</p>

<p>A good example is Marymount. D toured it on her own last month & loved it. But as far as academics go, I was shocked to see the top academic scholarship ($6K) goes to anyone with an 1150SAT/3.0 GPA. Perhaps the BFA training is wonderful, but this does fit in precisely with the concerns you expressed.</p>

49

<p>MomOfAPrincess - I think the issue you raise crystalizes an important distinction between most BFA programs and most BA programs. In the former, regardless of whether the school is a "top rated" academic institution or not, there is little time for more traditional academics. While there are always exceptions, take for example CMU. Highly regarded academically, but if you are in the BFA MT program, you take almost no classes (beyond freshman writing I think) outside of the department. There is virtually no liberal arts component for MT majors. At Syracuse, a well regarded full blown university with even its own law school, the structured sequenced curriculum for BFA MT majors has space for all of 8 electives outside of the department, not even enough for a minor in most cases. Simply put, BFA programs are designed to be professional training programs with a narrow but in depth focus. Now I know someone will point to schools like NYU, UMich and Emerson where the first 2 years about 2/5 to half your classes are spent in liberal arts, but from what I have observed, there are very few BFA programs structured like this. But even there, after 2 years the focus becomes narrow and specialized. I wonder, if you do a count over 4 years, how many non-specialized performance classes you really take even compared to the more "traditional" BFA programs?</p>

<p>In contrast are the BA programs at quality academic institutions that have strong theatre/performance departments. There you have the opportunity to have a meaningfully diversified curriculum where the strength of the school academically can translate into an individually designed educational program that includes dual majors and minors. It is here I think, in the context of a BA program, that a school's academic reputation and quality will have the more significant impact on a student's future opportunities. These distinctions make salient just how important it is for students and parents to carefully think through their educational objectives and career path choices they are making when putting together a list of schools.</p>

<p>All of that being said, I have observed what appears to be a growing awareness, if not focus, on the importance of a broader education within the context of a BFA program at some schools. At UArts for example (which I cite only because I am most familiar with it), it's no secret that in years past, it was not know for the strength of its academics. However, over the last few years, there has been a major revamping of its liberal arts/academic offerings and today the L.A. program is much stronger and more rigorous, offering a multitude of classes ranging from social sciences, literature and languages even to calculus. Moreover, even within the BFA track classes, there is a heavy emphasis on reading of literature, research papers and other writing. There also appears to be a shift in the type of student applying with far greater numbers of high academic students with GPA's, AP and Honors classes and standardized test scores that in terms of "public perception" would normally be more associated with excellent, highly competitive more traditional academic schools. I would expect that UArts is not the only BFA program that has experienced this type of shift in demographics and such changes can't help but promote continuing and increasing academic rigor in BFA programs.</p>

<p>Finally, I think its worth noting that many BFA programs are now also focusing on how an education in the arts can be integrated into the more mainstream economy. I think there is a growing recognition that students with a degree in the arts should and must be able to compete in a world economy in venues that may be outside the traditional venues for their art. Again, only because I am familiar with it, UArts has established a well funded center/initiative called The Corzo Center for a Creative Economy with this express mission. Again, I would think that there are many other schools/institutions that are devoted significant resources to programs that will assist students in drawing upon their arts education to successfully participate in a broader spectrum of our economy.</p>

<p>Just some thoughts.</p>

50

<p>Good points, Michael. I know two DAs who went on to law school having earned BFAs from U Arts and U Mich several years ago. Another DA had a BFA in dance, but I don't recall her school.</p>

51

<p>My D will be attending Pace, a third tier university. She is one of those low-scoring (actually more mid-range) SATers who qualify for academic scholarship within this school. Her grade point average and SAT scores don't exactly jibe...and I know she is not an isolated example. She is smart, a good student and is feeling fortunate that she was accepted into a program that will nourish her academically, even if their standards are not up to par for some people.
My D's counselor at school was very impressed to see the class offerings available through the Honors College at Pace, and is thrilled for the level of academics that will be required of her...far more rigorous than most of the "top" programs she auditioned for.
As stated on here MANY times before, your education will be what YOU make of it.
Another thing about Pace....they have highly regarded masters programs in many areas, including one through their association with The Actor's Studio's MFA program.<br>
I have to think this type of educational opportunity for those with lower score SAT's is a godsend, and not simply an indication of inferiority.
I hope there are others here who agree.</p>

52

<p>U Arts may be putting more emphasis on liberal arts, but the average SAT is 1060. That's what MomofaPrincess, I think, is concerned about. It's certainly my concern. </p>

<p>For top students who are used to challenging courses & an academically talented peer group, those liberal arts courses may be a bit of a culture shock.</p>

53

<p>Triple, I toured Pace with D & was very impressed. My Wall Street brother always says his Pace interns are by far the best of any school in NYC (granted it's banking/finance, but I think it says something about the students Pace produces.)</p>

<p>I agree that education is what you make of it. I do have concerns, though. Maybe they are not justified, but it's something that's been nagging at me as I research this field.</p>

54

<p>The Pace law school also lists impressive notable alumni.</p>

55

<p>I don't think we should always equate SAT scores with intelligence/academic ability, though they are one indicator. But only one. I am among those who believe that, within some parameters, a kid's grades throughout high school will tell you more about that kid's work ethic, intelligence, drive and motivation than will scores on one standardized test, especially a standardized test that one can learn to take/conquer. Back when I was entering college, a student who scored 800 on the SAT made the national news. Now, so many kids are so prepped for the SAT from an early age that it's not uncommon to get a perfect score.
I also know a lot of very, very intelligent and creative people and not all of them were "perfect" students.</p>

56

<p>Interesting take on the process. Let's consider a couple of points. First, it sounds like Stickershock (and maybe Momofaprincess, too) is just beginning the process. We should all recall how we felt at the beginning. The confusion, insecurity and competition for the "big name, big recognition factor" schools. </p>

<p>Then, flip over to the "final decisions" thread and see how many of the applicants' decisions were for the "lesser" schools. Tons. That's because the odds are so steep. So while one may feel that one's child should be at the tippy top of the selection process, the brutal process will awaken us all.</p>

<p>Second, in the academic v. training concern: if your D has the stats to apply to one of the top academic programs, but not the talent, then the answer may be obvious. And some kids have the talent but not the academics. Why be shocked that MMC's average gpa and sats are not up to your academic standards? Some schools are, some aren't. Not every child is an AP student! And some are extremely talented. They will get the training their talent deserves, and the academic education that will suit them. If your D will be frustrated by the academics (you can get fantastic academics at a community college, btw) then the "lower academics, great training" schools are not for her.</p>

<p>Next, analyze how hard a college really is to get into. Most schools in the country, including SUNY Purchase, are accessible to those with a 3.0 an 1800 SATs. But to get into their BFA programs, SUNY Purchase for example had 800 applicants or more for their 20 spots. So that's what makes it so competitive. MMC has 600 applicants for 100 spots, pretty competitive in its own right, but academically it is very accessible. So what makes a school tops? How hard it is to get into if you aren't a BFA candidate? </p>

<p>Finally, look at your own peer group. Do you know where everyone went to college? And does the bigger name predict happiness or even financial success outside of the arts? Of course not. </p>

<p>Bottom line, go with the fit. If your D is academically strong, look at those schools. If she is talented too, she will find a place that will satisfy both aspects. And if she is one but not so much the other, there's a place for her to grow, learn, and become the fully realized person she is meant to be at the right school.</p>

57

<p>That's so true, Not Mama Rose! I do believe grades are a good indicator of work ethic.
My D will be attending Marymount in the fall and though it's not ranked so highly academically, we do feel it will offer her both a great liberal arts education and theater training. The school requires quite a wide range of liberal arts classes, as well as core classes in writing and public speaking.
One of her classmates is actually going to MMC for pre-med(biologymajor) with a minor in studio art. She was drawn to the small classes and attention, as well as the chance to keep her hand in art.
Also, colleges that are lower ranked academically are often much more generous with scholorships- which make it much easier to attend!
I think as the college process is getting so darn competitive, more top students are going to lower ranked colleges. Same with the MT process- heard so many wonderful talented kids at the auditions!</p>

58

<p>I know several kids who are mediocre students (B- to C averages and not Honor Society members) who got into Purchase for acting. I don't think it's known for academics, though it IS known for great actor training. For the ATP at Purchase, it's pretty much ALL about the audition. Period. </p>

<p>As Sally Brown so wisely said in "You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown" (the revival) "Clearly, not (every school can be) all things to all people." (Apologies to Miss Brown, by the way, for paraphrasing her line! She as talking about philosophies, and not schools/colleges/BFA programs:))</p>

<p>The bottom line is that one would hope his or her child would be accepted at a program that would provide good training and stimulating academics in an environment conducive to learning. Period.</p>

59

<p>
[quote]
So what makes a school tops? How hard it is to get into if you aren't a BFA candidate?

[/quote]
In my mind, that's part of the equation. It may not be for you, & that's fine.</p>

<p>D is a h.s. jr & she took an academic course at a local U that has a MT program. (Acceptance rate, I believe, for that program is about 5%. Certainly a competitive admissions situation.) It was a large lecture class & dozens of kids would sign in & sneak out. Dozens kept their laptops open to silly internet sites, like the cat/cheeseburger pictures, and took not a single note nor paid one bit of attention. When the term papers were returned, the professor just placed them on a desk & the kids retrieved them. As D thumbed through them to find hers, she noticed that every single student had earned a 20/20 grade. Not a single ink mark, correction, or suggestion was made on her work. Did she learn from the course? Absolutely. She enjoyed the content & it inspired her. But having to go through four years with unmotivated classmates & professors who seem to have thrown up their hands would be very demoralizing. I'm not a college snob, but there are huge differences in the quality of instruction & motivation of classmates from school to school. I don't think it's wrongheaded to assume that colleges with low SAT/GPA numbers for admitted students would tend to have fewer motivated students than schools with higher standards.</p>

60

<p>I was pointing out choices or options as you consider schools. We are through with this process and faced this and my daughter reached her own compromise. As Michael pointed out, the result may be going for a BA instead of a BFA. </p>

<p>Sometimes it seems people want a BFA at any cost. As has been mentioned here many times a BFA doesn't guarantee success. There are many successful BAs in the business too. So if you have a student qualified to attend a school like Brown or Yale or Middlebury, etc for a BA in Theatre - but their BFA option is a less prestigious or challenging school and further not even ranked in whatever you would consider the "top" of BFAs- which is the best program for them? That is an individual consideration people have to make. </p>

<p>It just seems to me that this hypothetical person with this choice would be getting more bang for the buck going for the BA at Yale - still getting good training - than going to a lesser school. Let me put it another way - let's assume that either way they are going to end up in the 90% unemployed sector of the business - which degree is going to give them more backup opportunities?</p>