<p>1250 1420 Georgia Institute of Technology-Main Campus % Submitting Score: 93%
1240 1450 College of William and Mary % Submitting Score: 94%
1230 1440 University of Virginia-Main Campus % Submitting Score: 97%
1230 1430 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor % Submitting Score: 36%
1210 1390 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill % Submitting Score: 96%
1200 1460 University of California-Berkeley % Submitting Score: 98%
1200 1430 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign % Submitting Score: 24%
1200 1390 University of Maryland-College Park % Submitting Score: 94%
1190 1350 SUNY at Binghamton % Submitting Score: 93%
1170 1400 University of Wisconsin-Madison % Submitting Score: 22%</p>
<p>Could you take some sort of measure which averages 25-SAT, 75-SAT, 25-ACT, and 75-ACT giving the 2 SATs and 2 ACT scores equal weights?</p>
<p>Its interesting that a ‘tech’ school (GIT) and W&M (a small university) are the top 2 in the first measure, but Georgia falls off in the other measures while W&M does not. Does than mean the SAT is math biased in comparison with the ACT? Or visa versa too.</p>
<p>Where are you getting this data from?</p>
<p>I think the ACT is a composite of 5 subscores only one of which is math. The SAT I used is 50% math.</p>
<p>The data is coming from the US Dept of Education IPEDS Data Center website, the “compare individual institutions” tool.</p>
<p>[IPEDS</a> Data Center](<a href=“http://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/datacenter/]IPEDS”>Use The Data)</p>
<p>Take note on how these schools treat SATs in relation to school admission.</p>
<p>Relative Importance of Application Elements:</p>
<p>UC Berkeley
Secondary School Record: Very Important
Class Rank: Not Considered
Talent/Ability: Important
Interview: Not Considered
Extracurricular Activities: Important
Volunteer Work: Important
Character/Personal Abilities: Important
Application Essay: Very Important
Work Experience: Important
SAT/ACT Scores: Important
Recommendations: Not Considered
High School GPA: Very Important</p>
<p>U of Virginia
Secondary School Record: Very Important
Class Rank: Very Important
Talent/Ability: Important
Interview: Not Considered
Extracurricular Activities: Important
Volunteer Work: Considered
Character/Personal Abilities: Important
Application Essay: Important
Work Experience: Considered
SAT/ACT Scores: Important
Recommendations: Very Important
High School GPA: Very Important</p>
<p>College of William and Mary
Secondary School Record: Very Important
Class Rank: Very Important
Talent/Ability: Very Important
Interview: Important
Extracurricular Activities: Very Important
Volunteer Work: Important
Character/Personal Abilities: Important
Application Essay: Very Important
Work Experience: Important
SAT/ACT Scores: Important
Recommendations: Important
High School GPA: Very Important</p>
<hr>
<p>University of Michigan
Secondary School Record: Very Important
Class Rank: Considered
Talent/Ability: Considered
Interview: Not Considered
Extracurricular Activities: Very Important
Volunteer Work: Very Important
Character/Personal Abilities: Very Important
Application Essay: Very Important
Work Experience: Considered
SAT/ACT Scores: Very Important
Recommendations: Very Important
High School GPA: Very Important</p>
<p>University of Texas at Austin
Secondary School Record: Very Important
Class Rank: Very Important
Talent/Ability: Very Important
Interview: Not Considered
Extracurricular Activities: Very Important
Volunteer Work: Very Important
Character/Personal Abilities: Very Important
Application Essay: Very Important
Work Experience: Very Important
SAT/ACT Scores: Very Important
Recommendations: Considered
High School GPA: Considered</p>
<p>UNC
Secondary School Record: Very Important
Class Rank: Important
Talent/Ability: Important
Interview: Not Considered
Extracurricular Activities: Very Important
Volunteer Work: Important
Character/Personal Abilities: Important
Application Essay: Very Important
Work Experience: Important
SAT/ACT Scores: Very Important
Recommendations: Very Important
High School GPA: Important</p>
<p>University of Maryland
Secondary School Record: Very Important
Class Rank: Important
Talent/Ability: Important
Interview: Not Considered
Extracurricular Activities: Considered
Volunteer Work: Considered
Character/Personal Abilities: Considered
Application Essay: Important
Work Experience: Considered
SAT/ACT Scores: Very Important
Recommendations: Important
High School GPA: Very Important</p>
<p>University of Texas at Austin
Secondary School Record: Very Important
Class Rank: Very Important
Talent/Ability: Very Important
Interview: Not Considered
Extracurricular Activities: Very Important
Volunteer Work: Very Important
Character/Personal Abilities: Very Important
Application Essay: Very Important
Work Experience: Very Important
SAT/ACT Scores: Very Important
Recommendations: Considered
High School GPA: Considered</p>
<p>Georgia Institute of Technology
Secondary School Record: Very Important
Class Rank: Not Considered
Talent/Ability: Important
Interview: Not Considered
Extracurricular Activities: Very Important
Volunteer Work: Important
Character/Personal Abilities: Important
Application Essay: Very Important
Work Experience: Important
SAT/ACT Scores: Very Important
Recommendations: Not Considered
High School GPA: Important</p>
<p>SUNY
Class Rank: Important
Talent/Ability: Important
Interview: Not Considered
Extracurricular Activities: Important
Volunteer Work: Considered
Character/Personal Abilities: Considered
Application Essay: Important
Work Experience: Considered
SAT/ACT Scores: Very Important
Recommendations: Important
High School GPA: Important</p>
<p>Colllegehelp,</p>
<p>Aside from Berkeley, which other State Us do not superscore SATs?</p>
<p>Michigan doesn’t superscore.</p>
<p>I am not sure which schools superscore. Maybe someone else can answer this.</p>
<p>RML, no Big 10 public university (including Michigan, UIUC and Wisconsin) superscore. None of the Big 12 schools (including Texas-Austin) superscore either, nor do any of the public SEC schools. UNC, UVa and W&M superscore.</p>
<p><a href=“https://umich.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/umich.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=160&p_created=1053364302&p_sid=IzWGPdWj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0yOTcsMjk3JnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9Mw!!&p_li=&p_topview=1[/url]”>https://umich.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/umich.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=160&p_created=1053364302&p_sid=IzWGPdWj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0yOTcsMjk3JnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ubCZwX3BhZ2U9Mw!!&p_li=&p_topview=1</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.virginia.edu/undergradadmission/prospectus/prospectusyou17.html[/url]”>http://www.virginia.edu/undergradadmission/prospectus/prospectusyou17.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/faqs/testing/index.php[/url]”>http://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/faqs/testing/index.php</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.admissions.unc.edu/ask_carolina.html?id=251[/url]”>http://www.admissions.unc.edu/ask_carolina.html?id=251</a></p>
<p>Furthermore, Michigan may list SAT/ACT as “very important” but that is not practiced. Michigan places much more weight on GPA than on the SAT/ACT. Up until 2005, Michigan used formula for admissions. Out of a total of 120 points, unweighed GPA counted for a total of 80 points. A 4.0 unweighed GPA would earn an applicant 80 points, a 3.9 unweighed GPA would earn an applicant 78 points, a 3.8 unweighed GPA would earn an applicant 76 points, a 3.7 GPA would earn an applicant 74 points etc… The SAT/ACT, in stark contrast, counted for a total of just 12 paltry points (race counted for 20 points, so even race was considered significantly more important than SA). Furthermore, all an applicant had to score on the SAT to get the full 12 points is a 1350+/1600. And a 1200-1340 counted for 11/12 points. </p>
<p>As such a 3.9 student with a perfect 1600 on the SAT would get fewer points (90) than a 4.0 student with a 1200 on the SAT (91 points). </p>
<p>This formula is no longer used, but there is absolutely no doubt that Michigan still values GPA far more than SAT/ACT.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>RML, could you please explain how one --after taking good note “on how these schools treat SATs in relation to school admission”-- should draw a conclusion on the items you selected for illustration. Since you listed Berkeley and the UT at Austin, please tell us how UT places a greater importance on the SAT in its admission policies than … Berkeley? </p>
<p>However, rather than let you scramble for an explanation and a futile attempt to explain the inexplicable, I will point out that admissions in Texas are based on school by school rank. It might not be such a bad idea for you to do some reading on the MUCH publicized legal wrangling regarding admissions in Michigan and Texas. </p>
<p>FYI, sooner or later you will find out that the “Application Elements” you quoted are nothing else than a bunch of … baloney resulting from willy-nilly answers provided by school officials. Not much different from what appears on some well known peer assessments!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Actually, that is not quite correct. Next year CDS (2010-2011) will use data for admission in the Fall of 2010 … something that does not exist yet. Although it is not unusual for the numbers shared by IPEDS to differ from the Common Data Sets’, Alexandre correctly pointed to the CDS for the year 2009-2010. This is pretty straightforward and not as confusing as the yearly labels used by USNews. </p>
<p>If there was any doubt, this should eliminate it:</p>
<p>From the 2009-2010 CDS</p>
<p>Percent and number of first-time, first-year students enrolled in fall 2009 who submitted national standardized (SAT/ACT) test scores. Include information for ALL enrolled, degree-seeking, first-time, first-year students who submitted test scores. Do not include partial test scores (e.g., mathematics scores but not critical reading for a category of students) or combine other standardized test results (such as TOEFL) in this item. Do not convert SAT scores to ACT scores and vice versa. The 25th percentile is the score that 25 percent scored at or below; the 75th percentile score is the one that 25 percent scored at or above.</p>
<p>On the other hand, one has to be careful in using the IPEDS data as there are (calendar) differences between the data offered to the public and the data shared with professionals who have access to the (restricted) preliminary data. Of course, the answer to the pointed question about the accuracy of the data reported to the CDS organization and the US government remains as cloudy as ever. Whatever one can get away with is probably right on the money! </p>
<p>By the way, RML will probably be thrilled to learn that Berkeley is reporting HIGHER SAT numbers on its CDS for 2009-2010. </p>
<p>25th Percentile 590 and 640
75th Percentile 710 and 760</p>
<p>See <a href=“http://cds.berkeley.edu/pdfs/DRAFT%20MASTER%20WORD%20DOC%2009-10.pdf[/url]”>http://cds.berkeley.edu/pdfs/DRAFT%20MASTER%20WORD%20DOC%2009-10.pdf</a></p>
<p>public universities ranked 12-65 based on ACT, sorted first by ACT 75th percentile</p>
<p>25 30 Clemson University
25 30 Ohio State University-Main Campus
25 30 University of Pittsburgh-Pittsburgh Campus
24 30 Texas A & M University
24 30 The University of Texas at Austin
24 30 The University of Texas at Dallas
24 30 University of California-San Diego
26 29 SUNY at Binghamton
25 29 University of Florida
24 29 Indiana University-Bloomington
24 29 Pennsylvania State University-Main Campus
24 29 The University of Tennessee
24 29 University of Colorado at Boulder
24 29 University of Connecticut
24 29 University of Georgia
24 29 University of Minnesota-Twin Cities
24 29 University of Washington-Seattle Campus
23 29 Auburn University Main Campus
23 29 Purdue University-Main Campus
23 29 University of Arkansas Main Campus
23 29 University of California-Santa Barbara
23 29 University of Oklahoma Norman Campus
22 29 University of Maryland-Baltimore County
22 29 University of Nebraska-Lincoln
24 28 Florida State University
24 28 Miami University-Oxford
24 28 Stony Brook University
24 28 University of Delaware
24 28 University of South Carolina-Columbia
24 28 University of Vermont
23 28 Louisiana State University and Agricultural & Mechanical College
23 28 Michigan Technological University
23 28 University of California-Irvine
23 28 University of Central Florida
23 28 University of Iowa
23 28 University of Massachusetts Amherst
23 28 University of Missouri-Columbia
22 28 Iowa State University
22 28 University of Alabama in Huntsville
22 28 University of California-Davis
22 28 University of South Florida
21 28 The University of Alabama
21 28 University of Missouri-Kansas City
23 27 George Mason University
23 27 Michigan State University
23 27 SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry
23 27 University at Buffalo
22 27 Colorado State University
22 27 North Carolina State University at Raleigh
22 27 Oklahoma State University-Main Campus
22 27 University of California-Santa Cruz
22 27 University of Cincinnati-Main Campus
22 27 University of Kansas
22 27 University of Kentucky</p>
<p>In a few words, this is the most useless waste of bandwith.</p>
<p>Wisconsin just published a study of freshmen at UW. Before you get all jiggy about the differences in test scores, UW found it one of the least useful predictors of actual grades–ties with the results on the English placement exam given to all freshmen. It’s about as significant as whether or not you drink Starbucks before going to class. So to assume that relatively small differences in scores will have any impact on your class experiences is stupid. The guy with the 1200 is just about as likely to beat you on a test is the guy with the 1500. </p>
<p>“Two, the most commonly used academic preparation control variable, the ACT score, is not the best
predictor of first semester GPA, at least in this analysis. Consistent with other analyses we have
conducted, high school GPA is a much stronger predictor, possibly because it is finer grained than an
ACT score and/or because grading in high school is similar to grading in college. The English placement
test score is a consistent positive predictor in most models, possibly because students need to use
reading, writing, and other communication skills in all classes. A student’s math placement test score is
not a significant predictor and was not used in the final regression model. However, a different mathrelated
variable, whether the student took and scored well on the AP calculus exams, proved to be a
significant positive predictor of first semester GPA and remained in the final regression model.”</p>
<p>Binary Logistic Regression Odds Ratios for Predicting Specified First Semester GPA Thresholds
Dependent Variable (Binary)
Independent Variables 2.00 or Over 2.50 or Over 3.00 or Over 3.50 or Over
Academic Preparation Variables
• English Placement Test Score 1.004 1.002 1.003 1.004
• High School GPA 6.762 6.716 8.013 12.822
• High School AP Calculus 2.148 1.925 1.592 1.514
• ACT/SAT Score 1.012 1.055 1.077 1.078
Total Students 10,977 10,977 10,977 10,977</p>
<p>^^^This is why Wisky is one of the best research universities on the planet!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, I might have to agree with Barrons on the uselessness of this thread, but for different reasons. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Has this issue not been beaten to death? Is it realy surprising that a study based on students enrolled at a university that relies mostly on regional applicants can use GPA as a strong(er) predictor of success in college? On the other hand, for schools that recruit on a national basis and DO need to be able to separate inflated GPAs from normal ones and analyze different state “grading” policies, the COMBINATION of GPA and SAT remains the golden standard. </p>
<p>And, before anyone gives much credence to studies such as the one quoted above, it might be important to review the comical history of “mercenary studies” and uses of standardized tests at the University of California. What is the most recent position du jour In California? It the SAT still on life support or are the Subject Tests still the new darlings? In the meantime, we can all thank the California morons for the expanded SAT version that costs more and accomplishes little to nothing.</p>
<p>barrons-
Among public universities at which at least 25% of the students submitted ACT scores, the correlation between ACT 25th percentile and freshman retention rate is +.84, which is very high. The ACTs are a very useful predictor of success in college.</p>
<p>The reason the researchers at Wisconsin failed to discover the strong relationship between ACT and college success is because they analyzed individual students rather that groups of students. There are many factors that affect the success of individual students that the university can’t control very well: substance abuse, lonliness, family worries, mental health issues, and so on. By analyzing groups of students and using average ACT scores for the group and using retention or graduation percentages for the group, the strength of the relationship reveals itself. If Wisconsin is interested in raising average GPAs or raising graduation and retention rates, then they could raise ACT score requirements.</p>
<p>By analyzing groups of students, you can control for extraneous variables.</p>
<p>The Wisconsin researchers could calculate the correlation for, say, 20 freshman classes between average ACT scores and retention or graduation rates or average GPAs. Then they would see the value of ACT scores.</p>
<p>The Stanford U and the entire UC system have made the same mistake.</p>
<p>@collegehelp, it is hard to believe what you said, everything above. Obviously you have not taught students. You can pass all or fail all students, depending on how you set the standards, nothing to do with their ACT or SAT scores.</p>
<p>They studied nearly 11,000 students–every freshman for two years. I doubt there was much bias of any sort in the sample which would mean you could be pretty sure of the results. And they were not looking just at retention but actual results. High scorers did get better grades but mostly because they had higher grades too. And grades were FAR better predicting results.</p>
<p>Link to full study, first one on list. </p>
<p>[UW-Madison</a> Academic Planning & Analysis](<a href=“http://apa.wisc.edu/]UW-Madison”>http://apa.wisc.edu/)</p>
<p>ewho-
Faculty might be able to control who fails but, in actual practice, the ACT (and SAT) reliably predict success in college. When faculty change standards, they change for all students equally.</p>
<p>barrons,
Thanks for the link. I’ll read it as soon as I have time.</p>
<p>I was not saying that the Wisconsin sample was bad. What I was trying to say is that, if you take 100 universities and calculate the correlation between ACTs and retention rates or graduation rates or average GPA, then you find a very high correlation. (Or 20 freshman classes) The difficulty is when you analyze the data for individual students rather than aggregate data for groups of students. There is a lot more “error” involved with individual students. It is harder to predict outcomes for individuals than for groups.</p>
<p>If you take 100 students who all have 30 on the ACT, they will finish their freshman year with different GPAs. But, if you take 100 students each year with ACT scores of 30 and calculate their average GPA for each of 20 years, their average group GPAs will be very stable. It is a statistical problem pertaining to which units you analyze.</p>
<p>I can believe that HS GPA might be a better predictor than ACTs but ACTs are themselves a very good predictor for aggregate data (and they are standardized for all high school students regardless of grading standards, as xiggi said).</p>