<p>I don't think anyone would disagree that they are stressful and hard, but he just said it in a really really idiotic way...</p>
<p>U.S. Institutions With the Most Rhodes Scholars Per Year (1947-2006) 1947-1998 1999-2003 2004-2006 Totals (rough)
Harvard University 4.7 2.8 3.0 315
Yale University 2.9 1.8 2.0 166
Princeton University 2.3 1.0 0.7 126
United States Military Academy 1.1 2.0 1.0 70
Stanford University 1.1 0.8 1.7 65
University of Virginia 1.0 1.0 1.3 59
Duke University 0.4 1.3 2 40
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 0.7 0.3 0.7 39
Dartmouth College 0.7 0.3 0.3 39
United States Naval Academy 0.5 0.2 2.3 34
United States Air Force Academy 0.6 0.2 0.3 33
University of Chicago 0.4 1.0 2.0 32
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 0.4 0.8 0.7 27 </p>
<p>Now try being a Rhodes scholar while being a Cadet at West Point or a Mid at Annapolis. These civilian schools are excellent schools, but i would submit that if I had to choose who had the most stressful task, the student at a top civilian university who's day is centered around academics, with the option to relax on weekends and evenings, etc., or the cadet at West Point or Mid at Annapolis who rises at 5am, exercises till 7, attends classes till 3pm, participates in a varsity sport or club team until 5 or 6pm, eats dinner with 4000 other cadets/mids, then studies in his/her room untill midnight, 5 days a week, has mandatory activities they must participate in on most weekends, no summers off, I would submit the cadet or mid has the more stressful academic experience.<br>
If I had to choose whether the average Harvard student could survive West Point or the average West Pointer could survive at Harvard, my money is on the Cadet.</p>
<p>LFWB dad has got it mostly correct, except for the order. West Point is number one. The rest follow closely behind and way ahead of those coddling "civilian" schools.</p>
<p>Why do I say that? Because with a graduating class of less than a thousand students the class of 2006 includes two Marshall, one Rhodes, two Gates-Cambridge, two Truman, four East-West, and two Fulbright winners.</p>
<p>Last year US News and World Report rated West Point as number two in the nation for undergraduate civil engineering and number three for mechanical engineering. But West Point grads are much more than engineers because their education is a very broadly based liberal arts program designed to train world leaders. An undergraduate degree from West Point without an emphasis in pre-med or pre-law still satisfies the pre-med and pre-law requirements for graduate study in those fields. Most graduates will begin their first jobs leading combat ready troops within the world’s hotspots including Iraq, Afghanistan, and South Korea. There are no pansies at West Point, or for that matter, at any of the other service academy schools.</p>
<p>How does that happen? Hard work and lots of study. Now for you naysayers, give me one example of another similarly sized graduating class with close to that level of accomplishment and responsibility.</p>
<p>And by the way, while you’re scratching your heads, alumni include Ulysses S. Grant, Robert E. Lee, Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, George S. Patton, Omar Bradley, Douglas MacArthur, and Dwight Eisenhower. More recent graduates include Frank Borman (commander of the first circumlunar flight; president of Eastern Airlines), Edwin E. "Buzz" Aldrin (participated in the first manned lunar landing), Edward White II (first American to walk in space), Michael Collins (command module pilot, first manned lunar landing),...the list is endless but you get the idea. Good luck.</p>
<p>That's because the average Harvard person wouldn't choose to go there. But I do 100% agree that a cadet's life is extremely challenging.</p>
<p>Do you know who the only person to graduate there without a demerit was? ;)</p>
<p>ps...its like u guys are comparing apples with oranges.</p>
<p>Figgy, I'm sure LFWP dad's post was "tongue in cheek", as was mine, so don't take offense; you know how parents can be about their childrens schools.</p>
<p>BTW, what does "lmao" mean? My boy's still at Beast and so my resourse for young people speak isn't available.</p>
<p>"Do you know who the only person to graduate there without a demerit was?"</p>
<p>A lot of people think it was Lee, but actually Lee's classmate Charles Mason had a record equally as pristine which is why he graduated ahead of Lee, first in the class of 1829.</p>
<p>George Washington Cullum, class of 1833, graduated 3rd in his class, and also had no demerits.</p>
<p>George Herbert Pegram, also class of 1833, had no demerits but he graduated 31st in the class.</p>
<p>Those of you who wear class rings can thank West point also---the first class rings were worn by the class of 1835--you can see examples of these class rings at:</p>
<p>GO ARMY!! BEAT NAVY!!!</p>
<p>lol ya my point was that the one to graduate without demerits was the leader of the army trying to break away from America ;)</p>
<p>lmao is laugh my @$$ off</p>
<p>Congrats on ur children that are going to one of these schools!</p>
<p>"That's because the average Harvard person wouldn't choose to go there"</p>
<p>No offense meant, but in reality the average harvard person couldn't get accepted at West Point or Annapolis. Many would make the academic cut, but most wouldn't make the physical or medical qualifications. More than a few wouldn't even try to hang with the application process as a whole. It takes being qualified in all three areas (and then competing for a noimination) to be appointed.</p>
<p>...thanks for emphasizing what I just said? heh</p>
<p>Figgy, you're correct about the average Harvard student not choosing West Point. But then West Point wouldn’t necessarily accept the average Harvard student. I don’t mean they don’t qualify academically - they certainly do - but there’s the matter of medical and physical condition that eliminates most but the top athletes from consideration.</p>
<p>In fact, the average student from any school would never choose to go to any of the service academies; it's far too rigorous, rigid, there’s too much d___ studying (the origin of this thread), and then there's that five year commitment to the armed forces. But I have had the pleasure to have met a young woman who was offered a full ride at Harvard and turned it down to attend West Point; she gave an introduction talk to West Point candidates when my son went to visit this past winter. They are truly a rare breed apart.</p>
<p>Dang shogun, you're always a couple of keystrokes ahead of me!</p>
<p>Depending on the context of what the 'stress' is, I go along with LFWB dad and I don't have a kid attending the academies (but I used to live in Colo Springs and my friend went to West Point so I'm familiar with it). These might be termed more rigorous than stressful though because rigor is more quantifiable and stress is really a symptom that'll vary with everyone. Some of the students there really like the rigor and discipline and thus aren't stressed by it. </p>
<p>The stress also varies a lot by major within the school. Some majors within a school are much easier than other majors within the same school so there should be a large variance of rigor within a school.</p>
<p>When my husband was a cadet, he was stressed. 10 years later when he was on the faculty, we sponsored cadets. They were stressed. My daughter's peer are now in Beast. They haven't had academics yet, but I would be willing to bet they are suffering a little stress right now as well.</p>
<p>West Point has one of the most set schedules of any school in terms of overall academic requirements. Everybody (even the token English major) has to take Thermodynamics, Calculus, some engineering etc. Everybody has to take a foreign language. If you are fluent in a 2nd language, you will be taking a third. During the Cold War, the most popular choice was Russian. Ever since Desert Storm, it's been Arabic. Cadets get very few electives.</p>
<p>Yes it was tongue in cheek. And I appreciate how tough some civilian schools can be.</p>
<p>I put USMMA first for two reasons, 1) S goes there, but 2) and this is the big differentiator, they have to cram the same four years of academic course work of the other academies into 3 years on campus, because to graduate they have to spend 360 days at sea. They are on an 11 month academic calendar and are taking 20 24 credits a trimester. It gets pretty stressful.</p>
<p>For the record, my father-in-law is West Point Class of 50 and he thinks the cadets today have it easy he didnt get to leave post until Christmas his 3rd class year.</p>
<p>But I think wed all agree that Zoomies have it the easiest! ;-)</p>
<p>For me, I can't weigh the stress factor between civvy colleges & service academies too well. Service academies are a horse of a different color. Older son studied butt off at USC (the real one Shogun :) ) to become an engineer while figuring out how to brew beer in his bathroom & playing guitar while wearing a shirt that hadn't been washed in three weeks. Dorm room was a fire hazard & he skipped classes to go to the beach sometimes... Younger son at USMMA goes to school 11 months out of the year and did 52 credits in that 11 months all while standing watches, scrubbing floors, having room inspected with white gloves, shining shoes, ironing uniforms, doing physical training, going to class sick as a dog, sticking to all the rules & regs of regimental lifestyle while averaging 4-5 hours of sleep at night. No easy classes such as German films & directors like older son made me pay for. LOL Having kids that have been challenged in both worlds leads me to believe older son had 1/2 the stress. Having not been too educated on service academies until younger son went, I've pretty much decided that these kids are not like us mere mortals.</p>
<p>As long as people don't pretend the academies are harder to get into than HYPSM...which they are not, thats fine</p>
<p>In terms of intellect needed, I'd say MIT or CIT would be the hardest, followed by other tech/engineering schools</p>
<p>The service academies might be stressful, but thats becuase partying and destressing isn't allowed, not because their academics are top notch</p>
<p>
[quote]
As long as people don't pretend the academies are harder to get into than HYPSM...which they are not, thats fine
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Here is how hard it is to get into the Ivies and other top schools compared to the service academies.</p>
<p>US News 2006 Acceptance Rates</p>
<p>School Percent </p>
<p>Yale University (CT) 10%
United States Naval Academy (MD)* 10%
Harvard University (MA) 11%
United States Military Academy (NY)* 13%
Princeton University (NJ) 13%
Stanford University (CA) 13%
Columbia University (NY) 13%
United States Air Force Acad. (CO)* 13%
Massachusetts Inst. of Technology 16%
Brown University (RI) 17%
Dartmouth College (NH) 19%
Williams College (MA) 19%
California Institute of Technology 21%
U.S. Merchant Marine Acad. (NY)* 21%
Amherst College (MA) 21%
University of Pennsylvania 21%
United States Coast Guard Acad. (CT)* 22%
University of California–Berkeley * 25%
Cornell University (NY) 29% </p>
<p>Also, this year, the Naval Academy had more Rhodes Scholars than any other school in the country - 4 - so the academics must be OK.</p>
<p>thethoughtprocess, couldn't you come up with something interesting to add to the conversation? Common, do your research, you can do better than that?</p>
<p>thethoughtproces, ok so maybe my last post was a bit harsh; I hadn't had my coffee yet. We've gone over the admissions and academics so let me help you with the partying. Have a look at this cadets web page and check out the photographs to see partying West Point style:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.westpointcadet.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.westpointcadet.com/</a></p>