<p>What is Cal's rival school? Cal students seem to think it's Stanford, but Stanford students consider Harvard their rival school.</p>
<p>Berkeley and Stanford are rivals. Harvard and Yale are rivals. :)</p>
<p>Duh. To Stanford, Harvard is no competition.</p>
<p>newyorka/ well, he says he goes to stanford, so i guess you shouldn't be the one deciding whom stanford students should consider as their rival.</p>
<p>and besides, you are going a lil overboard with your arguments anyway. aren't you a HS senior?</p>
<p>in other words, you are just getting plain annoying.</p>
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newyorka/ well, he says he goes to stanford, so i guess you shouldn't be the one deciding whom stanford students should consider as their rival.</p>
<p>and besides, you are going a lil overboard with your arguments anyway. aren't you a HS senior?</p>
<p>in other words, you are just getting plain annoying.
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<p>He does not represent the entire undergraduate, graduate, and alumni body of Stanford.</p>
<p>That newyorka's opinions, questions, or arguments are worth less due to his age and seniority is irrelevant and insulting.</p>
<p>I'm merely arguing on his behalf because I happen to have just graduated from high school myself.</p>
<p>Evey ivy thinks of Harvard as their rival. Honestly, Cal undergrad is no rival of Stanford's today, the perspective is historical. I have 2 sibs at Stanford ho think the only rivalry is the once a year football game.</p>
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That newyorka's opinions, questions, or arguments are worth less due to his age and seniority is irrelevant and insulting.
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<p>more than seniority's sake, i just found it annoying that he's going overboard to belittle a nationally well-respected university when he's not even attending one yet. i mean even if he was a harvard student, that kind of attitude would still be presumptuous, more so if he's not even attending any of the colleges in his "prestigious list" yet.</p>
<p>now, i have never lived in cali or attended UCB, but i respect it alot more than what he thinks it deserves.</p>
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Evey ivy thinks of Harvard as their rival. Honestly, Cal undergrad is no rival of Stanford's today, the perspective is historical. I have 2 sibs at Stanford ho think the only rivalry is the once a year football game.
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<p>You're arguing semantics here--when I say "rival," it's the tradition of competition that arises between two universities that are generally seen as peers and tend to be geographically close. SJSU is much closer to Stanford than Berkeley, but it's definitely not Stanford's peer, so it isn't a rival; and in the eyes of the academia, Berkeley and Stanford are peers. So they are rivals, traditionally. True, the main time that the rivalry is apparent is during Big Game week, but there is friendly rivalry all the time.</p>
<p>You know which use of "rival" I'm using here--the same that describes the relationships between USC and UCLA, between Harvard and Yale, between Cambridge and Oxford, between Northwestern and Chicago... as you can see, oftentimes the rivalry extends beyond athletics and into academics. :)</p>
<p>So Berkeley:Stanford :: UMass:Harvard ??</p>
<p>Thanks Kwu, but I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion even if it's:) Did I say that?</p>
<p>Now I get you XJ, you haven't seen Cal. I do live in CA part time and extensively visited Cal.</p>
<p>Kyle, until the past few decades Stanford was a regional school and Cal was it's peer institution. Stanford has changed a lot for the better in recent decades. Cal has declined in the same time frame. That's my only point.</p>
<p>No, it's Yale:Harvard</p>
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Berkeley:Stanford :: UMass:Harvard
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<p>As I said, generally, rivals are a) close to one another, and b) seen as academic peers. UMass is not considered an academic peer to Harvard. Thus, it isn't a rival. Sometimes, the universities are farther away, but they're still considered rivals--hence, Harvard and Yale.</p>
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Thanks Kwu, but I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion even if it's Did I say that?
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<p>I agree that your statements, not you, should be evaluated, but you shouldn't be attempting to twist my meaning based on words that have multiple meanings (like "rival"). :)</p>
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until the past few decades Stanford was a regional school and Cal was it's peer institution. Stanford has changed a lot for the better in recent decades. Cal has declined in the same time frame.
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<p>Evidence that Cal has declined? It seems to me that it too has gotten stronger. It still has its Nobel Laureates, still has cutting-edge research (with discoveries that affect the world), still recruits the best scholars from around the world.</p>
<p>And Stanford may have been regional in its applicants, but it definitely has been international in its recognition for more than a few decades. I agree, though, that it has improved substantially in the past few decades; and in the past 20 years, it's improved its undergrad greatly (before, having been considered primarily a graduate-focused school).</p>
<p>USNWR Peer Assessment Score:
Stanford: 4.9
Berkeley: 4.8</p>
<p>National Academy of Science Members:
Stanford: 126
Berkeley: 127</p>
<p>National Academy of Engineering Members:
Stanford: 86
Berkeley: 75</p>
<p>
Number of Top Five Programs in the Sciences and Humanities (Americas Best Graduate Schools 2009) 12---Berkeley 11---Stanford
</p>
<p>USNWR Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs:
(At schools whose highest degree is a doctorate)
Rank/School/Peer assessment score (5.0 = highest):
2. Stanford University (CA) 4.7
2. University of CaliforniaBerkeley * 4.7</p>
<p>UCBChemGrad -- I'm not sure if this is exactly what others feel, but I'll give my opinion. I think what people are saying is essentially that what you learn in the classroom may be very similar at Stanford and Berkeley, but that Stanford trumps Berkeley in what you learn outside the classroom, from your peers. Stanford trumps Berkeley in the quality of their students.</p>
<p>Princeton
Harvard
Yale
Stanford
Columbia
Penn
MIT
CalTech
UChicago
Duke
UC Berkeley
John's Hopkins
Brown
Dartmouth
Cornell</p>
<p>WUSTL, Rice, and Northwestern would be next in line.</p>
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Stanford trumps Berkeley in the quality of their students.
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Average Stanford undergrad students are at a higher than level than Berkeley's, considering SAT score averages...I agree.</p>
<p>But, Cal and Stanford are peers on so many levels.</p>
<p>Stanford's total undergrad population is about ~6,700.
Berkeley's total undergrad population is about ~23,000. There are more high SAT scoring students at Cal than any Ivy league college and Stanford.</p>
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IMO the overlap lies in the many, many kids who are at Cal because they didn't get into an ivy nor top LAC.</p>
<p>Consider that Cal gives no advantage to legacies or URMs. Then consider the considerably lower SAT scores vs, top colleges. Itis MUCH easier to tget into than a top 20 private.
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<p>Newyorka, wow. So this is probably overlap with what Kyle David’s been saying (you’re awesome, btw) but I seriously beg to differ. I got into some pretty top privates and I’m choosing Berkeley over them. The same goes for a lot of kids I met at orientation and ohp who were either seriously debating or had already selected Cal over other difficult schools. </p>
<p>Cal NOT giving advantage to legacies or urms actually makes it more difficult to get in to because every one is fighting on their own merits. </p>
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How can something be prestigious if it has high acceptance rates?</p>
<p>Then it's easier to get in and people don't ooh and aah
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<p>Jmanco, Berkeley has an acceptance rate that hovers around 20% (same as some ivies) and it was probably lower this year because of how large the ’08 class is. It’s acceptance rate really doesn’t have a great amount to do with prestige. We’re the top public school in the nation and possibly the world. The professors at Cal are so amazingly brilliant and could teach at any other school (many have taught at ivies and top privates) but they always find their way back to Cal because we’re boss. Honestly, people still “ooh and aah” about Berkeley because they know the great quality of both undergrads and grads it turns out. Apparently, it’s pretty prestigious in Britain as well and a Cal grad finding their way over there would be preferable to a Harvard grad.</p>
<p>"We’re the top public school in the nation and possibly the world"</p>
<p>*Definitely in the nation...not in the world. That distinction probably belongs to Oxbridge.</p>
<p>"Apparently, it’s pretty prestigious in Britain as well and a Cal grad finding their way over there would be preferable to a Harvard grad."</p>
<p>*It's quite prestigious all over the world and I'd argue that it beats out many ivies in name recognition abroad, but Harvard isn't one of them and a Cal grad would not likely be preferred over a Harvard grad.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Harvard</p></li>
<li><p>Yale</p></li>
<li><p>Princeton</p></li>
<li><p>Stanford</p></li>
<li><p>MIT</p></li>
<li><p>Columbia</p></li>
<li><p>Dartmouth</p></li>
<li><p>Penn</p></li>
<li><p>Brown</p></li>
<li><p>Cornell</p></li>
<li><p>Duke</p></li>
<li><p>Northwestern</p></li>
<li><p>Georgetown</p></li>
<li><p>Berkeley</p></li>
<li><p>Johns Hopkins</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Some of you clearly don't understand what the word "prestige" means. Prestige is essentially a combination of reputation, name recognition, and selectivity. I cannot fathom how anybody here can have UChicago, WUStL, Caltech, or Rice on his or her list. Anyone who believes any of the aforementioned schools are top-15 caliber are either delusional or just don't understand the definition of the word "prestige." UChicago, WUSTL, Caltech, and Rice simply do not carry an elite level of prestige, because very few people in this country have heard of these schools. They are tremendous universities ((albeit WUStl (profoundly overrated)) and they are extremely selective, but average "laypeople" have never even heard of these schools. To anybody reading this, do me a favor: walk on the street and ask ten random people if they've heard of Washington University of St. Louis. Have fun analyzing the results.</p>
<p>"Anyone who believes any of the aforementioned schools are top-15 caliber are either delusional or just don't understand the definition of the word "prestige."" </p>
<p>So, then what are you talking about? Caliber or layman's prestige? The two have a small correlation. If you are talking about caliber, then I am laughing my ass off.</p>