<p>Top-15 caliber in terms of prestige</p>
<p>2G1C4L, most of the schools on your list do not carry layman's prestige. Do you honestly think laymen recognize Brown, Dartmouth or Northwestern? NO WAY! They are more likely to recognize USC, Notre Dame and Georgetown. But who cares about layman's prestige anyway. Layman's opinions on education are worth nothing. Prestige matters only in educated circles. In such circles, Chicago rocks.</p>
<p>
[quote]
To anybody reading this, do me a favor: walk on the street and ask ten random people if they've heard of Washington University of St. Louis. Have fun analyzing the results.
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</p>
<p>Prestige is regional. It depends where you are. Just because northeasterners might not know WUSTL means nothing.</p>
<p>i'm honestly sick of having to argue Berkeley's merits with people who probably wouldn't get into Berkeley instate and would 95% chance of rejection by Berkeley out of state. I actually would agree that most people will chose top privates over Cal, but in all honesty I know many people who turn down privates for Cal. On my floor alone there was two people who turned down Columbia, met a kid from mexico last night who turned down stanford and yale for cal, and one of my good friends turned down yale because she wants to be involved in mcb research. Yale can't hold a stick to Berkeley in mcb research and she felt she needed to grow as a person and Berkeley was a better fit for both her major and her personal goals.</p>
<p>^^ who the heck are you arguing with? no one's dissing Berkeley. you're going to incite arguments when you make offensive statements (i.e. Yale can't hold a stick to.., and when you imply that one can't "grow as a person" if they go to Yale).</p>
<p>
[quote]
On my floor alone there was two people who turned down Columbia, met a kid from mexico last night who turned down stanford and yale for cal, and one of my good friends turned down yale because she wants to be involved in mcb research. Yale can't hold a stick to Berkeley in mcb research and she felt she needed to grow as a person and Berkeley was a better fit for both her major and her personal goals.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How do you know for fact that they didn't pick Berkeley over those schools because of FINANCE? There's a reason why Texas and Oklahoma are among those with the largest number of NMFs.</p>
<p>^^^ If you can't genuinley afford a private school, they are able to give out much more generous financial aid packages-- esp. the ivies.
I'm gonna guess she knows their reasons because she actually knows the people...but that's just me.</p>
<ol>
<li>Penn</li>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>Georgetown</li>
<li>Notre Dame</li>
<li>Pitt</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon</li>
<li>UNC</li>
<li>NYU</li>
<li>Syracuse</li>
<li>Rutgers</li>
<li>UConn</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Vanderbilt</li>
<li>Texas</li>
</ol>
<p>^ Ha, you must have a sense of humor...or be loco...or both?</p>
<p>
[quote]
I get put down a lot on these threads for boosting up Notre Dame, but how many people in the country dont know that Notre Dame is a good school? I would argue that although we are overappreciated in the general public, in academic circles we are underappreciated because of our Catholic affiliation and our football team. Many academics cant seem to understand how a sports culture can coexist with an academic one. They have never been here, and they will never understand it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>first surprise...</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am completely with you on Notre Dame. Don’t ever feel you have to apologize for the quality of the students or the academics or the prestige of Notre Dame. It is a terrific school, (but don’t expect the academics to ever recognize that) and extremely well regarded in the business community. In certain markets, eg Chicago, ND would be one of the five most prestigious colleges in the country. And the name recognition that ND has (whether formed by their football team or their strong academic history/record among Catholics and others across the country) is surpassed by very, very few colleges. I would say that outside of the Northeast, only HYP among the Ivies, has more or equal prestige than ND.
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<p>Notre Dame compliments on CC? This is unheard of!</p>
<p>ND is a strong school, no doubt, but when rankings tout it as better than schools like Michigan, Berkeley, etc., it becomes a subject of debate.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Many academics cant seem to understand how a sports culture can coexist with an academic one.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think they do--ever heard of Stanford? Its strong athletics and strong academics are accepted just fine.</p>
<p>Why place such emphasis on prestige? Whats most important is the best fit for each student, and the actual quality of the education, not merely prestige or recognition. </p>
<p>Think beyond the name! Where will you be happiest? What's most important is that students think honestly about which colleges provide the right match for them. It's important to look beyond the tier and to research thoroughly the academics, commitment to education, availability of good mentoring and advising, quality of teaching (do the faculty value teaching? will you be taught mostly by TAs?), culture, opportunities, values, social life, etc offered at various colleges.</p>
<p>Remember:</p>
<ol>
<li>You dont need to get into the ivy league to be successful in life. </li>
<li>The ratings from the US News & World Report are misleading and lead to a marketing of colleges rather than illuminating true quality and educational value.</li>
<li>The college/university you graduate from does not determine who you are and how you contribute to the world.</li>
</ol>
<p>Consider these earlier posts: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/491954-don-t-let-prestige-lead-you-wrong-college-please-3.html?highlight=hawkette%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/491954-don-t-let-prestige-lead-you-wrong-college-please-3.html?highlight=hawkette</a></p>
<p>and the work of the Education Conservancy, a non profit committed to improving the college admissions process: Education</a> Conservancy</p>
<p>and the book, College Unranked: College</a> Unranked</p>
<p>Most "laymen" confuse Northeastern and Northwestern, call it John Hopkins, think Penn is where Joe Paterno coaches, and never heard of Brown, Dartmouth, or MIT. I'd say the only 3 colleges which just about everybody in the country could tell you at least a little about are Harvard, Notre Dame, and West Point. After that, you need to pick your demographis (egghead intellectuals, old money, Wall Steet hustlers, beach bums) in order to have any coherent basis for prestige.</p>
<p>tourguide446/ i agree almost 100% except what you said about Notre Dame. Seriously, it's not that well-known like the people in your region think.</p>
<p>where was that school again? i don't even know if it's in west coast or east coast, or if it's in neither. i seriously never heard of it until i came to this site.</p>
<p>i have heard at least once the name of all the colleges that are in top 20 on USNWR that most laypeople seem not to know unless you are from that region (Rice, WUSTL, UChicago, JHU, Northwestern) but even then the name of ND is like a rude awakening to me.</p>
<p>...and no, if someone knows Harvard, more so if they know Notre Dame, then they definitely know MIT. claiming MIT is not well-known to laypeople is simply being delusional.</p>
<p>yeah it's #19 I believe, so you missed it.</p>
<p>so i def did. (10 char)</p>
<p>xjis, I don't know which "laypeople" you're mixing with. I've lived all over the country (including Honolulu, San Francisco, Chicago, Detroit, Boston), and everybody knows Notre Dame, even if it's just from sports. One of their main sports rivals is in Los Angeles (USC), they cultivated a fierce rivalry with the U of Miami, and it's very popular among the NY/NJ crowd. Doesn't get much more national than that. Notre Dame has also been mentioned or featured prominently in a bunch of movies, perhaps only exceeded by those featuring Harvard and West Point. Notre Dame football even has NBC as its own network...that is, NBC broadcasts college football, but only Notre Dame football. No other college in the country has such a deal, and only Notre Dame has wide enough national appeal to pull off something like that. <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/sports/ncaafootball/20sandomir.html?_r=1&oref=slogin%5B/url%5D">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/sports/ncaafootball/20sandomir.html?_r=1&oref=slogin</a></p>
<p>And very few laymen know of MIT, unless you're finding your laymen in Ann Arbor, Berkeley, and Amherst.</p>
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And very few laymen know of MIT, unless you're finding your laymen in Ann Arbor, Berkeley, and Amherst.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sorry to contradict you, but that just isn't true.</p>
<p>The "appeal" of ND's football program is, however, somewhat of an enigma (or savvy marketing) -- its program hasn't been a legitimate national title contender for about a decade (including a current record of 9 straight bowl game losses). ND's last championship came back in 1988 -- 20 years ago when Reagan was fighting the Soviets.</p>
<p>Ask Regis Philbin about the TV deal. :D</p>
<p>The "appeal" of ND's football program might be an enigma, but the answer could be that Notre Dame is a school that leaves few neutral. Many people just love to see them win and many more love to see them lose. By design or by desire, Notre Dame football has become an icon of the spirit of Catholics in this country. </p>
<p>And, of course, there are the stories about Rudy or a certain Joe Montana.</p>