<p>Tier 1: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, Caltech, and Berkeley (assuming we're including Ph.D. programs)
Tier 2: Columbia, Penn, Dartmouth, U Chicago, Brown, Cornell
Tier 3: Duke, Johns Hopkins, WUSTL</p>
<p>Not to mention Stanford academics (in terms of top faculty, top departments, top programs, top students, top facilities, top research) >> Duke academics.</p>
<p>And overall athletics at Stanford >>> overall athletics at Duke.</p>
<p>This might have something to do with why Stanford is more prestigious than Duke. ;)</p>
<p>Mods, this thread is really exhausted. (Iz it can be lock tiem nao plz?)</p>
<p>Tier 1: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, Caltech
Tier 2: Duke, Columbia, Penn, Brown, Dartmouth
Tier 3: Cornell, Johns Hopkins, WUSTL, UChicago, NU, Berkeley, Rice</p>
<p>(for undergrad)</p>
<p>Tier 1: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, Caltech
Tier 2: Duke, Columbia, Penn, Brown, Dartmouth
Tier 3: Cornell, Johns Hopkins, WUSTL, UChicago, NU, Berkeley, Rice</p>
<p>Totally agree with this.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Tier 1: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, Caltech, and Berkeley (assuming we're including Ph.D. programs)
Tier 2: Columbia, Penn, Dartmouth, U Chicago, Brown, Cornell
Tier 3: Duke, Johns Hopkins, WUSTL
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, assuming we're including PhD programs, Chicago and Columbia should be Tier 1, Yale should be Tier 2, and WUSTL shouldn't be Tier 3.</p>
<p>We are talking about prestige ..</p>
<p>Tier 1A:Harvard
Tier 1B:Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford
Tier 2:Brown, Penn, Dartmouth, Caltech, Columbia
Tier 3:Johns Hopkins, Duke, Cornell, U Chicago, Berkeley, Rice,WUSTL</p>
<p>This is for prestige in the states.. if it was international Berkeley would be in Tier 1B and Dartmouth, UPenn would move down.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Wrong. Yale has more higher ranked programs than Columbia and Chicago, by U.S. News (including professional schools, social sciences, humanities, science, engineering, and fine arts).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Wrong. Yale has more higher ranked programs than Columbia and Chicago, by U.S. News (including professional schools, social sciences, humanities, science, engineering, and fine arts).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, considering U.S. News Graduate Rankings are hardly respected in the academic community, this doesn't matter much. Consult NRC Rankings or Shanghai-Jaiotong rankings please. It's a commonly-known fact that Yale has a relatively weak graduate program.</p>
<p>And also, if we're still considering PhD programs, you need to bring in a few public schools such as Michigan.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Well, considering U.S. News Graduate Rankings are hardly respected in the academic community, this doesn't matter much. Consult NRC Rankings or Shanghai-Jaiotong rankings please. It's a commonly-known fact that Yale has a relatively weak graduate program.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Um well, NRC is ridiculously old, but if you insist.</p>
<p>According to NRC Rankings by Five Main Areas, Yale beats Columbia in Biological Sciences, Physical Sciences and Math, and Social Behavioral (Yale wins 3-2). </p>
<p>Yale ties Chicago 2-2 (since neither is listed for engineering). </p>
<p>So NRC does not prove what you're saying. Furthermore, more people on CC tend to go by U.S. News than any other rankings system out there (not that I agree with this).</p>
<p>But since we're considering PhD's + professional schools, Yale comes out even farther ahead. Yale has the best Law School, a strong Medical School, and a decent Business School (although this is a relatively new school and has not yet established itself). Yale Fine Arts trumps just about everyone.</p>
<p>The Shanghai-Jaiotong rankings do show Columbia and Chicago ever-so slightly ahead (rankings of 7, 9, and 11); no significant difference there. In another ranking system, THES, Yale comes in #2, ahead of both schools. You can criticize THES as much as you want, there's still not enough evidence to show Columbia + Chicago > Yale for graduate schools. If anything, evidence points the other way around (if you use NRC, U.S. News, and THES). </p>
<p>Yale's graduate program (PhD + Professional Schools) "weakness" tends to be overstated. It certainly is not weaker than Chicago and Columbia, and if anything, it's better.</p>
<p>I'd say Yale is on par with Chicago and Columbia for grad.</p>
<p>By the way, I doubt the new NRC rankings will be drastically different from the current ones.</p>
<p>kyledavid80 -- aren't the new NRC rankings due out any week now?</p>
<p>That's what I'd read, though I think it might be in September.</p>
<p>This discussion is really subjective and confusing because I am not sure what perspective different posters are using to look at things. Prestige as seen by laymen(average Americans)? Prestige as seen by academic circles? Prestige as seen by employers? Prestige as seen by middle and upper-class Americans? Prestige as seen by graduate school adcoms? Prestige as seen by region? Prestige as seen internationally? Prestige of the undergraduate program? Prestige of graduate programs? Prestige of an institution as a whole?</p>
<p>Here's my take based on my work and travel experiences in the Midwest/South/internationally regarding the reputation of undergraduate programs in the United States by employers and middle/upper-class folks:
TIER 1: Harvard, Yale and Princeton
TIER 2: MIT, Stanford, Chicago, Duke, Columbia, Penn, Dartmouth, Brown and Notre Dame
TIER 3: JHU, Caltech, Cornell, Northwestern, WashU, Michigan, Berkeley, UVA, Vanderbilt and Rice</p>
<p>Oh one more thing, the Shanghai-Jaiotong is essentially a science/engineering research ranking, and not much more. It certainly is not a comprehensive view of any school (it ignores Yales strongest area: Arts and Humanities, yet Yale still comes in #11 in the world in this narrower ranking). I definitely don't think that raw numbers of citations and the like are great criteria, especially when this does not account for size of institution (in terms of # faculty, alumni, etc.).</p>
<p>THES, which is largely based on the international reputation of a school's program, is more comprehensive, and IMHO, a much better representation of international "prestige" (save Stanford's rather bizarre standing).</p>
<p>I don't think rankings really matter in this case.
Yale is one of the most respected universities in America and in the world regardless of the strength of its graduate programs. </p>
<p>I determine the prestige of a university by how much of a household name it has become. I would be hardpressed to find people who haven't heard of Yale but at the same time I meet people all the time who when I tell them I'm really interested in Stanford, have never heard of it. Now Stanford is an incredible institution with certain programs that rank higher than Yale, whether they be undergrad or graduate programs, but it is by no means more prestigous. The same can be said of numerous different institutions.</p>
<p>"kyledavid80 -- aren't the new NRC rankings due out any week now?"</p>
<p>End of September.</p>
<p>In every part of the world besides the Asian continent, Harvard and Yale trump every other school in the US besides maybe Princeton by a wide margin with regard to prestige.</p>
<p>^^ I think many posters on this board who have significant experience in Asia (either born and raised there or spent much time there) would disagree with that. Ask UCLAri.</p>
<p>^^ wait, he's saying in every part of the world EXCEPT Asia, Harvard and Yale have the most prestige.</p>
<p>That's about half of the world you just left out.</p>