<p>^^ true. I misread, but my statement still stands--I don't think that's even true for non-Asian areas, and I daresay many international students on CC would agree.</p>
<p>there's really no way to determine this.</p>
<p>I just agree with #1 = Harvard</p>
<h1>2 = YPSM to varying degrees.</h1>
<p>Now can we all agree and just move on from this thread?</p>
<p>I don't understand how you can just exclude half of the world?</p>
<p>Clearly, prestige in Antarctica is more important.</p>
<p>In terms of faculty reputation, Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley, and MIT kill Yale. Caltch and Princeton are also better in the science and engineering fields. Yale is as good as Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, and Michigan.</p>
<p>^^ If you're talking about <em>graduate</em> science/engineering, then I agree. </p>
<p>However, if THES -- which is heavily PA based -- is a joke, then so is U.S. News graduate departmental rankings. Just because your precious Stanford may have been jipped a little, doesn't mean the whole thing is worthless (certainly not more worthless than the narrow JS science/engineering rankings).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>He's providing his personal experiences traveling and living internationally; his travels happen to leave out half the world. It's not that hard to understand...</p>
<p>Moderator please? This thread really has been exhausted.</p>
<p>The THES rankings are a bit of a joke. </p>
<p>The methodology used by THES to rank Universities is HEAVILY influenced by faculty perception. This begs the question; "what faculty are being polled to rank the Universities?" The unfortunate answer is that the vast majority of faculty polled are from Europe, Australia, Singapore and the UK (countries where the TIMES periodical is most popular). </p>
<p>Accordingly, the THES rankings tend to overstate the status of Universities within those countries and downplay the strength of Universities outside them. If you don't believe me, have a look at how many of the 50-ish Universities located in Australia are ranked in the top 200 compared to the over 3,600 US Universities that are represented. The fractions are so ridiculous it's a wonder why anybody would seriously consult the THES rankings (at least for cross-border University comparisons).</p>
<p>Anyway, here's my thoughts:</p>
<p>TIER 1: Harvard, Yale and Princeton (the same as most)
TIER 2: MIT, Stanford, Chicago, NYU, Columbia, Penn, Berkley and Carnegie Mellon
TIER 3: Caltech, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Case Western Reserve (recently down, but appears to be making a comeback) and Dartmouth</p>
<p>^^ That's fine, but they still provide a rather broad, international perception of U.S. Schools. If you take out all the non-U.S. schools from the ranking, you have a decent idea of prestige and reputation of U.S. universities among a large proportion of the world.</p>
<p>In this thread, we weren't using THES rankings for cross-border comparisons. They are useful for the comparisons of international reputation of U.S. universities, more so than the JS rankings.</p>
<p>In comparison, one could calculate JS rankings, which focus on quantity more than quality, sitting at home on a computer. It's numbers based. It's also unbelievably biased towards Asian academic values, i.e. science/engineering.</p>
<p>^^ I agree</p>
<p>Question, How is Yale graduate Engineering/Sciences on par with any of those universties (Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, and Michigan.)????</p>
<p>I am highly doubtful of that.</p>
<p>^^ In science, Yale is undeniably on par with those schools. (Will you people understand the fact that Yale is actually strong in science? Yale outranks Princeton in Biology and Chemistry, has a top 10 math program, etc.)</p>
<p>Engineering is where Yale (as well as Chicago and Harvard) doesn't measure up.</p>
<p>According to THES peer review, the following 10 schools are tied as #1.
1= University of OXFORD United Kingdom 100
1= MASSACHUSETTS Institute of Technology (M... United States 100
1= STANFORD University United States 100
1= University of TORONTO Canada 100
1= University of CAMBRIDGE United Kingdom 100
1= University of California, BERKELEY United States 100
1= HARVARD University United States 100
1= PRINCETON University United States 100
1= YALE University United States 100 </p>
<p>Then we have THES ranking result by categories.</p>
<p>In humanities, Berkeley is #2, Stanford is #11, while Yale is #5, Duke is #20.</p>
<p>In life science, Berkeley is #5, Stanford is #6, while Yale is #8, and Duke is #19.</p>
<p>In technology, Berkeley is #2, Stanford is #3, while Yale is #46, and Duke is not in top 50</p>
<p>In science, Berkeley is #1, Stanford is #7, while Yale is #10, and Duke is not in top 50.</p>
<p>In social science, Berkeley is #2, Stanford is #5, while Yale is #4, and Duke is #25.</p>
<p>Not that I agree on these rankings. But let's accept these rankings first. To summarize, Berkeley beats Yale in all 5 categories. Stanford beats Duke in all 5 categories. And Stanford beats Yale in 3 of the 5 categories. </p>
<p>What is the overall THES ranking? It is Yale #2, Duke #13, Stanford #19, Berkeley #22. </p>
<p>Isn't THES ranking ridiculous?</p>
<p>Great. I doubt that. Now are you going to back up your assertions or not. I have no clue whether your right or not. To claim its undeniable is one thing, but to lack any sort of charts, graphs, rankings, or other relevant evidence is another. </p>
<p>Can you show me how Yale graduate engineering/sciences is undeniably on par with those schools.</p>
<p>I'm very skeptical on the engineering part.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Just because your precious Stanford may have been jipped a little, doesn't mean the whole thing is worthless (certainly not more worthless than the narrow JS science/engineering rankings).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Er, it's more because the THES rankings change with the wind. One day Stanford's in the top 5 or so, and the next it's barely in the top 20? No credibility there.</p>
<p>Datalook, did you look at the methodology? It's 40% Peer Review, not 100%...</p>
<p>The other 60% is comprised of criteria like recruiter review, international students + faculty, student:faculty ratio, research adjusted to size of institution, etc.</p>
<p>Phead, read my post again. I was not claiming that Yale is on par for engineering, because it isn't. Neither is Harvard or Chicago. Yale IS on par for sciences.</p>
<p>The schools I'm mainly comparing <em>for sciences</em> are Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, and Michigan.</p>
<p>In biological sciences, Yale is ranked #7 according to U.S. News, ahead of Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Princeton, and Michigan. It is #6 according to NRC, ahead of Columbia, Chicago, Cornell, Princeton, and Michigan.</p>
<p>In chemistry, according to U.S. News, Yale is #15, ahead of Princeton and Michigan. </p>
<p>In math, according to U.S. News, Yale is #7, ahead of Columbia, Cornell, and Michigan.</p>
<p>In computer science, Yale is #20, whereas schools like Columbia and Harvard are #16.</p>
<p>In physics, Yale is #11, tied with Columbia and ahead of Michigan. In NRC for Phys Science and Math, Yale is ahead of both Columbia and Michigan.</p>
<p>So yes, by saying that Yale is on par with Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, and Michigan <em>in the sciences</em> is not a ridiculous statement. Datalook, who is one of the most anti-Yale posters on CC, even made this claim.</p>
<p>You said...
</p>
<p>My reply:
<p> [quote=RD31] *^^ If you're talking about <em>graduate</em> science/engineering, then I agree. *
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Also, Reread what I had to say:</p>
<p>
<p>I'm very skeptical on the *engineering* part.
</p>
<p>Okay I see the confusion. I was actually only referring to the first half of Datalook's post, not the part where he said "Yale is as good as Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, and Michigan."</p>
<p>If you look back at my post #974, I clearly stated that Yale, Chicago (absence of program?), and Harvard are not on par for engineering. Sorry for the confusion. But once and for all, Yale is solid in the sciences, and will continue to improve. Engineering is undergoing massive overhaul with huge amounts of funding.</p>
<p>Ah, okay, confusion on my part as well. :-) Its okay, fine, just a little confusion doesn't hurt anyone.</p>