<p>I only know the LA area. In recent years, Harvard-Westlake has sent four kids to Deep Springs. Oakwood has sent one. It's worth noting, since Deep Springs kids always turn down elite schools to attend.</p>
<p>"following up on interesteddad's point about the prep school draw perhaps inpart due to athletic recruiting, a quick look at the Williams hockey roster certainly supports that theory. 18 out of the 23 on the roster are from eastern boarding schools like Deerfield & Nobles.</p>
<p>Yup. And more likely to be white, and probably (based on financial aid data by race, as opposed to athletic status) less likely to be on financial aid.</p>
<p>Blair N.J. 2001-2005</p>
<p>1)NYU (19)
2)Lehigh (18)
3)George Washington (15)
4)Boston U. (13)
5)Cornell (11)
6)Penn (11)
7)Brown (9)
8)Colgate (9)
9)Duke (8)
10)Columbia(8)
11)Naval Academy(8)</p>
<p>
[quote]
You probably see the same profile differences if you look at some of the athletic rosters even at Swarthmore. Check out the boys lacrosse roster. Seems to be a few prep schools represented there as well..........
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No question about it. In fact, that was my original point...that all Ivies and top LACs rely heavily on private prep schools for athletic recruiting.</p>
<p>Because of this, the relative emphasis placed on athletic recruiting in the admissions process will have a direct impact on the percentage of private prep students accepted to each college. An ultra-selective school with 39% varsity sports participation among its male students will like have more private prep recruited athletes than a school with 22% male varsity athletes. When we are talking about very small class sizes in the 300 to 500 range, recruiting for two sports alone (football and ice hockey) has signficant impact on the makeup of each entering class. </p>
<p>Of the 539 incoming freshmen at Williams this month, 151 (29%) had the "athletic tag", meaning that they were identified through contact with the Athletic Department as being likely 4-year varsity athletes (i.e. "recruited"). That is a group of 151 who will be disproportionately (to some degree) drawn from private prep ranks.</p>
<p>This is one reason you see Williams having relatively higher representation on the matriculation lists from private preps. The other reason, obviously, is that it is perceived as a "preppier" environment, a perception supported statistically by a lower percentage of financial aid students and non-white students than either Swarthmore or Amherst. Conversely, when you look at a public magnet schools like Thomas Jefferson HS (which presumably isn't a football or ice hockey powerhouse), you see Swarthmore over-represented among the LACs. </p>
<p>BTW, I would conjecture that Asian-American enrollment may be a factor, too.</p>
<p>It's hard to compare apples to apples on some of these stats, but this month's incoming freshman class at Swarthmore breaks down as follows:</p>
<p>62% (241 students) from US public schools
25% (97 students) from US private prep schools
5% (20 students) from US parochial schools
8% (31 students) from overseas schools</p>
<p>interesteddad,</p>
<p>Those numbers support my conjecture that catholic high school students trend toward ND, BC, Georgetown and HC instead of toward HYPSM and SWAP. However, I would also like to see the view of this from the school's side of the equation, what is the acceptance rate at HYPSM and SWAP for catholic high school students.</p>
<p>One thing I have noticed in general is that catholic colleges do not have ED programs (HC is the notable exception). Many of Ivys and highly rated LACs have ED programs. Not sure how this would play into the statistics that Papa Chicken is generating.</p>
<p>I think it's self-evident that tradtional white Catholic students attending Catholic high schools would trend heavily towards Catholic colleges: Notre Dame, BC, Georgetown, Villanova, etc.</p>
<p>However, I think there's another factor here. No statistics to back this up, but glancing through the Swarthmore freshman facebook last year, I was struck by the number of non-white kids from parochial schools. I suspect that, particularly in the urban Northeast areas, parochial schools attract middle-class education-minded families looking for an affordable alternative to a dreadful public school district. This obviously comes even more into play as Latino students become an increasing percentage at elite colleges.</p>
<p>"The corresponding data I would like to see for colleges is the percentage of students from private prep versus public schools. It would be a useful "metric" to add to the list, but I've not found any consistent reporting of those stats."</p>
<p>The Princeton Review lists this statistic under the school profiles. I've listed 7 of the 8 Ivy League schools as well as Stanford, Duke and MIT with their percentages of kids of from Public Schools:</p>
<p>Percentage of Students from Public Schools</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard - 65% </li>
<li>Yale - 53%</li>
<li>Princeton - 55%</li>
<li>Brown - 60%</li>
<li>Columbia - 49%</li>
<li>Dartmouth - 63%</li>
<li>UPenn - 53%</li>
<li>Cornell - N/A</li>
<li>Stanford - 72%</li>
<li>MIT - 71%</li>
<li>Duke - 59%</li>
</ol>
<p>Private school students make up 11.5% of the U.S. student population, so it's easy to see the value of a private school education.</p>
<p>interested dad--catholics attending catholic universities is too gross a generalization. here's a breakdown on a small catholic boy's school which I am familiar with--60 kids in last year's class.</p>
<p>5 Northwestern matriculants
4 Washington University
3 Vanderbilt
1 Columbia
1 Harvard
1 Princeton
1 Notre Dame
1 BC
Other top 50 schools (LAC and U) matriculating 1: 9
Other Catholic Universities matriculating 1: Three Schools</p>
<p>Georgetown Prep numbers are off in the list...senior class size is about 120...less for graduation years before 2005. Before 2005, average senior class size was around 110.</p>
<p>Avg SAT - 1350</p>
<p>Top 10 schools for Prep 2002-2004
Georgetown University 17
Boston College 15
Villanova University 9
Duke University 8
University of Virginia 8
University of Pennsylvania 6
Princeton University 5
Davidson College 4
University of Notre Dame 4
Yale University 4</p>
<p>You guys are obviously posting some very hoity-toit Catholic preps based on the admissions data. I was thinking more along the lines of the large Catholic high schools that are very prevalent in the northeast. I would be surprised if these schools are getting 20 kids into top 25 colleges.</p>
<p>Here's an example of college admissions from Bishop Fenwick High School in Peabody, MA. It appears to be the largest coed parochial high school in the Boston area:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Private school students make up 11.5% of the U.S. student population, so it's easy to see the value of a private school education.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>But, not for the reason you may think. The advantage is to be rich. If you placed the same students into wealthy public high schools, they would get into mostly the same colleges.</p>
<p>I know of one family with their extended family names on several buildings at Harvard and literally wallpapering the buildings at another top-25 university. They send their kids to public schools as a matter of choice. They all go to Harvard.</p>
<p>I think that there are benefits to well-known prep schools for college admissions. But, for a given student, I'd rather package a public school application. Some colleges set a very high bar for wealthy prep school kids, knowing that to some degree SATs and ECs can be bought and paid for.</p>
<p>interested dad--your right. I was thinking pretty upper catholic. the general big catholic schools are usually lucky if they get a few into ND, BC, Jesuit schools. Looking at their scattergrams it's a pretty dismal chance to get into a tier 1 or 2 school.</p>
<p>Think there are 28 Jesuit high schools in the country. These schools usually push Gtown, Holy Cross and Boston College. Notre Dame while Catholic is not Jesuit. Also schools like Duke and Dartmouth draw well at Jesuit high schools.</p>
<p>intresteddad,</p>
<p>I understand your point about Bishop Fenwick, there are no Ivy league schools listed on its matriculation list. However, there is BC, ND, HC and Georgetown along with a significant number of other catholic colleges, i.e. Providence College, St. Anselms, etc.</p>
<p>I believe some of the colleges have 3 classifications, public, private and parochial for admissions. I guess my question is, did the top of the class only apply to ND, BC, Georgetown and HC? Or did they apply to the Ivys and SWAP and not get in. Alternatively, what is the acceptance rate a the Ivys and SWAP for students from catholic high schools.</p>
<p>Papa has a lot of time on his hands</p>
<p>
[quote]
I guess my question is, did the top of the class only apply to ND, BC, Georgetown and HC? Or did they apply to the Ivys and SWAP and not get in.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>By state law, every graduating senior in Massachusetts is required to apply to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, and UWash-Stl.</p>
<p>Just kidding, it only seems that way. I honestly don't know anything about Bishop Fenwick. They play my daughter's public school in football and is about the same size (900 students 9-12). Fenwick serves a pretty large area covering everything from blue collar (Revere) to very affluent (Hamilton, Marblehead). The college acceptance list overall looks similar to my daughter's school, maybe not quite as high on the top end. </p>
<p>My daughter's school would only send a valedictorian to HYPM occasionally. Last year's top students all got into their first choice schools -- Williams, Swarthmore, Ga Tech, Bowdoin, Hamilton, Colgate, etc. I don't believe anyone in last year's class applied to an Ivy League school other than Cornell. One applied to MIT (not the valedictorian), but with no expectation of getting in. Notre Dame is the holy grail for many students in Eastern Mass. but would require a very high class rank from my daughter's school -- top 5% I would think. </p>
<p>It's just a bad state to be applying from given that we have the highest percentage of students taking the SAT (86% or something like that) and one of the highest average scores of any state. Plus, with all the prep schools and the extremely wealthy uber-publics along the 128 corridor, average to good schools like my daughters' and Bishop Fenwick are not on the elite college adcom recruiting visit map at all. The closest any elite college adcom has ever gotten to my daughter's school is the interstate highway from Logan Airport up to Exeter. </p>
<p>I can't speak for all Eastern Mass. students, but I think that, because so many top schools are local, they aren't put on quite the same romanticised pedestal as they might be for someone who hasn't spent time at Harvard or had science fair competitions at MIT. So, even a student who could get in might not be that excited about going to college in Cambridge just a hop, skip, and a jump from home -- unless the school is actually the right fit when considered on the same basis as any other school. Not that they aren't very well-respected, but between a realistic view of admissions odds and the knowledge that these schools have warts just like any school, smart kids don't waste their time on a wild goose chase. The top three students in my daughter's class focused their efforts on schools they could get into and, I believe, the only rejection letter any of the three got was the aforementioned MIT whim. Of the three, only my daughter applied anywhere binding ED and called it a day. The other two applied to their full lists.</p>
<p>Here is information from a Catholic private high school in the CA Bay Area:</p>
<p>With a senior class of around 115:</p>
<p>Harvard 1
Yale 2
Princeton 4
Stanford 4
Dartmouth 1
Cornell 1
Cal 5-10
UCLA 5-10
Brown 1
Duke 1
NYU 2
Host of other schools, including many UCs and Catholic Unis.</p>
<p>Stats:
AP Exam Results
In May, 2004 487 Advanced Placement exams were administered to 253 students. 21% of the scores were 5; 49% were 4 or 5; and 77% were 3, 4, or 5.</p>
<p>SAT I and SAT II Profile
The middle 50% ranges of SAT scores for the Class of 2004 were: Verbal 580-690, Math 570-700</p>
<p>The mean scores for the five most frequently taken SAT II Subject Tests for the Class of 2004 were as follows: </p>
<p>Writing: 654
Math 1C: 600
Math 2C: 668
Literature: 615
American History: 617 </p>
<p>National Merit Scholarship Program
Twenty-two students in the Class of 2005 have been recognized by the National Merit Scholarship Program:</p>
<p>Semi-Finalists 12
Commended Scholars 10 </p>
<p>What this indicates is that the school has a very wide range of students. They reserve 60% of the spots for Catholic kids and 40% is open competitive admissions. It is not a traditional feeder school but recently the word is that universities appreciate the tradition of educating the whole kid and not focusing so much on cramming in APs etc.</p>
<p>Interestingly the top kids were by no means the wealthiest kids. But the Bay Area is just full of highly intelligent achievement oriented people who value education. My guess is that the top 10% of kids at all these private and public high schools here have admission outcomes that are similar. So while we tend to use the term "wealth" on this board as a proxy for "privilege" the fact is that family privilege that leads to educational advantage can be comprised of more than $$$.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What this indicates is that the school has a very wide range of students.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not really. Those median SAT scores are off the charts high at both ends of the scale.</p>
<p>The 1150 25th percentile is nearly 300 points higher than the California state-wide 25th percentile of 860.</p>
<p>It's 130 points above the state-wide 50th percentile of 1020.</p>
<p>And nearly equal to the California state-wide 75th percentile score of 1180.</p>
<p>The 1390 75th percentile score would be in the top 8% of all California SAT takers. </p>
<p>With a median SAT in the 1270 range, that has got to be one of the highest SAT schools in the state (and in the country). For example, that is higher than both Gunn in Palo Alto and Troy High, the science magnet IB school that is #21 on Newsweek's national list. These two are always near the top of California's SAT ranking.</p>
<p>Well shows you what I know:). I guess the school just downplays its academic standing because it is so committed to social and religious values...No wonder it had such good admissions outcomes. I am just so ignorant living in this odd Bay Area world.</p>
<p>fishingmn.......to the contrary, my "CC time" is pure hobby for me, like many others here, & I have a very full life otherwise...plus I just don't sleep much.</p>
<p>ps........more to come soon.....I'm slicing & dicing feeder school stats (which schools feed the most to certain colleges or groups of colleges in any given year) from the matriculation data gleened thus far now & will report soon.</p>