<p>hey may i ask what ur stats were cavalier302 as i am also doing pton early</p>
<p>my stats: class valedictorian, 1550 sat, good sat2s, good ECs, great recs, great essays. Seriously, ivybound, no matter what your stats are, don't get your hopes up. I wouldn't say that it's a total crapshoot, but it's definitely tough, especially if you don't fall into at least one of the three or four categories they really seem to prefer...
Regardless of if you get into Princeton, you'll end up at a top school, no question. I'll be an Echols Scholar at UVA this year, and I'll go to my grave believing that a top student from a school like UVA will have the same opportunities as he would have had at a "more prestigious" school. If you're the "real deal," you'll succeed. If you're very gifted academically, you won't necessarily need an ultra-elite undergrad school on your CV; however, pursuing a top school is a worthwhile pursuit and it never hurts to go to one. ;)</p>
<p>nerdatheart, if I were you, I'd look long and hard at which safety schools you think are right for you, and then find out which ones have good reputations for providing excellent financial aid, and include them in your application process. (Private schools are outragesously expensive, but many also provide outrageous financial aid.) </p>
<p>The reason for applying to match and safety schools is to have choices. With so much info available You don't need to visit before you apply. Once you know where you are accepted, you and your parents can make the decision based on real facts. In the end they might be very happy with one of your other choices. </p>
<p>If you're having a hard time helping them to understand the reasons for applying to match and safety schools, maybe a guidance couselor could help.</p>
<p>A number of posters have recommended the compromise and transfer alternative. IMHO, this is fraught with many problems.</p>
<p>The fact is, frosh year is by far the most important year for the student. It is the time when close friendships are made, habits/routines are established, majors are decided, etc. There is much at stake during that year.</p>
<p>Plus it is assumed that the student will have the transcript to transfer anywhere she would desire. Not so fast. It is a well known fact in academe that there is far less grade inflation at many publics than at private colleges for a wide variety of reasons. A friend's son had strait A's frosh year at JHU and was stunned when he got a B in physics 1 that summer at our flagship university. </p>
<p>I believe that students should apply to only those college where they feel they could invest 4 years of their life. If family finances require some compromises, so be it. But like, if not love, thy safety.</p>
<p>hmm ... I'm a parent thats bottom line probably sounds something like the orginal post ... although I look at it slightly different.</p>
<p>For my kids UMass-Amherst is the State U and is an OK school (and is not all that cheap as state schools go). We are telling our kids we will pay the full fare for them to go to any school that is a lot "better". The trick is what is better?
* A lot stronger students and academics - you bet
* A unique program offering not offered at any UMass - sounds good
* My boyfriend is going to OK Private U and I want to also - we'll pay UMass money and you can pick up the rest
* I want to ski so I want to go to UVM - we'll pay UMass money and you can pick up the rest
* Private U a bit better than UMass - now it gets more interesting; I'm guessing we'll find some way to make it work. </p>
<p>College costs a ton and we're willing to spend it but our kids need to convince us of the value to spend the incremental bucks over UMass.</p>
<p>I have for years taken the postion posed by the OP. Recently, I changed my mind somewhat. If the state school isn't that good or, in our case, isn't strong in the programs that my daughter wants, I have little choice but to look elsewhere, assuming that the higher cost of tuition isn't a big issue. Moreover, there are other factors such as safety at the school, fit for the student, special needs, if any, etc. Thus, I am realizing that there are a lot of exceptions to the general rule posed by the OP.</p>
<p>Also, if we were in a state that had fabulous state schools such as UVA, I certainly might consider that over the HYPMS or IVYS. However, there are only a few state schools that I would give this kind of strong consideration to over the top schools in the US.</p>
<p>I guess, as with 3togo, I have to be convinced of the value of the private school over our in state offerings.</p>
<p>in addition, the cost of colleges does not follow a continum ... without merit aid entering the picture it's pretty much ... cheapest = UMass expense, pretty expensive = other state's schools, or very expensive = privates (that cost relatively similar amount). The high cost of almost all the privates is what drives our family to a place that sounds a lot like "top school or state U".</p>
<p>taxguy, I thought the Univ of Maryland was a good school that was improving dramatically. Also, you have access to Washington DC. What's the downside?</p>
<p>The OP is raising a point that has widespread relevance outside New Jesrey, Rutgers is a very specific instance; it is a pretty decent state u but not an exciting one, and a student who can aspire to Tufts as a "lowest" private is probably not going to feel rewarded for hard work if he or she ends up at Rutgers. Rutgers has neither the academic reputation of Michigan or Wisconsin (let alone Berkeley and UVa), nor the social and/or athletic gloss of some Big Ten and southern state universities. It's a flagship state university but not one that most people in the state wave proudly. It's a shame, too, because Rutgers has some strong programs and first-rate professors, just not a lot of glamor. </p>
<p>For the OP's purposes, I'd join the chorus of posters suggesting an investigation of what kind of private schools reeally are matches and safeties and see if with merit and/or need-based aid some more appealing alternatives can become available financially (and also can demonstrate superior academics and other advantages compared to Rutgers). It's also important to consider whether the OP wants a really large school--the mention of Tufts suggests medium size, not giant. And Rutgers University in New Brunswick/Piscataway is nothing if not giant, despite its present organization, which includes separate colleges (Douglass for women, Livingston, Cook, as well as Rutgers College). (And of course the non-flagship Newark and Camden campuses).</p>
<p>My daughter is interested in graphic design or new media design. UMD doesn't really have a good program in graphic design and especialy in new media design. This is just one program that Maryland isn't known for. Maybe if she were interested in either business, education, engineering or hard sciences, we would have to reevaluate Maryland. For most other majors, Maryland is mediocre.</p>
<p>Also, I taught at Maryland. It is a BIG, impersonal state school, which woudn't be that good for my daughter. There is also more crime there than they let on. Also,as a minor factor, Maryland, as with all state schools here, has a bizarre bunch of liberal arts requirements that I also don't like. I don't mind liberal arts, in fact I prefer a strong program, but Maryland has 10 categories of liberal arts requirements.</p>
<p>Gotta agree with Cavalier about the state of state universities. If you've got a good one in your homestate, definitely go there. If not, forget it. New Jersey and New York shamelessly have lousy state university systems, especially the SUNYs. And I'm sorry Donemom, Binghamton is no "public Ivy" and never will be; as someone wrote about it on studentsreview, it's "a toilet."</p>
<p>Know of a student given very similar options to the OP. Student was deferred or WLed by three Top Tier schools but accepted at several good out-of-state publics, including Penn State where he really wanted to go and would've thrived there. Parents would not cover the OSS fees which alone accounted for more than half the total tuition costs. Being a NY resident, student opted for Binghamton and is making immediate plans to succeed there academicaly so that he can transfer out ASAP. He'll be applying to two of his three earlier Top Tier schools as well as adding a couple more to his list.</p>
<p>I suggest that the OP do the same thing about Rutgers: achieve academically there as best as you can and then transfer out at the earliest possibility -- if this is indeed what happens and you're denied or WLed by your top choices. I hope you won't have such a dilemma, that you'll get into your Top Colleges (Tufts included).</p>
<p>Dstark, I also left out Maryland's School of Communication, which is reputed to be quite good too.
Also, Collegeparent notes,"New York shamelessly have lousy state university systems, especially the SUNYs. And I'm sorry Donemom, Binghamton is no "public Ivy" "</p>
<p>Response: I can't speak for Binghamton today, but when I went to college during the time of the dinosaurs, Binghamton was considered by many to be a very strong school in humanities. As for other state unversities, Stonybrook has risen in the ratings considerably over the years and was always considered strong in sciences. SUNY Purchase, has a very strong reputation in the arts especially visual and performing arts. Many university faculty at other art programs attended SUNY Purchase.</p>
<p>These schools might not be rated at the levels of Berkeley or UVA or even UCLA, but I am not sure that any one would call them "lousy state universities."</p>
<p>taxguy, on other threads I've written about my frustration with the SUNY system because of the bureaucracy in Albany and the lack of any kind of concern by NY state educators and politicians not to have the finest state educational system east of the Mississippi. A state like New York which is among the two or three most wealthy in the US should have a state public university system that they can be proud of. Instead, by comparison with states with less wealth and influence, New York SUNYs are indeed "lousy". For New York to boast that the best state university campus they have is Binghamton is really an outrage. There are at least 35 public university campuses in at least 20 other states which are far better than Binghamton; the problem is not with the students at Binghamton but with the politicians in Albany and the educators within the SUNY system who gladly settle for a third-rate educational opportunity in a first-rate state.</p>
<p>Many of this country's public universities, such as Rutgers, can't hold a candle to the schools ranked in the USNews top 30-40. There's no denying that, for the typical CC kid, life at a school like Rutgers would be hell. At the Georgetown admitted students weekend, I talked to two girls from NJ who were very willingly turning down full rides at Rutgers to pay between $30k and $40k (after financial aid) at Georgetown, Penn, or Johns Hopkins. They described their tours at Rutgers, where they found that to get ANYWHERE on campus, they have to take a bus. They also found that some of their smallest classes would number in the hundreds, and that few of their classmates would be as bright, talented, or motivated as they were. </p>
<pre><code> Now, I don't think anyone on this board is out to "bash" schools like Rutgers; most are fine schools that can get motivated students to their ultimate aspirations. HOWEVER, they really can't compare to top privates and publics (uva, UM, UIUC, UCB, UNC, ETC.) If I were you, nerdatheart, I would strongly consider "shelling out the big bucks" for a more expensive school somewhere else. Or, if your parents are unwilling to do this, look for good schools that will give you good merit money for typical CC stats. I'll get you started: Case Western Reserve and the University of Miami.
</code></pre>
<p>3togo:</p>
<p>Yess! The "incremental bucks" approach sounds really good. Seems like it's my approach, too. </p>
<p>cavalier302:</p>
<p>University of Miami? Why do you think it's better than Rutgers? Looks just like Rutgers's twin... classes a bit smaller, graduation rate a bit lower... They even share the same position in USNews ratings!</p>
<p>Meh. Rutgers is in New Jersey. The University of Miami is in Miami. Take your pick!</p>
<p>Comparing UMiami to Rutgers is like comparing a weekend at a resort to a weekend in prison...which would you pick?</p>
<p>New Jersey jokes are way past their sell date. New Jersey is (to some people's surprise and disbelief) a great state;much of it is beautiful and very livable. In fact I think a lot of people would choose a weekend in soemp arts of New Jersey over a weekend in Miami; the point is that Rutgers may not be as good a state university as the OP and other NJ students deserve.</p>
<p>Collegeparent, I do agree that there are a number of other state universities better that that found in NY. I also agree that it is not only a shame but completely unbelieveable that a rich state as NY would not have some flagship universities ranked in the top 3 or so in the US. NY has always been an educational leader with their Regent's exam and tough curriculum. I wonder why they don't have any really top notch state universities such as Berkeley or Michigan or UVA? Infact, it is hard to believe that Michigan and Virginia have a better flagship universities. Even Ohio outdoes New York. It is indeed a conundrum. Maybe NY just has too many colleges and thus too much spending in order to have one or two top notch institutions. Perhaps if they consolidate a few of them into one of two universities, they would have the funding to compete with California and other states.</p>
<p>However, even with the above said, I am not sure I would call the better schools in NY "lousy." I would say they are "mediocre plus."</p>
<p>In Rutgers' defense, they're finally get it organized. The new three-campus approach with a main undergraduate campus at New Brunswick will go far in sorting out the current mess & confusion. Perhaps even then Rutger's most famous "alum", Mr. Magoo, will be able to "see" its strongpoints and strengths.</p>