Top school and debt or second teir school, debt free?

Paying for College
1

<p>So I got into my dream school, Harvey Mudd college ED.</p>

<p>Since I got in there early, I only applied to a few UCs (the application deadline is before the ED notification comes out)</p>

<p>Anyway, for whatever reason, the UCs hate my school and very few people got into UCs (It's a small brand new private school that doesn't rank, so maybe that had something to do with it)</p>

<p>Anyway, my choices are Harvey Mudd and UC Irvine. And since I got in ED, my only real choice is Harvey Mudd- Except for financial reasons.</p>

<p>I absolutely love Harvey Mudd. It is my dream school.
UCI is where my dad works, and it was my safety school.</p>

<p>My family will contribute 30k a year for Harvey Mudd, which is a lot. However, since their income is high, I do not receive any grants or need scholarships from the school, and I can't apply for unsubsidized loans. </p>

<p>With work during the school year and summer work, that'll add up to about 5k. I'll still be left with around 18k a year. If I got those in loans (somehow), plus say a 8% interest rate, I'll be about 110k in debt by the end of college. Then I planned to go on to grad school (say, 5 years) to earn my PhD in Nuclear Engineering. Assuming I get a fellowship, that won't add to my debt, but interest rate will. I will have about 160k of debt by the time I graduate with a PhD.</p>

<p>Now, at HMC I realize I might not get the best grades since its so hard, and will have to work really hard to try to do well. Because of my possible low grades, I might not get into a top grad school. And living with 160k in debt, Ill be living in an apartment pretty conservatively for a good while, while my state school friends will be debt free, putting down payments for a nice house and car even though I make more money than them, and worked a lot harder (harder school).</p>

<p>Or, I could go to UCI, come out debt free, probably have an easier time getting good grades, and thus may go to a top grad school. </p>

<p>This decision sounds simple. But I am absolutely in love with mudd. I'd be really sad going to UCI- especially when I know I worked harder than some of the kids at my school who got into schools better than UCI.</p>

<p>What do you guys think?
I'd especially like to hear opinions from those who graduated from top schools and are in a lot of debt, and if they would have changed their decision now.</p>

2

<p>$110K is way way way too much. Add the $50K interest accumulated during grad school, and you’ll feel like you’re dragging a ball and chain around until you’re 50 years old. Don’t do it.</p>

<p>Easier said than done, I know. That’s how so very many people get into trouble with debt. It’s so alluring to have what you want now, and worry about the consequences later. You’re just going to have to trust me; you will regret it many times over. Do UCI now; get top grades, and then have a ball in grad school. </p>

<p>Oh, and it’s easier if you stop comparing yourself to other kids. ;)</p>

3

<p>I’m so sorry to hear that Blackroses… :frowning: but I do agree with LasMa and that 110k is too much… well I don’t know, even though Mudd does have the one of the highest starting salaries, it’s really hard to say.</p>

<p>I think it’s wise to talk to your parents and FinAid, but where you go doesn’t really determine your success later in life!</p>

4

<p>*And living with 160k in debt, Ill be living in an apartment pretty conservatively for a good while, while my state school friends will be debt free, putting down payments for a nice house and car even though I make more money than them, and worked a lot harder (harder school).
*</p>

<p>Well, seems like your friends will have made the wiser choice! (The best intelligence is paired with wisdom.)</p>

<p>(and, don’t assume that you’ll work harder than they will… that’s arrogant. You have NO idea how hard they’ll work for their grades, for whatever research projects that they get involved with, whatever internships they do, etc. </p>

<p>And…don’t assume that you’ll earn more than they will. There won’t be that much of a difference in salaries, and if they go to a good grad school (for FREE!!), then they could earn more than YOU.).</p>

5

<p>I thought if you applied ED and are accepted, you are bound to attend unless the school does not meet your financial need? It sounds like the OP has no financial need (by Harvey Mudd’s determination – I’m not saying that the family can pay full freight).</p>

<p>Of course Harvey Mudd cannot force the OP to attend, but will UC Irvine recind the acceptance if the learn that OP has an ED agreement with Harvey Mudd?</p>

6

<p>^^^</p>

<p>I doubt UCI would rescind anything. That is more for the top, elite schools. UCI probably will never know about the ED at Mudd. I know several ED families that kept one UC or Cal State app open “just in case” a parent lost their job before school started. It may be “against the rules,” but in this economy (especially in Calif) a family that loses its job in the spring cannot afford the ED school that was accepted in the winter. </p>

<p>As for financial need…the family decides if it has need in the case of ED, not the school. If the family believes that they can’t afford the cost, then they can decline. The weird thing is, I think the declination was supposed to be awhile ago (unless he did EDII which had a more recent decision.)</p>

7

<p>BTW…</p>

<p>Why are you calling UCI a “second tier” school. UCI is a top tier school. Don’t you know that?</p>

8

<p>^^^^^</p>

<p>Generalizations abound in several posts above, if going to less expensive ,2nd/3rd tier ,schools was so advantageous vis-a-vie salary and education don’t you THINK everyone or most would do so? And to take your point further, why not go to a Community college and really standout and pay for the education with money in your piggy bank, then you’ll have saved tens of thousands of dollars ;)</p>

<p>Seriously, a college degree has become dumbed down, and by that i mean EVERYONE attends college ,whether they eventually get a degree is another question…SO, if you can afford to attend a top tier university, i believe, it is to your advantage…That said, acculumlating 100k worth of debt seems a bit ridiculous…</p>

9

<p>qdogpa…</p>

<p>Because of recent conversations about schools and salaries on this forum…a few days ago I decided to ask my brothers and husband about their hiring practices. My H is in upper management (engineering) for a major aerospace company. My older bro is a VP for DirecTV. My younger bro is a Director at Canon USA for software engineering. Both brothers “moved up” while at Hughes (the origin of DirecTV satellite dish & software) in Computer and software engineering. Both brothers have many patents in their areas. My younger bro’s name is on the patent for that little flat "mouse’ that is on people’s laptops. My older brother has an Emmy award for his work with DirecTV. </p>

<p>I asked them…how much would you start a new grad from MIT, Georgia Tech, Purdue, UCI (cuz I’m an alum. LOL), and CSULB. </p>

<p>They all said that the starting salaries would be within 10K of each other. My brothers said that they would start the MIT grad at $75-80k per year. They would start the UCI and CSULB grads not much less.</p>

<p>My H said that he would start them all within a few thou UNLESS a desired candidate had a better offer elsewhere that he needed to match/exceed. He would probably throw in a better signing bonus. </p>

<p>They all said that the graduate degree school would be more important to them. If they had one applicant that went to CSUF for undergrad, but went to MIT for grad…and they had another student who went to MIT for undergrad, but went to UCI for grad school, they would take the kid who started at CSUF and went to MIT for grad.</p>

10

<p>Because it would be counter productive to further slam the OP about her unsubstantiated assessment about UCI, I would invite her to acquire a thankful attitude for the free ug education she has the opportunity to enjoy because of her father’s generous employer.</p>

11

<p>All things being equal in today’s economy, who gets the only engineering job available, the person with a degree from a top school or the person from Podunk College?..Perhaps
we differ on what a 2nd/3rd tier school is?</p>

<p>I consider HM,for example, to be an elite school…as all Ivies are, and many private schools</p>

<p>Main campus State Universties, for the most part(not all)are top schools…</p>

<p>2nd tier,IMHO, are private schools with selective acceptance rates</p>

<p>3rd tier are your typical state schools where acceptance is easy,tuition relatively inexpensive, and graduation rates are weak…</p>

<p>4th–Community colleges</p>

<p>All levels fill a need, so i have no problems with anyone attending any of them ;)</p>

12

<p>All things being equal in today’s economy, who gets the only engineering job available, the person with a degree from a top school or the person from Podunk College?..Perhaps
we differ on what a 2nd/3rd tier school is?</p>

<p>You’ve created a unique scenario that doesn’t really happen much. My family has rarely ever had a situation where there is only one job open and 2 candidates - one from Podunk U and one from MIT/similar. </p>

<p>However, I can tell you this…My friend’s son who graduated in engineering last May from Columbia still doesn’t have a job…but my family certainly has hired people with degrees from “lesser schools” since that time. </p>

<p>As for “tiers” …I’m not sure where YOU would place UCI (or CSULB or Cal Poly SLO for that matter). Both are hard to get into. I can’t remember if CSULB is impacted for engineering…I believe it once was, if not still)</p>

13

<p>"I would invite her to acquire a thankful attitude for the free ug education she has the opportunity to enjoy because of her father’s generous employer. "</p>

<p>Since when does my Dad teaching at UCI give me a free ride there? If that’s true, he doesn’t even know about it…</p>

<p>If you’re refering to the fact that I said I’ll end up debt free, it’s because both my parents are willing to contribute 10k a year (whether I go to HMC, or UCI). That will leave me with a few thousand to cover that I can pay off through a part time job or/and summer work.</p>

<p>"and, don’t assume that you’ll work harder than they will… that’s arrogant. You have NO idea how hard they’ll work for their grades, for whatever research projects that they get involved with, whatever internships they do, etc. "</p>

<p>I understand your point. However, you can not possibly say that it is not harder to earn top grades at an elite school than at a still good, but not as great UC school. I agree with all your other points though, including that they might even end up doing the same type of research and internships as me.</p>

14

<p>My bad, I thought that was a perk just like Stanford kids.</p>

15

<p>Well, UCI may not be the cruise you’re imagining – because quite a few smart kids are financially pinched just the way you are, and have to choose a UC campus because that’s what they can afford. I’ve also found that engineering classes in particular are very challenging at most schools, and I doubt UCI will be an exception. </p>

<p>Perhaps you can consider transferring to a different UC campus later on? (Though I understand that engineering is a crowded major at most campuses.)</p>

16

<p>UC-Irvine is no slouch school – it is ranked 46th in the latest US News ranking and 20th on Kiplinger’s ‘Top 100 Best Values in Public Colleges ranking’, in both cases ahead of a number of other ‘name’ universities. I know those rankings are not the be-all and end-all, but they certainly are helpful in assessing the relative merits of various schools.</p>

<p>I would advise attending UCI and then focusing on excelling and graduating near the top of your class. As qdogpa noted in another thread, grad school admission officers are smart and will certainly account for your performance relative to how difficult your undergrad school was or wasn’t.</p>

17

<p>*Well, UCI may not be the cruise you’re imagining – because quite a few smart kids are financially pinched just the way you are, and have to choose a UC campus because that’s what they can afford. I’ve also found that engineering classes in particular are very challenging at most schools, and I doubt UCI will be an exception. *</p>

<p>This is very, very true. And…if you play your cards right at UCI, if you get chummy with the right profs, they’ll let you assist them with research AND they will help you get placed with the right internships. </p>

<p>The best thing for YOU is to get placed somewhere that will hire you for summer internships and ultimately hand you a job when you graduate. Then, you can get THAT COMPANY to pay for your graduate school. Or…you can find an assistantship at a top school for grad school. Either way…you’ll be DEBT - FREE.</p>

<p>You mention the possible frustration at having “state school” peers moving on with their lives after graduation while you’re saddled with huge debt. Well, imagine how upset you’ll be if they get their undergrads from state schools, and then get a free education an elite school for their grad school…all while you’re saddled with debt. You think you’ll be bragging about your undergrad from HMU, but they’ll be bragging about their MS or PhDs from Cal Tech, MIT, or wherever…all while debt-free. How will YOU feel then??? You’ll feel like the biggest sucker in Calif.</p>

18

<p>These points are all very valid. Also, I have already done some research in high school with a professor and some grad students at UCI, so I already have that.</p>

<p>I’ve been thinking about this seriously and talking to a friend of mine (my english teacher last year who went to pomona- he’s 25). It made me a lot more calm about the issue, and offered some great perspective and insight.</p>

<p>So, here’s the thing. I figure I’ll go to HMC if I can figure out a way that will not leave me in such extreme debt- maybe working so many years out of college will allow my balance to be low enough that the accumulating interest rate on it won’t be that bad. Maybe, depending on what loan i get, I can defer the payments during grad school. I’ll be talking to my parents and HMC’s finaid department to see how I can make this work. </p>

<p>Also does anyone know how Obama’s new policy would effect me? I would be taking out private unsubsidized loans, and his policy goes into effect in 2014, after I’d have already taken out my loans. Does the 20 years loan forgiveness and only 10% of my income monthly payments plan be what I could do? Because that would be great… I think that’s for Federal loans only though… Can anyone tell me how I will be effected? Also, even though it won’t effect me since my loans will have already been taken out, but I hear the private loan program is going to be changed. Does that mean that kids who don’t have financial need based on FAFSA will no longer qualify for any loans? Just curious.</p>

<p>Thanks guys!</p>

19

<p>Also, my college counselor suggests I take things year by year. She’s saying I should go to Harvey Mudd for a year, see how I like it, and if not transfer to UCI. That’ll leave me 17,000 in debt with a 8% interest rate if I left after a year. Or I could do the opposite and transfer as a junior to mudd. Or transfer as a junior to UCI. </p>

<p>She just thinks I should’nt be thinking so ahead as to after college/ grad school and focus on the now. I’m a little skeptical about this advice, but I see where she’s coming from. I mean there are so many different ways things could work out… I could get the RA position my junior and senior, and that would gut my debt in half for those two years, leaving me around 68k in debt instead of 110k at the end of college, and if I could cut that down by working out of college for a few years before grad school, to say around 45k, and then getting the interest rate to pause during grad school, I would be alright coming out with about a 80k salary. Once again, there are so many different ways this could go… but this is one example.</p>

20

<p>Your high school counselor is not paying back the loans, and probably didn’t graduate with an engineering degree. I think her advice of going to an expensive college for a year is terrible. If you then need to transfer, you have the issue about whether UCI or one of the other UC campuses is even accepting many second year engineering transfer students, and either you won’t list HM on your resume, or if you do employers may assume (and never ask) that you transferred because you couldn’t cut it there. Transferring to HM as a junior may work (if HM takes transfers), but I would not advise any student to take the start at HM and transfer out when you can’t afford it any longer route.</p>