Top school and debt or second teir school, debt free?

Paying for College
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<p>I wouldn’t rely on getting an RA position. You have to be a senior to be a proctor, have a connection with a particular dorm, and then you have to be selected out of the candidates (I think you need a car as well). There are only 10 proctors/year.</p>

<p>I’m not exactly sure how it works, but I’m pretty sure Sallie Mae private loans defer payment of the principle loan amount until you’re completely out of school (including grad school), though you’ll have to pay the interest.</p>

<p>You can do some work study or get a job at Mudd fairly easily, but it’ll take out time to do homework or relax and I wouldn’t recommend it to a freshman at all, probably not even a sophomore.</p>

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<p>Just one question/comment from the original post. You said you cannot qualify for an unsubsidized student Stafford loan. It’s my understanding (and could be wrong) that any student can get the unsubsidized loan, it’s the subsidized loan you may not be eligible for.</p>

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<p>*She’s saying I should go to Harvey Mudd for a year, see how I like it, and if not transfer to UCI. … Or transfer as a junior to UCI. *</p>

<p>OK…that’s crazy…who wants a big debt for lower division classes??? </p>

<p>*
Or I could do the opposite and transfer as a junior to mudd. *</p>

<p>That is a more reasonable possibility.</p>

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<p>Personally, no school is worth being anywhere near $110,000 in debt. Take the free ride and NEVER look back. I PROMISE you that you will thank the fact that you followed my advice.</p>

<p>Just for grins, I calculated that you would have to pay $1,266 a month for ten years @ 6.8% in order to pay off this loan, and this assumes that you have no other loan for grad school and that this loan is subsidized ( not accruing interest while in school). If the loan had an 8% rate, you would have to pay $1,335 a year for ten years to fully amortize it. </p>

<p>If , however, it is an unsubsidized loan,which means it accrues interest while you are in school, the loan baloons to $133,832 after four years. Amortization on $133,832@ 8% would be $1,623.75 each month for ten years, and this doesn’t take inflationary costs of tuition into account! Do you really think that any school is worth this commitment?</p>

<p>By the way, don’t think your $55,000 starting salary will be able to pay this off. You will have to pay one-third of that in taxes and another 20-30% in rent and utilities. Do the math.</p>

<p>You have to be crazy to even consider this.</p>

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<p>I’m going to add this to the conversation: geez you’re a smart kid! Far too many of your similarly smart and capable peers fail to complete the basic financial analysis you have already done. I am fairly certain that you will be extremely successful regardless of where you obtain your undergraduate degree. </p>

<p>UCI is a great school. Start there and see how it goes. If you perform brilliantly at UCI and also graduate with little debt…suddenly the world is your oyster. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>Have you made an appointment and gone in to talk to the financial aid folks at Harvey Mudd? Just wondering if the finances are as done a deal as you seem to think…</p>

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<p>^^^</p>

<p>He can try talking, but the problem is that he doesn’t have “need.” He has two parents that make good money who have decided amongst themselves to only pay a certain amount. colleges don’t care about that. If they did, then all parents would just say, “Hmm, we make a lot of money, but we’re only paying X, even though the college costs Y.”</p>

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<p>^Agreed. That’s just too much debt. </p>

<p>I have seen similar situations arising with Ivy League colleges, and with Rose Hulman (similar to HM). My impression is that the only kids who can attend schools that cost $50,000 a year are either from poor families (get “need” aid) or rich families (parents fork over $50,000/year, with perhaps a small contribution from the student.)</p>

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<p>blackroses,
I think you want to go to Harvey Mudd so much that you are in denial about how this debt will affect your life. Listen to taxguy. $100k in debt is unreasonable for any school. You will be a slave to this debt for a long, long time. When you graduate from college it will not be easy to cut your debt in half in just a few years before you start grad school. Even if you have a good salary, say $80,000 a year, remember that much of that will go to state and federal taxes, medicare and social security taxes, rent, insurance, utilities, and all of the other expenses that adults are responsible for. Go to UCI, you’ll end up happier in the end.</p>

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<p>In talking with many different people I would have to say that if you have any idea of going to grad school go for the cheaper option. Unless you go right into the work force from school there is no way you should build up that much debt before you can even think of getting the money to pay it back. Also there are some really good state schools all around, I would suggest you go to one of those then for grad school you can go to a place like harvey mudd and still achieve the same level of expertise.</p>

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<p>I’m going to come at this from a different point of view.</p>

<p>You didn’t receive any need-based assistance from Harvey-Mudd and it didn’t sound like you were surprised by that. Perhaps your parents have some resources? I can’t tell whether they are will to contribute $20K or $30K per year to your education, but in any event can they contribute more? I don’t mean to offend anyone but we would have done whatever we could to get our daughter to a school like Harvey Mudd.</p>

<p>I don’t mean to sound like what they have already offered isn’t generous, because it is, but since you qualify for no financial assistance from Harvey Mudd your options are few. If $20K or $30K per year is how much they will contribute then I don’t think you should go, it will amount to too much debt for you.</p>

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<p>As a professional engineer, my advice would be to go to the less expensive school, make excellent grades, score well on the GRE, and then get into a top-notch grad school. You’d have a good chance of getting a fellowship or research assistantship, so grad school wouldn’t cost much. Frankly, it seems like a no-brainer to me.</p>

<p>Something else to keep in mind: If you’re in a state such as Texas, employers would much rather hire a grad from UT Austin than one from Dartmouth. People down there have more appreciate for a UT degree than one from a “small school” in the northeast.</p>

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<p>Thanks guys for all your input, I really appreciate it.</p>

<p>So I did some recalculating, with an 8% interest rate, taking out 17k each year, for four years, the first one would compound interest for four years, the second for three, the third for two, and the fourth for one. It actually is closer to around $83,000, which is still a lot.
My mom says she’s willing to cosign me at union bank for a loan, and since she has a good track record, can probably get me a loan with a 5.25% interest rate. That would come closer to around $77,000.</p>

<p>The weirdest thing happened. I told my mom that I had thought this through, and although I want to go to Harvey Mudd, $83,000 of debt is ridiculous. Now my mom, who has been wanting me to go to UC, when I told her I decided it would probably be better to go to UCI for two years and then transfer, she was against it! She told me since I really want to go to Harvey Mudd, I should go there. I was so surprised! Then I mentioned again that $83k was too much, and she said it was a good investment for my future. She then said if her business goes well, she might help me out more. I was so shocked. Regardless, I don’t want to end up more than say 50k in debt by the end of college. So unless I can figure out a way to do that… it looks like I’ll be going to UCI for at least my first two years. I’ll talk it over more with my parents, and see if we can work anything out. </p>

<p>I’m feeling less stressed about this, especially after talking to my friend who graduated from Pomona today. I got to sit down with him, and he shared some interesting perspectives. I know it’s a big and tough decision, but I know I can handle it and make a decision that will end up leaving me at peace with myself, even if it’s not what I want at the moment. Thanks again for all the help.</p>

<p>Oh, and mom2collegekids, I’m a girl. : )</p>

<p>@ ca_mom2000: Sorry my bad, I meant I qualified for unsubsidized loans, sorry. Got them mixed up for a second.</p>

<p>Also, I have talked to FinAid a few months ago, they told me my best best was private scholarships. I’ve rounded up $1k. I was thinking of sending them an e-mail about my concern and asking them for advice, but I really don’t think they’ll tell me anything except my loan options. I sent an email a week ago, and they said they couldn’t really give me any loan advice until after my mom’s IDOC is in.</p>

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<p>Taxman’s advice is spot on. There is no undergraduate school or program that is worth that level of debt. None. A lesson that many of my friends learned by taking out education loans --“Debt is real.” If you are going to incur significant debt for education, it makes more sense to do so for graduate school - and even then be wary. I have friends that graduated from medical school with six figure loans and it was crushing. They are making the equivalent of a house payment to service that debt. I think you are much better off minimizing your debt to attend a very good school like UCI, doing well, and then attending a great graduate school. I’m a partner at a law firm and, from an academic perspective, we don’t really care where our new associates were undergraduates. What counts is where they went to law school and how well they did there. I suspect it is similar in engineering.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

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<p>Another county heard from…</p>

<p>here’s a different perspective from the East Coast: I have heard of the University of California. My neighbor has heard of the University of California. My hair dresser and dentist and teenage niece have all heard of it. </p>

<p>I have heard of Harvey Mudd (but thought it was an artsy LAC). None of the others I mentioned in this paragraph have ever heard of Harvey Mudd. </p>

<p>That aside:</p>

<p>go to UCI. After two years, you can always think about transferring but my guess is that like a lot of other kids, you’ll like UCI, make friends, and enjoy your time there.</p>

<p>Good luck!!</p>

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<p>Do NOT incur even $81,000 for undergraduate debt. Trust me on this.</p>

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<p>Don’t even incur half of $81k for undergrad debt. It’s so easy to get stars in your eyes from prestige at your age. When you are an adult, making the same salary as everyone else, and reporting to your manager who attended a state school, you will not be happy. Your undergrad years last 4 years (hopefully). Your adult working years so much more! Take it from a Big 10 graduate who had Ivy League grads working for her, do not blow money on prestige.</p>

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<p>I have a similar question to the OP but more simplified. If you could go to a top school whose name was well-known but you had to incur debt, or a second-tier school in the middle of nowhere that hardly anyone has heard of that you got a full ride to, which one would be wiser to choose? I mean if it’s a full ride, is it really worth going to a school in the middle of nowhere that no one has heard of whose academics aren’t as strong as the top school?</p>

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<p>^that’s a hard question to answer without knowing the school and the field of study. There’s many differing viewpoints on CC on the prestige debate, with many viewpoints coming from the young student about to enter college swayed by the prestigious school he or she just got into, without the adult level wisdom of paying bills, buying houses, etc. But from an old person’s point of view, someone who has been hiring employees since the 80’s, my sentiment is this: your employee will remember where you went to school when you are hired and not afterwards. You will remember your debt for long afterwards. I can’t speak much to the engineering fields since that is not my area. From what I have seen, if you want to go into investment banking, or work for McKinsey or Bain (and then you might need your head examined for wanting that lifestyle), then the school you attend is of utmost important. If not, let your intelligence and work ethic carry you where you want to go. In this economy, which is going to be around for awhile think, I would not want to have an UG degree with any debt at all unless I was 100% certain I could get a job where that debt would be paid off quickly.</p>

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<p>^Thanks. :slight_smile: Your post really made me re-evaluate my priorities. I know I’m going into a field that is not math- or science- related and I’ll definitely have a relatively low starting salary, so debt totally wouldn’t be worth it.</p>