Top school and debt or second teir school, debt free?

Paying for College
41

<p>@sqdwfe13: I wouldn’t go to any school just for the prestige if i was going to incur debt. Harvey Mudd fits my personality really well- I love the people there, and the professors are ridiculous accommodating. This past Sunday a professor arranged a conference phone call as a response to my email, and talked to me for a good 45 minutes. I would incur debt for harvey mudd over UCI. The question is, how much debt is just foolish and naive.</p>

<p>Like I said in my last post… this might end up working out. But I don’t want to go to HMC if I’m going to be 80k in debt. I’d be willing to be 50k in debt, because with a 80k starting salary after grad school, I could pay this off in 5-10 years. That would be worth it to me. But 80k, like everyone here said, is just ridiculous. I know 50k may sound ridiculous to many people too, but that’s the upper bound of the debt I’d be willing to incur for my dream school.</p>

42

<p>Go to UC Irvine. It’s a very, very good school that attracts excellent students and is recognized nation-wide, so it’s not exactly as if you’re sacrificing “prestige” entirely. All you need, really, for an excellent education are some smart faculty and some smart fellow-students, and Irvine will supply both. It also may supply a more diverse environment than a smaller, more focused school.</p>

<p>It’s a huge advantage to be debt-free if you’re planning to go to grad school. If you’re talented and lucky, you’ll get a fellowship that will pay many of your expenses, but you may not, so you may need either to borrow money or to work for a while to save up. IMO there’s more point in paying for your “dream school” at the grad level than at the undergrad level.</p>

<p>I’m a PhD in the humanities, not engineering, but in my own education I consistently chose the slightly less prestigious option in order not to incur debt, and boy, do I not regret it. The minor disadvantage incurred by the less prestigious institution was easy to make up by excellent performance in the workplace. Meanwhile I saw many of my colleagues who had taken the “prestige” route saddled by debt repayment for decades. I’m in my 50s now, and the difference in our financial situations is still noticeable! I don’t recommend making really serious compromises–fifth-rate institutions are not going to challenge you or prepare you well for your future. But going to an excellent state school instead of a high-priced private is not in the “serious compromise” category.</p>

43

<p>If it helps at all, I went through the exact same situation with Northwestern University. It was ED and everything, but my family couldn’t afford without a huge load of debt. Eventually I decided to attend a public university instead. While it’s not quite as awesome, I have managed to find a niche, and I think it will all work out. Everyone has told me this was the wiser choice, and even though it was really tough, I think it was the right one.</p>

44

<p>*Perhaps your parents have some resources? I can’t tell whether they are will to contribute $20K or $30K per year to your education, but in any event can they contribute more? *</p>

<p>I know that the parents are divorced. So, perhaps each parent has agreed to pay X, even tho one parent may have more money than the other. I’ve seen that happen in other divorced families. One higher earning parent refuses to contribute more money than the lower earning parent. Also, sometimes there are new spouses that don’t want more money being spent.</p>

<p>If the OP can’t get some kind of merit/grant from HMC, then he either needs to go to UCI for all 4 years, or at least go there for 2 years, and then transfer to HMC. That will minimize his loans.</p>

45

<p>honestly? it’s just four years of your life. how long will you spend paying off this debt? 10+ years. it won’t affect your chances for grad school, believe me, if you work just as hard.
And…what if something goes wrong? What if you can’t find a job after graduating? What if you don’t get a fellowship to grad school? What if your mother’s business doesn’t go well, and she can’t support you? You’ll be stuck with $80k+ of debt on your shoulders. Not pleasant.
UCI is a great school, I have no idea why you are referring to it as a second tier school. Right behind UCLA and UCSD in the UC rankings.</p>

<p>I would consider greater than $30k of debt upon graduating to be significant and unreasonable. You simply do not want to have that kind of debt so young in life.
Not to mention the pressure you will be under as a freshman…you want to be able to enjoy your years of college without this debt looming over your shoulder.</p>

46

<p>To the OP:</p>

<p>I know just how hard it is to have to turn down your dream school in lieu of something less expensive… BUT just imagine how hard it will be to live like a broke college student for years after you’ve graduated! We all want to have a nice home/loft and be able to go out to eat, splurge every once in a while on clothes, etc…but realistically if you spend $110,000 now for school, you can’t spend later without being in a ridiculous amount of debt. </p>

<p>Tack onto that $110,000:
a)rent/mortgage payments
b)groceries
c)utilities
d)car payments
d)gas
e)health care
f)clothing
g)random stuff
h)kids?! (down the road but still)
With all this (and grad school) you could be very well over $250,000 in debt.</p>

<p>Honestly deciding how much to spend on school now is making a choice on what type of lifestyle you want to lead later, and it may not be fair but that’s life. At least your back-up is a well-known and respected public institution. Also I think your guidance counselor’s advice is horrible; if you must go to HM; I would say do community college for the first 2 yrs then take out the debt for jr/sr year courses.</p>

47

<p>The OP’s first post had one argument after another against going into a lot of depth, yet she was still torn with her decision. I wondered why until she shared that her mom felt she should go ahead and attend HM. Anyway, if she has been raised in an affluent home where budgeting isn’t needed then she may truly have trouble understanding how crippling massive debt can be an honestly, all of the wise advise from posters about not going into debt maybe a waste of effort as she is probably going to do what she wants to do.</p>

48

<p>^^^</p>

<p>Good point. If her parents have not been divorced long, then it’s possible that while together their two incomes let them live rather stress free about money. </p>

<p>I think the mom is being naive about the impact of such debt on her child. And, maybe she just doesn’t want her child at the same school as her ex.</p>

49

<p>That’s way too much debt.</p>

50

<p>Blackroses216: </p>

<p>You sound like a very intelligent young woman, and congratulations on your acceptances. </p>

<p>You have asked for advice here and have received many opinions. Listen to them! </p>

<p>Financial realities cannot be ignored. You are neither poor nor wealthy, are smart, and have been accepted to an elite school, which is oh-so-tempting. You find yourself in the same position as many of your smart, middle class peers–wanting the elite school but knowing that obscene debt–especially for undergrad-- is a very, very stupid idea. You know it–otherwise you wouldn’t be agonizing over it.</p>

<p>My daughter finds herself in the same situation as you. An elite private for 52K per year (offered 20K/year in scholarships, meaning 25 to 30K in loans per year), or a full merit scholarship at a strong public research university’s Honors program, carrying with it a load of perks beyond the very obvious advantage of being a free education.</p>

<p>While she mourns for the elite school, especially since her lower income classmates are quite aggravatingly getting boatloads of need-based financial aid to go there, she is also smart enough to realize what her choice has to be, perhaps in part because she has a parent (me) who will not pressure her to go into enormous debt simply so the parent can then brag to friends/relatives/colleagues about where the kid goes to school. My daughter is smart as a whip, and I let myself fantasize about that for about five minutes (heck, I’m human), then moved on, as that approach is not in a child’s best interests. </p>

<p>Going into overwhelming debt NEVER makes sense for any reason, especially not for an undergrad degree where you have other options. You are contemplating living beyond your means by considering HM, plain and simple. Acknowledge it. Btw, we are East coast, and most people say, Harvey who?" So, if your life and travels eventually carry you East, HM will likely be of little advantage.</p>

<p>Most important, your financial calculations allow for no wiggle room whatsoever in your life. What if you should become disabled, for example? The economy tanks? You suffer a job loss? Change your mind? Decide you would like to travel once in a while, or have a little bit nicer house? The realities of life often cannot be controlled, no matter how much you plan. Should you ever find yourself in a financial situation where you cannot pay your debts (see: half the population of the US for the past year or two), your financial woes will begin to rule your life, create unbelievable stress, strain relationships, etc.</p>

<p>Why would a smart kid like you put herself behind the eight ball in such a manner? Go for what you can afford. Life is short and should not be spent paying off a ridiculous, ill-advised debt from an idealistic decision made at a tender age. While I admire your desire to “dream big”, the likelihood that you will be the the one foreclosing on her mortgage and losing her house someday due to too much debt load, while your UC peers across the street lead happier, simpler lives without such complications, is certainly a relevant possibility, given your likely approach to this.</p>

51

<p>I know that some Engineers go to grad school, but is it really a forgone conclusion ? My other thought when I read the OP was whether UCI is the best of the UC schools for NE. I don’t know, I just wondered – and of course that is water under the bridge, but I’ll ask anyway in case it helps future readers.</p>

52

<p>Go for debt free alternative…I am in the same situation as you and I am choosing the debt free option.</p>

53

<p>Back in the olden days when I went to college, I was accepted to 2 colleges. One was Ivy league and the other was not. My dad said he could afford to pay the first 3 years of Ivy league, but then I was on my own. Or he could pay the whole shot at the second school which was also very good. I went to the second school and never regretted it.</p>

<p>Having said that, there are not so many bright women going out for Engineering and Harvey Mudd may be willing to contribute more to keep you. I do think you should talk to them about more scholarship money before making a final decision. If they are not willing to help, that tells you something about the school.</p>

54

<p>^^^SpeakstheTruth, your post was very informative and inspiring.</p>

55

<p>OP, you’re actually very lucky your parents can even afford 30,000$ a year. I come from a well-to-do family. However, it’s a very disruptive household and my parents never saved for my college (only last year they built a 200,000$ carriage house). Now they’re 40,000$ in debt. Originally, I really wanted to go to Northeastern Univ. for pharmacy in Boston, but in a best case scenario, I would be 136k-173k in debt. My sister is actually a freshman there. Instead, I’ll be going to URI, where I’ll be from 0k-70k in debt. After pharmacy, I might apply to med school too. </p>

<p>And speaksfortruth is right, I’m from the east coast, I had never heard of Harvey Mudd before</p>

56

<p>Blackroses216 -
I agree with the consensus - no undergrad program is worth taking on debt of the magnitude you are talking about. But, I have a thought that speaks to the near term as well. Consider how much time you’ll have to invest working a job for each school. Working a few hours in food services or the library to earn spending money is a whole lot different than working 20+ hours to keep your head above water. UCI can provide exceptional students like yourself plenty of opportunities if you have the time to take advantage of them. There’s also something to be said for balance in life. You want to work hard in college, but you want to have a little fun, too. </p>

<p>We faced the same situation with our son. The school was Cornell, the tab $58K and we don’t qualify for need. I would love to pay for my s to go there and I told him we could possibly come up with the money for him to attend… but we couldn’t swing it for him and his little brother. Since we can’t do it for both, we can’t offer it for one. We’ve done what your parents have done - we given them an amount we can feel comfortable with and that amount will cover the costs at most state universities. We’re not willing to take on debt in this economy. We wouldn’t be doing our kids any favor if they had to support us in our retirement :).</p>

57

<p>Interest never sleeps. That debt will continue to accrue, not just for four years, but for the years you’re in grad school, and the years you’ll be slowly paying it down. And every dollar you spend on paying down your debt will be a dollar that can’t go to your future rent, car, etc - your standard of living will go down. And you’re not even counting the debt you’ll add when attending grad school. And of course, what happens if, in your senior year, you wake up one morning and realize you hate your field of study, that you really want to do something entirely different? Or that you’re burned out, and want to take a year off to travel, do some service work, etc? You’ll be a hostage to that debt.</p>

<p>My advice for anyone is to try and graduate from your undergrad debt-free; your options will be much greater than if you have a mountain of debt to face. Save your debt for attending grad school (and there are ways to mitigate those costs, which in undergrad years, is more difficult.) </p>

<p>I’d say you’re very fortunate to have such a highly-ranked university as a “safety” - from this (Eastern) vantage point, UCI is every bit as prestigious as HM. I don’t even think you’re settling if you attend UCI. </p>

<p>I think here’s the calculation you need to make. If you owe $83k at 8% interest when you graduate, this is what you’re looking at:</p>

<p>Monthly payment: $600 Time to payoff: 384 months (32 years) Total paid: $230,616
Monthly payment: $1000 Time to payoff: 121 months (10 years) Total paid: $121,293</p>

<p>Looking at it another way, if you saved $600/month for those 32 years and earned 8% interest, you’d have over a million dollars saved.</p>

<p>Best of luck, whatever you decide. </p>

<p>(as an aside, there’s something wrong with our system when so many of our highest achievers coming out of high school find they can’t afford the “top-tier” schools because they’re middle-class; seems only the very rich, and the lower-income can afford to attend many of the top private schools.)</p>

58

<p>Squddy, I like your last note. It’s so true. I attend a private high school where most of the kids are super rich. Their parents are funding their entire college expenses, no matter where they go. So they’re just going to the best schools they get into without worrying about anything else. Me on the other hand? Nopeeee</p>

59

<p><a href=“as%20an%20aside,%20there’s%20something%20wrong%20with%20our%20system%20when%20so%20many%20of%20our%20highest%20achievers%20coming%20out%20of%20high%20school%20find%20they%20can’t%20afford%20the%20%22top-tier%22%20schools%20because%20they’re%20middle-class;%20seems%20only%20the%20very%20rich,%20and%20the%20lower-income%20can%20afford%20to%20attend%20many%20of%20the%20top%20private%20schools.”>quote</a>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>^^ I agree with your last statement, and at the same time, I am grateful for a system that does award scholarships to deserving poor students. The people paying full fare keep this system running. ;)</p>

<p>And there are “top tier” schools that aren’t Ivies but are tops in many fields and DO give merit aid. As we have seen from above stories, it doesn’t REALLY matter whether you went to the “universally recognized name” school or the lesser known but quite good school. In the long run.</p>

60

<p>Add to post #46 that a new employee fresh out of college needs to start saving for retirement right away. We are seeing the effects in today’s economy of baby boomers who don’t have enough to retire and there are not enough jobs for all of them. Young people cannot count on a pension, Social Security, and some companies’ 401ks are poorly managed.It sounds funny thinking about retirement at age 22, but a lot of people can’t believe how quickly middle age gets here.</p>

<p>The point is if you go into significant debt for undergrad, not only will you be sacrificing the quality of life in your working youth (when you should be having a blast), but you will also be limiting your retirement savings. Even if this were the most prestigious school in the USA, it is worth it? Quite frankly, in addition to the current state of the economy, I get concerned about the future state when I see smart students, who will have no future spending power, making these decisions.</p>