<p>UChicago - Dream school, but I don't think I can afford it. I don't want to graduate with a mountain of debt b/c I want to go to med school, but it's a really great school and #6 in the world for social science majors (me!)</p>
<p>Case Western - Good Undergrad, fantastic med school, full scholarship but a little too close to home... However, they do offer an uber competitive MD/PhD in Anthro which I'm really interested in.</p>
<p>NEOUCOM - Combined BS/MD program, I could graduate from medical school at the age of 23. Could have some loans, but not expected to be more than UChi. Not ranked as high, but very competitive. Downs: I couldn't do the MD/PhD thing.</p>
<p>HELP please! I really want to become a great doctor (probably orthopaedic surgeon or pathologist) and I could use some good advice/other points of view.</p>
<p>It depends on a lot things really, your probably around 17-18 so your idea of what you want to do with you life--doctor, which is great--can change a dozen times before you graduate. I know you think that you are dead set, everyone does, I've changed what I think I want to do about a half dozen times since I've been in school and I'm still not 100% sure although I have a good idea. </p>
<p>The combined BS/MD sounds very enticing but the thing is what happens in three years when you decide that you aren't cut out for the life of a physician? You're going to regret not pursuing an education elsewhere, most likely. The full scholarship also sounds great but again, if you're into the rigorous liberal arts/life of the mind atmosphere that exists at Uchicago then it's certainly no substitute. </p>
<p>At Uchicago however, although you may take on a hefty amount of debt, you can still pursue becoming a physician if that is what you decide to do, but if you change your mind your still at one of the best schools and academic environments in the world. </p>
<p>More doors open for you if you go to Uchi; even though some of the other doors might seem more "safe" or easy, I think it's your best choice(assuming you can afford it without putting strain on your family)</p>
<p>Edit: this is of course my opinion, I'm not trying to put my values on anyone but an outside opinion can be healthy in many cases. Others may tell you to take the safe road with the bs/md, which may actually be better for you, depending on what kind of person you are. In the end you need to seriously evaluate what you want out of your education and make the decision on your own. Obviously if you're smart enough to get into all of these schools you're smart enough to make the right decision!</p>
<p>I don't know that I can offer you a lot of advice, except for the following:</p>
<p>(1) If you think you can't afford it, you probably can't. Don't take on a mountain of debt. The University of Chicago is a great college, but you can become a great doctor without going there, and taking on a lot of debt will definitely affect what you do for graduate school and beyond.</p>
<p>(2) Your ideas about your future goals are a lot less clear than you think they are. You say you want to become a great orthopaedic surgeon or a pathologist, and an MD/PhD. From the standpoint of an adult who knows a bunch of doctors and something about their careers, that tells me you don't have much of a practical sense of those things. You might as well have said that you want to be either an NFL linebacker or a priest. As personality types, orthopedic surgeons and pathologists are about as far apart as any two specialties within the medical profession. And there may be orthopedic surgeons with PhDs, but I doubt there's many of them, and I have trouble imagining who they are.</p>
<p>Anyway, my point is that you don't really, really know what you want to do with your life yet. That's OK. But don't make decisions as if you had firm plans.</p>
<p>(3) If you are going to go to Case based on its great medical school, you had better research what percentage of medical students there come from its undergraduate college. I would also check out just how many Anthropology PhD/MDs it produces, and from what type of applicant pool.</p>
<p>Case may well be your best option, but make certain you will be happy with it even if your plans change, or if you have to look elsewhere for your MD and/or PhD.</p>
<p>I, personally, love UC and I would go even if it meant a huge mountain of debt but I realize that not everyone is like me.</p>
<p>UChi doesn't have THAT good of a pre-med program. In fact, I dont believe it has a specialized pre-med at all. This, combined with the fact bthat youre hesitant about debts, would make me suggest Case Western if I was in your shoes.</p>
<p>However, if debt is no problem and you don't mind that UChi doesn't have a specialized pre-med, I'd say go for it :)</p>
<p>When I first started applying to colleges, I had the same exact list as you. Weird. Anyways, Case is awesome but I've heard the quality of life is really poor -there was really nothing else I didn't like about it - it was my second choice. I ruled out NEOUCOM for exactly what stone said, it was a huge commitment (I want my 4 years of undergrad to be fun and free, not a compressed intense learning hysteria frenzy of death). But if you can handle it, it's a really awesome program. UChicago would give me the breadth, depth and fun...and in case I decided to change my career goals, a degree from UC is nice. You do have a tough decision to make...I think any choice you make will be great.</p>
<p>You need to be careful of how big the debt mountain is if you will need to also pay for med school, or might go into some other branch of the social sciences (which isn't exactly i-banking, salary-wise). Unless your folks are willing to pony-up for their share of the EFC at Chicago (leaving you with merely a hill of debt), I think the Case might be your best bet. The NEOUCOM program is a little scary because of the committment it implies.</p>
<p>If I really wanted to be a physician (of any type) I would give serious consideration to going the accelerated route. The number of students who go to elite colleges and then move on to run of the mill or no name medical schools (or none at all) is enormous, and frankly, I would hate myself for passing on an assured spot in an MD program in order to spend four years studying at topic that will have little or no bearing on my future (i.e. social science with pre-med). </p>
<p>Just consider the basic figures. According to the pre-health guide, only 60% of those who graduate with Honors from Chicago get into ANY medical school, while in turn 50% get Honors to begin with. So, as a back of the envelope calculation, only a little over 30% of UChicago pre-meds will ever see the inside of a MD program (adjusting for those few that get in without Honors). These are not really numbers I would want to be up against, and I would wager they are about the same or worse at Case. </p>
<p>At a summer program before college, we all kind of laughed at the idea of one of our roommates passing on a partial scholarship from Princeton for college to do NU’s combined BS-MD, but having a better sense of the competition now for medical schools, I fully understand while he locked in such a respectable course of study up front.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Based on the proportion of the graduating class, the University of Chicago consistently ranks among the top universities nationally for the percentage of applicants to medical schools who eventually enroll in a medical program. This level of success is a testament both to the strength of the academic preparation that a Chicago education provides and to the tremendous advising resources that Chicago makes available to all students interested in applying to medical school.
<p>uchicagoalum: I agree.The year you save up front will mean a year added to the end of your productive professional life at maximum earning power: it would probably pay for your whole education plus your children's.</p>
<p>"I fully understand while he locked in such a respectable course of study up front."</p>
<p>That's the phrase that bothers me - locked in. If you are absolutely committed to being a physician at 17 or 18, then perhaps the program is for you. You would have to be very sure, though.</p>
<p>yeah but the thing is that if you're absolutely "locked-in" to being a physician you could probably become a much better one by going to Uchicago and applying to med-school from there. You'll likely end up getting a better education at Chicago, and if you do well end up going to a much better medical school.</p>
<p>I just don't see a valid reason why you would want to go anywhere else other than the debt, which is certainly a very big concern but if it were me I'd do it anyway.</p>
<p>I know about these 3 options, have considered them all, and applied to 2 of them</p>
<p>did you get into PPSP at Case?</p>
<p>Personally, I'd go to the U of C. in my opinion, frankly Case and NEOUCOM are not good enough to go to in any case. the only reason I applied to Case was for the PPSP program but ended up not getting it.
NEOUCOM is not prestigious in any way. I simply forgot about it as an option</p>
<p>the U of C will be 4 of the best years of your life. Debt can be worked out. appeal to the financial aid office for more funds.</p>
<p>As others have commented, there are many variables to consider. From my perspective, as an MD/PhD physician scientist, the key is to keep as many doors open as possible before you embark on this very long road. Emphasis on long. FWIW, I had similar decisions to make many years ago, for example, I chose UC Berkeley over UChicago largely for financial reasons. It worked out great and I look back on my undergraduate years with great fondness. But I am sure that UChicago would have been great as well. As a matter of fact, my daughter will be matriculating there in the Fall and I am thrilled for her.</p>
<p>Just some general opinions from someone who has been there, done that and is also deeply involved in Med School education.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>While the combined BA/MD programs are enticing (one of my trainees completed the Albany program), try to remember that you have a long career ahead of you to pursue medicine and only 4 years to go to college. Frankly, if you are considering OrthoSurg or Path you will be completing long postgraduate training periods and if you want to go to academic medicine -- add an intense post-doc to the mix. It's a real treadmill at times -- and while I understand the desire to cut off a year or two early on, try to resist this. Enjoy your undergraduate time to the fullest -- you will never have the opportunity to indulge your intellectual curiosity (without job/grant pressures) like this again. 30 years from now you will never regret having experienced a real 4-year undergraduate experience, you might regret having skipped it.</p></li>
<li><p>Medicine is constantly changing -- it will be very different when it is your turn. For example, academic medicine is experiencing a great deal of turmoil at present, try to choose a school where you can be exposed to both physicians and physician-scientists so you can see where you best fit. </p></li>
<li><p>If you truly decide you want to become a physician scientist and successfully compete for NIH funding at the R01 level, go MD-PhD. Graduate training in the basic sciences is another facet of training that you will never regret and gives you a significant leg up. Plus, it's a blast.</p></li>
<li><p>If you decide to go MD-PhD, get involved in research at your university at your first opportunity. Find a subject you enjoy, join a lab (and stay there) and try to earn the opportunity to run your own project (work hard). While grades are important, the MD-PhD programs want to see that you have significant experience. Bear in mind that you really won't know if this is the career you want to pursue until you try it, there is no substitute for that experience. And not just standing at the bench and pipetting. People dropout of grad school all the time when they realize what is truly involved. In my case, my undergraduate research experience changed my life -- instead of applying to straight Med Schools, I only applied to MD/PhD and PhD programs. I never thought of becoming a physician-scientist until my junior year.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>So, I would argue against getting "locked in" early --- I routinely tell applicants that the road to being a physician scientist is far, far more flexible than it seems. In my case, I changed my choice for my medical specialty <em>after</em> my first year of internship -- if anyone had suggested to me in med school that I would end up in my eventual field I would have laughed.</p>
<p>So pick a great school-- keep your options open and enjoy yourself. Plenty of time to get on this long road.</p>
[quote]
... the Accelerated Medical Scholars Program––replaces the Early Admissions Programs for University of Chicago undergraduates. Modeled on pre-existing professional options programs in the Harris School of Public Policy and the Graduate School of Business, the Accelerated Medical Scholars Program provides exceptional students with the flexibility to move forward in their medical education during their fourth year in College and obtain credit for both their undergraduate and their medical degrees. The program will benefit the medical school by bringing those University of Chicago undergraduates, who have potential to make important future contributions in science and medicine, into our community of scholars. It will benefit the students by shortening their application cycle, reducing their years in school and reducing their overall educational debt.
<p>Appreciate your very thoughtful post jct. However, I would think that, if you really want to be a physician, a big if considering that you are only 17 or 18, it would be a lot less stressful and enjoyable to be in a program where you don't have to be constantly worrying about whether you'll be accepted to Medical School after 4 years of college (most don't make it). It'll be interesting to know the retention rate of students in programs like this. (also remember that from the perspective of a 17 year old, 1 year is 1/17 of your life. For a 50 year old it's 1/50).</p>
<p>Like I said, Medicine is not monolithic (note the OP mentioned OrthoSurg and Pathology, virtual diametric opposites on all levels). If you ask anyone in current practice they will comment on how the practice of medicine is changing. I would argue that most people would be better off trying to have a varied undergraduate experience and try to obtain more real-world exposure to their future career before locking into a 6-year program.</p>
<p>Note that there is a definite trend among Medical Schools to admit people that have spent some time gathering experience after graduation, much like Law and Business schools. Makes for a better experience all around-- for the student, the school and the eventual patients. </p>
<p>And regarding "stress reduction" by not having to worry about getting into Med School? There are still pretty strict performance requirements for students in 6-year programs, it's not like you can slack. The bottom line is that if you want to be a doctor you had better get used to working hard and being the best. Yes, it is hard to get into Medical School, but not impossible by any means. If you have some reasonable aptitude for the sciences and are willing to work hard to attain a high GPA and do the drudge work that goes with doing well on the MCAT you are most of the way there. </p>
<p>Besides, what if you turn out to be a real ace as an undergraduate, such that you could have successfully competed for a slot at the most selective schools (maybe with research that you've grown to love). You've lost the chance and the opportunities that come with it. </p>
<p>Maybe it's just me, but starting your career by setting limitations out of the gate seems like a false economy when all you really gain is a year or two.</p>
<p>wait the GSB has a prebusiness track??? If this is true, then if I haven't received anything from U of C in my acceptance package, does this mean that I 'm not in?</p>