And the actual crime statistics show that the per capita rape cases are far higher at Reed and Swarthmore than at U Alabama. Despite what some posters seem to want to believe.
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This is not at all what the study found. From the paper . . .
An interesting facet of the latter study is that men who joined fraternities were just as likely to have committed sexual violence prior to college as men who did not join. Thus, it was not men who had a prior history of sexual violence who gravitated toward fraternities. Rather, it appeared to be the fraternity culture itself that was responsible for a threefold increase in rape among fraternity men.
Further . . .
These studies left little doubt that fraternity men are more likely to commit rape. Still, not all fraternity men rape and not all fraternities themselves permit such behavior. Evidence suggests there are some fraternities that have particularly dangerous cultures. Current research suggests that some men are drawn to certain fraternities where they believe they will be better able to commit sexual violence. Evidence suggests that these fraternities reinforce hostility toward and violence against women (Boyle, 2015).
But why are fraternities and rape so strongly associated? Part of the answer may involve the pressure fraternity men experience to conform. For example, fraternity men are pressured to conform to masculine norms, to uphold those norms, and to accept the objectification of women. These three characteristics are found to be the conduit between being in a fraternity and accepting sexual violence (Seabrook, Ward, & Giaccardi, 2018).
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I would whole heartedly agree with the corollary that not all schools are a good fit for all students.
Frequently on CC we see threads go from chance me, to what’s your financial need, to Alabama (based on paying for smart kids) is your best option in no time in the absence of a discussion about the totality of what the kid wants and needs.
While I agree kids can find their way at most schools and as you say “make of it” a good experience, the answer to all questions should not in my opinion be UA. This documentary is an element of the UA experience that should be considered when UA is brought up.
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Presumably, so should the statistics of rape at Reed, Wesleyan and Swarthmore?
I certainly agree that UA is not for everyone, nor is any school. As a large public flagship, it has a diversity of types of students, and most should be able to find their group there, even outside of Greek life. Mine were never interested in flagships, but for those who are, it can certainly be considered, particularly given its price point.
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Unfortunately, those statistics may tell us more about where students are comfortable reporting sexual assault rather than where it is most common.
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Abstract
We examined the prevalence and repeat offenses of college men, including fraternity men and student athletes, taking advantage of someone sexually while under the influence of alcohol. Preexisting data from the Core Alcohol and Other Drug Survey included a sample of 12,624 college men at 49 community and 4-year colleges. Results provide further evidence that the problem of campus rape is largely one of serial perpetration. More than 87% of alcohol-involved sexual assault was committed by serial perpetrators. Fraternity men and student athletes were significantly more likely to commit alcohol-involved sexual assault than other men on campus.
Who are “other men on campus”? I knew two rapists when I was a college student. One in a fraternity, one not, neither were athletes, I fought them both off; only one attended my college. Of course, no one wants to watch that on television.
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Thanks for posting the abstract, but I’ve read it. The additional quotes I provided are from the paper itself. It suggests the opposite of your interpretation of the abstract alone.
As for your personal experiences, I am sorry you had to go through that.
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And? I have not engaged in any of the digression regarding sexual violence nor do I disagree with you.
Please don’t direct that comment at me along with the implication it conveys that I have diminished the importance of the disclosure of rape.
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Oh I never meant to direct it towards you. Sorry about that.
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As @mtmind said, you can’t compare college-to-college statistics like that. Any dive into crime issues on campus has shown that it isn’t an apples-to-apples comparison. There are many factors, including how encouraging a school is to student reporting and how the school collects the data, that have a huge impact. The discussion is similar when people start arguing about how safe a campus is and start quoting figures they find on a cursory google search.
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I understand your point, but since a prior poster suggested that the UA campus was likely the site of sex assault due to its Greek life, it does seem appropriate to point out many schools without Greek life seem have the same problem.
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Because Greek orgs are not open to anyone (like virtually every on-campus club/ affiliate group as well as private clubs for adults), they will always attract voyeurs. There will always be young people who seek fame and fortune and will use their circumstances to strive for that. It is misleading to suggest that a crime is more likely to occur on a certain type of campus than another without looking at actual crime reporting data. I don’t see a stark contradiction between the abstract and the body of the study cited above as the PP suggested, and that’s because of how the study was done, as can be seen in the methods section.
I would hope that this show will not cause young people to be afraid of certain affiliate groups over others at every campus. That would be a shame. Joining a greek org is a personal decision, but fear is not a realistic reason not to join one or attend an event at one. They are most certainly not all alike, even different chapters of the same org.
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Could it also be that fraternities have a culture of drinking at social events. Thus, women (who attend events) and men who drink excessively tend to make bad decisions. I am not justifying rape but bad can things happen when people drink too much.
And fraternities are not the only places where people drink, including college students. Bars? Restaurants? Country Clubs?
I would also hope that parents don’t naively believe that there is less alcohol/drug use on campuses with fewer or no greek orgs based on these shows.
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How many of that 11% are participating in NPC rush? How many white (or any race other than black) are in the Divine 9 sororities? The NPC houses can’t ask them to join if they don’t go thru rush.
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I also think it is not fair to say one college or university makes students feel more comfortable with reporting crime than another without actual proof.
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Second kid went to a T-15 elite university (no Greek life on or off campus btw). The drug/alcohol culture was pervasive and the school turned a blind eye to all of it.
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Your claim was, “the pictures I see represent the student bodies.” For whatever the reason, at Alabama, the sorority memberships do NOT “represent the student body.” That’s all I was addressing.
As for why the memberships of the sororities at Alabama don’t represent the student body, I don’t know. My guess it is because of multiple overlapping factors. But let’s assume that most black students don’t want anything to do with the APA sororities. Wouldn’t that tell us something about whether the sororities were viewed as welcoming and inclusive places?
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Agree. Just because a racist, elitist sorority volunteers at the library (or wherever) does not excuse their racist, elitist behavior.
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Not sure why directed at me. I agree with your premise but have no first hand experience with anyone at UA to suggest they are racists. I take that claim very seriously and wouldn’t make it cavalierly.
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