Training/Opportunities vs. Natural Talent

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>This topic seems to be of interest to some who have responded to some of my posts on other threads, so I thought I'd start a new one. </p>

<p>I stay strong in my feelings that a lot of people have been very successful in this field based on natural talent and that no program and/or private lessons could ensure success. However, it seems to me that having the kinds of opportunities that so many of your children have been given puts them ahead of the game. Yes, a lot of kids come from very modest backgrounds and have had to work themselves up. If the drive is there, they will achieve what they set out to achieve. On the other hand, however, the kids who have been able to attend fancy camps, taken private lessons, come from schools that have large performing arts departments, etc., are definitely at an advantage in terms of networking, gaining important self-confidence, etc. I am not saying that these camps, lessons are necessary in order achieve success. I'm only saying it doesn't hurt and can definitely help. Yes, Stagedoor may not prepare kids for college auditions, but their experiences at SDM makes them stronger, more confident and ready to face the competition if that is what they want. While a lot of the kids accepted into BFA programs have come from modest backgrounds in terms of finances and opportunities, it is only natural that the ones who went into the auditions knowing what they were up against were at a better advantage. And that advantage comes from their experiences.</p>

<p>To Soozievt: Your post on the Otterbein College thread with regard to the fact your daughter lives in a rural state with little opportunity and that you feel my child has more performing opportunites in Florida definitely warrants a response. First of all, if Florida has a lot of opportunity, it's not in my area. There is one dinner theater within a 120 mile radius of my location and, as you know from other forums, the director leaves a lot to be desired and frequently uses his own daughter in productions, thereby ruling out all other possible candidates. My kids have been successful in dinner theater and regional theater, yes, but it hasn't been local. Also, both my girls take private voice lessons and acting classes in a city 75 miles from home. There is nothing of quality in this area, and with the exception of two very good ballet teachers, dance training here is mediocre at best.</p>

<p>I get the impression that so many people believe I'm trying to justify my child's rejection by belly-aching that she wasn't given the kind of opportunities some others have. That's not the case at all. In fact, I'm quite proud of my child's accomplishments to date, given the kind of adversity she's had to face in order to achieve them. And, to be accepted into the only school for which she auditioned for both BA Theater AND BM Voice is truly something to take note of. </p>

<p>But, it's still fact that opportunities and experiences make better, stronger people and some of these kids are able to go into these auditions ahead of the game psychologically. Yes, natural talent will certainly shine through at an audition, and nothing can replace that. But, it's only part of the battle.</p>

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<p>Personally I think that lessons and mt camp experience is wonderful and of course adds to the performer's success as a whole. However, without the daily dedication to practicing, there wouldn't be a tremendous gain. How can you compare a few summer weeks with day to day diligence? I would think that having a mom who was a music teacher and could play well and could vocally coach their child everyday during their practice times would be a very valuable thing! Congrats by the way on your daughter's wonderful acceptance. I'm sure your talents and encouragement were a huge contribution to her success.</p>

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<p>i don't think we're talking about one thing as opposed to the other. we're talking about several different activities that are all good and all enhance the path to success. there's no argument to be made here. natural talent is critical. can you get by with just that? sometimes, but that's the exception. in any field, sports or the arts, where a physical activity is involved, training will always enhance that ability. there's just no argument to be made for that. and, of course, daily work and practice are probably the most important of all, along with experience. there's no substitute for time on stage. all of these things are important and they all help. and the more you have of any one of them, the better off you are. no, it doesn't guarantee success and you can do all and not be successful. but, it's just a given than any and/or all of these things are beneficial and do make a difference. there's no need for any of us to be defensive about any training or opportunities we're been able to provide. we all just do what we can. lauren's voice teacher lives almost an hour from us.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your kind words. You'd be surprised, however, at how much resistance I've faced with regard to wanting to coach my kids at their daily practice sessions. While they have appreciated the piano, coaching has been another issue. I've had a lot more success with students vs. my own children. Apparently, they both feel I should be "mom" and not "coach". I always felt it was financially stupid for me to find voice lessons for my own children when they have it right here, but they've responded better to "outsiders".</p>

<p>But, it's only in voice. I've been quite successful in teaching my younger dd piano. Go figure.</p>

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<p>well, speaking of auditions, we have one at sam houston today at 3:00 so, i have to get off here and get going. let's hope that all this natural talent and training see her through. they're only taking 5 so i'm asking for a bit of prayer here that she can just give her best. she started coming down with a cold a couple of days ago. but we got a steroid shot yesterday (that does seem to help, by the way) and put her on zicam and decongestant and she seems to be doing pretty well so praises for that. have a good day, everyone. jamie</p>

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<p>MidgetMom, I agree, it is really hard to work with your own kids, even when you are a teacher!</p>

<p>MrsArk, good luck to your D today! For some reason, I can't keep it all straight as I thought she was going to OCU, sorry! Hope she comes away from the audition feeling she did well because I find that is the most you can really hope for and the rest is out of your hands. Fingers crossed if this is the one she wants!
Susan</p>

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<p>Yes of course lessons, camps, experiences give an advantage to kids. Family connections are really nice to..who you know. It drives me nuts when I see folks with limited talent but family connections..but thats just how it is! Argh!</p>

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<p>MidgetMom--and all of us parents.Growin up in America, we learned that it was a truth that all men(!) are created equal. And that's just not true. We all have different strengths and weakness, different opportunities. As parents, we want to give our children everything, and when we don't have a choice about giving them some things, it is hard.</p>

<p>So here we are supporting our children in their desire to pursue musical theatre. We know it's a hard road and as caring parents we want to make that road easier. Do the kids who have spent 5-10 summers focussing on theatre have an advantage? Some do over some kids. When I hear who got in where, yes, there are kids who went to camps, or performing arts schools, or have a lot of out of school experience. But then there are also kids who did one play junior year and decided they like this and get into incredible programs. I look at my D--she goes to public school, takes voice lessons and has performed since 10th grade. Last summer she did the CMU program, which is wonderful and helped her figure out that this is what she wants to do. Well, she didn't get into the top programs. And I suspect that her auditions weren't as good, but I don't believe that reflects what her potential is.</p>

<p>Our kids are going to grow and learn--or not--it's really up to them, and they're going to figure out what compromises they need to make. Success can be defined in many ways--it's not just making it on Broadway.</p>

<p>And most important, I hope they stay healthy, find people to love and who love them</p>

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<p>Yes yes yes, newmtmom! Wonderfully said!</p>

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<p>Woot! Woot! newmtmom- I totally agree.</p>

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<p>Woot, woot from me, too. God bless.</p>

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<p>home again. yes, lauren is pretty set on ocu but hasn't yet gotten into their mt program, but the theatre performance. so we decided to check out the program at sam houston. it went well. so we'll just see what happens. we're still more impressed with ocu.</p>

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<p>Newmtmom, I just have to make one comment on your excellent post. You said your D didn't get into any of the top programs. But what makes a "top" program? Beyond the big-name marquee programs are many wonderful ones. If a program sees a kid's talent, drive and spark; welcomes her or him into the fold; has a well-structured curriculum; has faculty who know what they're doing and have a passion to teach it; spends four years providing education, motivation, opportunity, talent development, skill-building, and preparation for the real world of MT...well, to me that's a top program, and I don't care what its name is.</p>

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<p>While you all make a valid point, one friend of mine told me an agent in NYC said when casting a show, if it comes down to people he doesn't know or who are relatively new, he will always go with the school he knows, that being CCM at the top. CCM is the oldest and first program in MT, now 35 yrs. old. It is rated No. 1 in the NY Agents Book. Theatremania.com also regularly reviews their show and their MT program's senior showcase, and also rates them No. 1. This is the casting agent for Rent, Wicked, Hairspray, etc. So, as they say, go for the Gold.</p>

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<p>If the school is so important, what about all those brilliant actors who have never set foot on a campus, went to a "normal" public high school, and whose training is here and there from anywhere when he could get the money?</p>

<p>IMHO, it's a close-minded individual who will look at the school before the person. As has been said so many times on this forum, if a performer razzle-dazzles them, that's all that should matter.</p>

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<p>You wrote:
"MidgetMom, I agree, it is really hard to work with your own kids, even when you are a teacher!"</p>

<p>When my younger dd was in the fifth grade in a private elementary school, I saw that she wasn't being challenged enough and decided to take her out, homeschool her and accelerate her a year (she has a September birthday and here in Florida September is the cutoff), and then have her audition for the PA high school.</p>

<p>I'm proud to say, it all worked out and she'll be entering the PA high school in August. However, it's been a rough road, and very challenging. I think most kids want moms to be moms and teachers to be teachers. No matter how dedicated a parent is to supporting and educating their children, in my child's case, the two roles shouldn't interfere with each other. The same goes for music lessons. Like I posted above, I always found it financially ridiculous to spend money on piano and voice when I'm certified, but both my girls have thrived outside of home. They were responsive, however, when I was musical director for their summer program. Maybe it's the one-on-one that bothers them. </p>

<p>But, I guess it depends on the child, because one of the my dd's friends was in her own mother's 5th grade class at the private elementary school my dd attended.</p>

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<p>Well, it’s a cold Saturday morning with too much pollen in the air to go outside, so I guess I’ll chime in while it warms up and the Bromelain kicks in. </p>

<p>I go to an arts high school that has a very good placement record in college programs. We have kids from our various arts areas at the most prestigious conservatories in the U.S. and abroad. I’ll have to say, however, that at least for actors, all this pre-professional training on the high school level can be a double-edged sword as far as college admissions go. What we do here covers everything most BFA actor training programs do in their first year and well into the second at some others. While it’s certainly an advantage to come in with this type of training at places like RADA, Juilliard, NCSA, etc., it can work against us at others where they admit a lot of “rawer” talent and fear we might get bored and leave the program first year or possibly even become a malcontented distraction. Some other schools might prefer to take students with less training and/or experience just for the fact that they’ll have no preconceptions about things and won’t have to “unlearn” a lot. After all, there are a lot of ways to skin a cat, and if a cat is already partially skinned one way, some might prefer to take a fresh one if they use a different method. </p>

<p>Due to my mom’s rule that if I was going to go out-of-state, I would have to get a full scholarship or close to it and my best bet was to get one through my academic stats, I ventured outside-the-box from the “usual suspect” schools our alumni attend and felt like I was being put in the position of having to defend myself against questions that were probing for potential first-year boredom during the interviews at a couple of auditions. It was also the case last year with a friend of mine who got some amazing acceptances, but was rejected from some schools that were much lower on her list. So, I guess the moral here is that you really should audition for a large variety of schools no matter what your past training has been because there will be a place for you somewhere if you can show signs of talent no matter what your past training has been.</p>

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<p>Artsymom--I agree with you. I can't speak for anyone else's kids, but my D has so much to learn, and there are lots of wonderful educators in many schools, so I think wherever she goes, she has the opportunity to get a good education. ULtiimately, it's what she does with it. The fact is--and I think for the better, it's not in our hands. And there is no "right way" to go about this. It's ironic--to me, one of the wonderful things that the arts teach us is that there are myriad ways to approach a problem--there are multiple truths that are often contradictory. Each of our kids is going to have to find his/her own path. Our trying to second guess everything for them isn't going to work, and it wouldn't help them. I think it's pretty damn exciting. In the scheme of things, our children are so fortunate--they have so much opportunity--whether they go to CCM, CMU, Otterbein, Milliken, Sam Houston, wherever. Hopefully we've taught them what's important in life and they'll move on into this next step in their lives with a good set of life skills.</p>

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<p>Let me share a wonderful "small town girl makes good story" with you. Without me giving too many pertinent details, as I am not sure this young lady would like to be identified, I will make this short and to the point.</p>

<p>A young lady graduates from high school with a total of 5 in her graduating class. She attends one of the top MT BFA programs in the country her freshman year, but decides to transfer to a different MT BFA the following year. The school she transfers to has an excellent reputation, but is a bit under the radar compared to other schools. Recently she performed in her NYC senior showcase and was handed big opportunities right and left.</p>

<p>So what played the most important factor to her "success"? I would say there are many....including the stars alligning in her favor. You never ever know.</p>

<p>Have a wonderful weekend everyone!!</p>

<p>5pants aka SUE</p>

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<p>Hey 5Pants-- just wondering... what made the girl transfer out of the well-known school into the lesser-known one?</p>