<p>Currently, I'm planning to complete a second Bachelor's degree. Second Bachelor's admissions are treated as transfer admissions, at least at the universities I've looked at. Essentially, you transfer in the individual courses from your first Bachelor's degree, up to the maximum allowable number of transfer credits. Then you have to complete major requirements and fulfill any residency requirement.</p>
<p>The good news is that my GPA for my first Bachelor's degree was 3.8. My SAT score is over 1400 if they still care at this point.</p>
<p>The first potential problem: If you average in some coursework I took after actually receiving my first Bachelor's degree, my GPA would drop to approximately 3.65. FWIW, the additional coursework was at McGill, which is widely known to be rigorous and not to inflate grades. To what extent are admissions officers likely to consider this additional coursework?</p>
<p>The second potential problem: The private liberal arts college that awarded my first Bachelor's degree offered a reasonably good education. However, it's not very well known outside the immediate area. Nor is it particularly selective; it essentially competes with the local directional public university for students. (Fortunately, it's somewhat stronger academically than said directional public university.) To what extent is its lack of prestige going to count against me?</p>
<p>I was there primarily because of having few options for financial reasons. My parents had a high enough income that financial aid wasn't going to be sufficient to attend most private universities. But they also didn't see the value of attending a school that was a good fit. The flagship public university in the state where I was a resident at the time was a very poor fit, long story short. All of the directional schools in this state were widely considered to be weak. Ultimately, a merit scholarship made it possible to attend the college I graduated from. Does the fact that my options were limited for financial reasons make it more understandable to have graduated from an unprestigious university as far as admissions officers are concerned?</p>
<p>i dont know what you mean by a “second bachelors”, but if you have more than a couple of years under your belt it likely wont matter</p>
<p>i dont know what you mean by “help” or “hurt”…its all relative…for example, to take matters to the extreme, a 3.0 from mcgill wouldnt hurt your chances to transfer to say a community college. it would however hurt your chances to say harvard…if you want better answers on here you should probably divulge the details of your situation (ie, where you are at now, where you want to transfer to)</p>
<p>adcomms will consider additional coursework just like any other coursework, and if you took it at an ostensibly competitive university and you are trying to xfer to a more competitive university, perhaps they would factor it in more as it may be a better measurement for potential success at their institution</p>
<p>essentially, the purported prestige (or lack thereof) of a school usually matters less than most people would imagine…people transfer to great schools all the time on here with 3.8-4.0’s from cc’s and lower tier schools…by the same token, i doubt adcomms will sympathize much with a poor performance at a more prestigious school just because the work is harder than you are used to and they dont inflate their grades</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice. It helps to hear that prestige is less of a factor than people think.</p>
<p>Good questions. I erred on the side of not boring people with extra details in my original post. You’re probably right that they’re necessary.</p>
<p>I actually already have a Bachelor’s degree, in Computer Science. However, I’m planning to change careers. The problem is that Computer Science has little overlap with any other field of study. So my previous preparation does not serve as a background to do anything else. Nor does it even serve as an adequate background to jump directly into graduate school for a completely different field. The only solution that I can see is to get another Bachelor’s degree.</p>
<p>I’m actually not attending any university right now. I’m in the IT field, when I can find work. I graduated from a private liberal arts college which is in the top 25 “Master’s Universities” in the Midwest. The 3.8 GPA includes coursework which was transferred in. This coursework includes:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>A 4.0 GPA at what is arguably one of the strongest community colleges in the country. Additionally, the community college offered an Honor’s Program, which I completed.</p></li>
<li><p>A 3.5 GPA for two semesters of classes at a flagship state university.</p></li>
<li><p>A semester of courses taken at a directional state university within commuting distance.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>The additional coursework was 24 semester hours of undergraduate coursework taken at McGill expressly to prepare for a graduate program. I didn’t actually proceed to the graduate program, primarily due to a change of career plans and insufficient funds.</p>
<p>The coursework at McGill was three years ago. My (first) Bachelor’s degree was awarded almost a decade ago. Hopefully, this lessens the impact of any past mistakes.</p>
<p>The universities I’m most interested in attending, in alphabetical order:
Columbia’s School of General Studies - admittedly a reach in terms of both admission and finances
McGill
University of Wisconsin at Madison</p>
<p>I’d consider others that meet the following criteria:
Strong academics
National reputation
Allows second Bachelor’s degrees - many universities don’t
The cost-benefit analysis makes sense. Little financial aid is available to me except $12,500 per year in Stafford loans.
<p>from what i understand, perhaps you know more about the program than i do, columbia school of general studies is far easier to get into than cc so you should have a shot…mind you, you dont receive the same degree cc kids do</p>
<p>your sat scores are meaningless at this point</p>
<p>usually financial aid for xfers is not quite forthcoming, you might have hard time getting it especially if you already have a degree already…you may have a good deal of trouble getting financial aid, especially at the more known national universities…perhaps a state school is your best bet if finances are restricted…admissions to mcgill are probably highly contigent on your performance there when you took classes there…or was that over a decade ago? </p>
<p>if in fact you received your degree over a decade ago, i would think your admissions is probably highly dependent on what you have done after you got your degree…i really think an alternative program like columbia gsp would be best for you, it would be more relevant to a potential career and taking intro classes with 18-19 might be a bit weird</p>
<p>Yes, I’ve thoroughly investigated Columbia GS. This includes a campus visit and conversations with admissions staff.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>If it’s easier to be admitted than at Columbia College, it’s not dramatically so. Another poster on these forums was told directly by admissions officers that they normally are looking for GPA’s of at least 3.7. Hence the concern about whether my GPA is really 3.8 or 3.65, or whether the 3.8 is really treated as a 3.8…</p></li>
<li><p>This difficulty of admission is partly because they do issue the same degree to GS graduates as to CC graduates. Of course, a specific employer or other person might choose to look down on a GS degree. But that’s their own personal prejudice, not an official distinction.</p></li>
<li><p>With the exception of one writing course, GS students are fully integrated into CC courses.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Actually being integrated with the daytime population is probably better than the alternatives from my point of view. I’m concerned about a lot of night school programs because in many cases, they’re unofficially less rigorous than their corresponding daytime programs. The obvious exceptions would be programs like Penn’s College of Liberal and Professional Studies, which is explicitly a night school.</p>
<p>Most of the required general education coursework should be complete. I’d probably only need to complete degree requirements.</p>
<p>I’m fully aware that I’d have to pay the full sticker price. “Not quite forthcoming” is an understatement. There’s almost no financial aid, with the exception of Stafford loans and private loans. Unfortunately, none of my in-state public universities are particularly appealing for various reasons. The good news is that there’s a realistic possibility that I can come up with enough money within two years to complete a degree while only needing Stafford loans and possibly part-time work.</p>
<p>My reasons for not immediately seeking a graduate degree are as stated above. One wouldn’t complete two years of general education courses and then try to jump directly to graduate school in some field. Yet, there is such minimal overlap between Computer Science and any other field that for me to directly attend graduate school in another field would be effectively the same thing. Now, I may eventually seek a graduate degree anyway. But if I’m at least halfway to getting a second Bachelor’s degree just from the courses I would need for prerequisites, it would seem to make sense just to actually get the degree.</p>
<p>Take3, you mentioned that LPS was exclusively a night school and I wanted to say something in that regard. I have heard mixed things from students at Penn, students at LPS when it was still called CGS, and admissions reps. from LPS. They assure me that LPS students can live on campus and basically have a normal undergrad experience and that there is no distinction between a student from LPS and say CAS (which sounds too good to be true and probably is). But yea, I heard in Columbia’s situation, the degree will say CC, SEAS, BC ( Barnard), or CGS, so there definitely is a recognizable difference on the degree even though in reality there is no real concrete difference.
Is LPS really a strictly night-based institution? Any other clear distinctions between an undergraduate degree from LPS and any other undergraduate school at Penn?</p>
<p>Sorry, I should have been more clear about Penn’s College of Liberal and Professional Studies. LPS classes are in fact generally offered in the evening or on Saturday. (A few courses listed in the catalog start at 4:30 PM, and one even starts at 3:30 PM.) However, you can also take classes at Penn which are not offered by LPS, provided that space is available. It’s just that they cost full price, at $4,751 per class. See: [Other</a> Tuitions | College of Liberal and Professional Studies at The University of Pennsylvania](<a href=“http://www.sas.upenn.edu/lps/tuition/other_schools]Other”>http://www.sas.upenn.edu/lps/tuition/other_schools) Obviously, this is prohibitively expensive.</p>
<p>You are also correct that the degree specifies which college issued it. It’s still the same degree otherwise. This is different than, for example, the Harvard Extension School. Their degrees are denoted “A.L.B.” instead of “B.A.” or “B.Sc.”.</p>
<p>It’s not that I have anything against taking classes at night per se. It’s just that at many programs, they may unofficially be less rigorous. Again, I don’t think this would be the case at Penn LPS. Nor do I have any real desire to live on campus at this point in my life. Although it would be nice to get involved beyond just showing up in class.</p>
<p>Regarding career goals, this is a valid question. Over time, my interests have developed and become more clear. I’ve discovered an interest in writing. I’ve also developed a concern for issues affecting society. What’s less clear is how to integrate all of this into a career path. I don’t even know what careers exist which relate to my interests. Of course, this is something that will be clarified before actually starting an academic program. It’ll be a year or two at least before there is enough money to start an academic program anyways.</p>
<p>Tech was something I was pushed into. Also, university should normally involve a personal growth process which helps one understand who they are and what they would want to do with their life. For me, this didn’t fully happen. University was a painful, isolating experience for me. It wasn’t until attending McGill to prepare for grad school that I came to realize who I was. I didn’t have to be, and also didn’t want to be, primarily a number cruncher. This was also where I started to develop a concern for the health of our society and world. From a purely academic standpoint, I also gained an interest in studying the great works by the original thinkers themselves.</p>
<p>Nor is going back to university entirely about career preparation. I’m also interested in getting an education on a deeper level than was available to me in the past.</p>
<p>Having a clear job goal will be important for determining how much in loans it’s prudent to take. I would avoid expensive options if you want to be a social worker or a journalist.</p>
<p>I will probably only need to attend for two years. $12,500 per year in Stafford loans are available for each year. So that’s a total of $25,000, and at low interest rates. That should be manageable.</p>
<p>At US universities, I should be able to earn enough by working part-time to cover living expenses. So by saving up $20K in advance, it would be possible to attend a university costing up to $22,500 per year.</p>
<p>Shockingly, even Columbia GS would cost about this much if you only took 24 credits per year. They charge $1,210 per credit, as opposed to charging a flat rate for anywhere from 12 to 18 credits per semester. So it’s ostensibly $29,040 per year. But they typically award a scholarship of between $6K to $8K per year, which would bring the total to the $21-23K range. Obviously, that would require a third year. But then another $12,500 in Stafford loans is available.</p>
<p>Now if I went back to McGill, the ability to work on a student visa is limited. So I’d need to pay about $10K (US) per year for living expenses. But there, the Stafford loans would cover tuition at McGill completely (at current exchange rates.) So here again, I’d have to save $20K in advance.</p>
<p>Saving up $20K in two years isn’t impossible, but will probably require sacrifices. I’ve worked long hours before. I’ve also lived in rooms in questionable neighborhoods. There are ways to save this kind of money if one is determined.</p>
<p>As a living graduate of arguably one of the worst community colleges in the country, I would like to know what one of the best is… if you’d be kind enough to PM me, Take3.</p>
<p>Take3,
Why not attend the Harvard Extension School? It has the best academic flexibility imaginable. And you get to enroll in the classes that interest you before you apply to their degree program.</p>
<p>Yes, I’ve looked at Harvard Extension School. Indeed, it’s not well integrated with Harvard College. You can take Harvard College courses, but only if you apply to do so and are approved first. Even then, there is a limit on the number of Harvard College courses you can take. This lack of integration, by itself, is a problem.</p>
<p>Also, Massachusetts has some goofy laws which prevent me from using my (current) job skills. This is a problem because I’ll probably have to work part-time to pay for living expenses. The only real option would be to travel all the way to New Hampshire just to work part-time. Obviously, I’ll have better things to do than spend two hours a day driving to the next state.</p>
<p>Another reason why I’m leaning towards Penn LPS, in the likely event that Columbia GS isn’t an option, is that it’s close to family. Most of my relatives live within two hours of Penn, with several within just a few miles of campus. Conversely, I don’t know anyone in Massachusetts.</p>
<p>I think that prestige does matter IF you do well in your classes. B’s at a really prestigious institution like say, Hopkins aren’t going to be held against you. If you get C’s though, forget about it–Kiss of Death. People at CC’s with really high GPAs are probably well regarded, but if you have a high GPA at a good institution you are way ahead of those other people. Realistically, a high GPA at a top 25 school is going to put you wayyyy ahead of someone with a good GPA from a CC.</p>
<p>Dreamer121: While I’ll agree that top grades do matter, it all depends on the type of classes you’re taking. CC or other places. For example, a student might have a lower GPA(e.g 3.5 GPA) than someone who has a 3.7+ GPA. However, their level of preparation are different. Nonetheless, I will say that top grades at a top school is a must for those who want to maximize on the opportunities that are available. </p>
<p>Take3: I will say that the Harvard Extension School is what you make of it. If you plan ahead, it could be the best experience out there. I would not recommend anyone to attend HES if they see it as a backdoor to Harvard College because it is not. Through Special Student Status, you are allowed to take up to two classes per semester for one academic school, with the option to renew it for one additional year. Most people who attends the HES ALB Degree Program has already taken most of their academic requirements for their major at other schools prior to admissions. From there, they just take the classes that interests them. Once they go through the process of becoming Special Students at Harvard College, they could actually use the two credit per semester limit to take upper level classes to fullfill their academic major requirements, such as Sociology. As long as you have completed your lower level classes early, the Special Student Status program is a great option for those who know excactly what they want out of the HES experience. While I’ll agree that HES is not HC, it comes very close as far as academic rigor is concerned. Also, the majority of the people who attends HES are only there to take a class or two. Only a few apply to their degree programs. And from there, a small number of student actually finish their degree requirements. And it’s not because they can’t do the work. It mainly falls upon job responsibilitis or family obilgations, as well as the current economic situation right now. Cash is very tight from some of them, meaning they can’t afford to pay for the classes. I hope that this insight helps you out.</p>