<p>Okay, so Cornell has like a 50 percent CALS transfer rate, and given my stats I am fairly confident I will get accepted for next year. The question is whether it is is worth it to transfer ot Cornell from Berkeley (I am applying to Stanford as well, but chances are much more grim there: 5%)</p>
<p>i mainly want to transfer because I am not liking how impersonal it is here, and the lack of technology and funding in everything. It's a great school with lots of good professors, but its really a grad school, not a ugrad one. As someone has very rightfully said before, Berkeley takes "the cream of the crop of the second worst public secondary school education in the country" i am an oos. also, a big problem is that I am paying 40k for a good education, but without any of the amenities assocated with private schools that charge the same amount. I mean the resources are several times hard to find and the beaurocracy is pretty bad and stuff. basically, the ugrad experience is not as good as i had hoped. </p>
<p>Cornell is also a very large school, so I guess that is not a big positive. But does it not have a bit more of collegiate/homely feel than Berkeley, I don't actually know. Plus, Cornell has quite a bit more funding so as to pay you for your research, etc. It's premed acceptance rate is substantially higher than Berkeley's. It seem like a pretty cool school, but what do you guys, think, would I be jumping from out of the pot and into the flame, or whatever the expression is for leaving one set of problems only to meet another set?</p>
<p>Being in the wilderness, Cornell probably has more of a homely feel, but you should visit there and see if you like it.</p>
<p>For all the rest of the factors, I think Cornell's a better choice because you're OOS and are paying a large fee for UCB. Even though cornell is large, Berkeley's undergrad is twice the size of Cornell's so that's a large difference, despite what some people say. However large the school is, a private school, especially an Ivy, will always have better living facilities and services for individual students.</p>
<p>If someone's seeking a warm and cozy personal undergrad experience Cornell is not the first school that would leap to my lips. Though it may be an improvement over Berkeley, I can't say.</p>
<p>IF you are a NY resident at least the $$, and transportation logistics, would be an improvement. CALS is also certainly a top academic choice, for many who want what its curriculum provides.</p>
<p>But otherwise, there's a lot of other schools out there that might more certainly offer you an improvement along the lines you are looking for one.</p>
<p>You should definitely visit if this is something you're seriously considering.</p>
<p>If you want a more intimate experience I suggest Brown and Dartmouth. Grad schools seem to love these two and the academic experience is much more focused on the undergrad (Dartmouth particularly). Also Cornell is likely to be more deflatory than these two which doesn;t help prospective students looking to grad school.</p>
<p>Thanks for the posts guys. Yeah, I undestand all the things you guys are saying, and I think I should visit, I hope I get a chance to visit this winter break. Yes, Ideally Dartmouth or Brown would be good choices, however they have incredbily low transfer rates, like 10 percent I think, maybe even lower, and if I were to get even with those kinds of rates, then maybe I could just get into Stanford, which would be more ideal I would think. </p>
<p>As for why Cornell, over other top schools, mainly based on two things. I don't want to go to a no name school just for the ugrad experience, I mean ugrad exp is important, but I still for my own satisfaction want it to be primarily a research institution, not an LAC. I know Cornell does some pretty good research so thats really good. The second criteria is that it should have a decent chance of me being able to transfer. That rules out schools with really really low chances, but would be good research/ugrad schools such as HYMPS. So then, given those two sets of criteria, the only schools that seemed to come up strongly were: Cornell, Chicago (sort of....its kind of uber nerdy...), possiby UPenn...thats about it I believe</p>
<p>Given what you have said and the fact that Cal is no slouch, I would consider Penn, Northwestern, Cornell, Brown, Stanford, and Dartmouth. Chicago only if you can handle the nerdiness and intensity, Columbia only if you can handle the lack of community and similar problems (bureaucrazy) that you faced at Cal. That's it.</p>
<p>Thanks for the support and information guys. however, slipper, most of those schools are really hard transfer ,excpet for cornell, Chicago, and upenn is not horribly terrible (12-14%). However, the rest are quite tough, so I don't know how much of a shot I would have at those. One semester of 3.87 at Berkeley probably aint gonna cut it</p>
<p>Cornell and Cal are very similar academically. I personally don't feel that you will find the personal attention you crave at ANY large research university given your previous posts. And remember, Ithaca is certainly no Berkeley or San Francisco bay area--you may quickly find yourself bored having already having experienced the bay area. I think you'd be better off looking at liberal arts schools or schools like Dartmouth, Brown or Rice. Also, don't take this the wrong way (I know you have good grades at Cal) but I just don't see you exceling at a place like Cornell (again, given your previous posts). The best students at Cornell, the ones who do really well (and by this I mean both socially and academically) are the go getters who appreciate personal attention, but certainly are not waiting around for anyone to give it to them on a platter--they go out and get what they want. Furthermore, professors are looking for students who actively seek out positions and they are very good at detecting students who are simply looking for lab positions to help them get into med schools or simply for money. There are simply way too many undergrads looking for positions and not nearly enough research openings--professors reserve spots for students whom they feel will not only benefit themselves from undergrad research, but who will actively contribute to their lab groups. And that is what you are, even as an undergrad, you are an active and participating member of a laboratory group at a major research university. Undergraduate reserach is HARD! Professors expect you to work many hours, at night, on weekends etc., usually for NO PAY. What you get is valuable experience and hopefully a very good letter of recommendation when you move on to grad/professional school</p>
<p>I know this may not be what you want to hear, but it is the truth. Professors are in the job of training future scientists and researchers, and they aren't going to sugar coat it for you. They expect you to be very independent, creative and driven.</p>
<p>I don't know...maybe you already knew this, and maybe not. When I did undergrad research at Cornell, there were weeks that with my lab position plus courses, I would work 80-100 hours a week (this was rare, but it happened). 60 hours a week was not unusual at all, perhaps more around average. Again, this was for no pay. In fact, I don't know anyone in my department at Cornell who was paid (though we got course credit). I did, however, make incredible life-long connections with professors in the department who I remain friends with and that I can always count on for a crucial reference, which to me is worth a thousand times more than what any professor could pay me.</p>
<p>Very good post CUgrad. Many people wrongly assume that just because a school is a private elite, undergrads are going to be spoon-fed and hand-held. That may be the case at some private elites, like Brown, Dartmouth, Princeton, the LACs and perhaps Duke and Yale, but at most of the private elites, like Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, MIT, Northwestern, Penn and Stanford, that is definitely not the case. The faculties and administrations at those schools expect students to take a lot of initiative and will only meet them half-way.</p>
<p>CUgrad, I understand what you are saying and believe me, I know it already. I started doing research in my 11th grade at the University of North Texas through a high school program for students to attend college early called the Texas Academy of Mathematics and Science. Please don't preach to me about research, because I know what its like and I have spent many hours myself in the wetlab. I am already doing research here at Berkeley at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory under the deputy director of the Life Science division in Cancer Biology. No one gave me this, I emailed the professor, gave her the papers that I had written already, and got a position. I know how to go get things, trust me, I do.</p>
<p>Maybe I should make it clearer to you what I mean. I visited MIT a little while ago (my gf goes there), you know, one of the schools you say doesn't coddle you, but it DEFINITELY coddles you more than Berkeley. Over there, you have a specific advisor who is assigned to you, they are your ownly advisor and they generally know you personally. They have things like UROP, which guarantees either credit or pay to its ugrad students, I dont believe its too hard to get either. They have lots of advising and lots of amenities to really help the student out. They don't do it for you, but it defiinitely feels as if they TRY to help you. Now this is not true at Berkeley, Berkley they don't give a **** if you left the next day. Also, I am paying 40k dollars a year here, and of course since its public its always got LOTS of problems involving funding so its hard to provide many amenities at all for its students. Foi rexample, at MIT, their rooms were nicer, they had many more study areas, more computer facilities, their libararies are opoen all night, I mean there all these things add up. </p>
<p>So you see, its not that I don't want to go claim things. Its sorta like this, I go to the store and give a dollar, I get a chocolate bar, my gf goes to the same store, gives the same money, and gets a house. Now I exagerate, and granted MIT is an amazing school and I'm not saying that I want the exact same as her, or that I could even get the exact same as her. All I am saying is that I would like to get more for my money without sacrificing my academics. Do you understand better now?</p>
<p>No, I don't understand any better--though I do apologize for preaching, I've just seen to many students like the ones I described in my above post. Look, bottom line is, ask any professor at MIT or Berkeley about research positions for undergrads at either school and they'll tell you that they are the same. If I understand correctly, your original posts pertained to undergraduate research, yes?</p>
<p>It sounds like you seriously have one of the best possible undergraduate positions at LLL, why would you give this up? Honestly, I just don't see what you'll gain by transferring, but I certainly do see what you'll be giving up. And the whole "Berkeley is underfunded" argument is just complete Bulls**t when it comes to research. Even Sakky, who I rarely side with, will agree with me that Berkeley research facilities are top-notch. Berkeley couldn't compete with schools like MIT if they let their research areas go by the wayside. </p>
<p>I don't know...to me your argument for transferring seems a bit transparent. I see no real valid reason to transfer from Berkeley except for maybe a prestige issue or if you absolutely hated the Bay Area as a place to live. I just don't think transferring will solve your issues. Honestly, as a transfer student myself, transferring is a good idea only for those students who really, really hate where they are (or are transferring from a junior college). It's honestly not worth the effort to set up new social networks, get settled in a new city, find another lab position as good as the one it sounds like you have...I could go on, but I think you get the picture.</p>
<p>My advice...unless you really hate berkeley is to stay there, persevere, get into a kick ass grad school, and thumb your nose at all those ivy league kids who needed to have a personal advisor approve their classes for them before registering (like, the one benefit I had with an advisor at Cornell--it was actually more of a hassle).</p>
<p>If you would like a good combination of support for undergraduate research and personal attention I would highly recommend Dartmouth. I know it'll be harder to transfer but it's worth a shot. :) I honestly don't think that Cornell will "fix" things for you but it's imperative that you visit and get a feel for the campus before making any final decisions about transferring.</p>
<p>I think the OP has gotten his just deserts. He picked Cal, a very prestigious school but one that is not known for attention to undergrads. And as an OOS student he is paying $40K or more a year, a sum that would pay the tuition practically anywhere in the country. So why was Cal chosen over some other school that provides a better experience at that price? My answer is it must have been prestige. And now the OP is looking to make the same decision with the same criteria but hope for better results. He is looking for a household-name elite school that has a better environment. </p>
<p>So is Cornell better? I dunno. But any OOS student who could get into Cal could get into most other colleges in this country. Given that he chose Cal I think it is the decision-making process that is flawed here, not the school.</p>
<p>You're being more than a little unfair in leaping to those kinds of conclusions based on what's posted here. The transfer process exists for a reason - colleges know students don't neccessarily make the right choice the first time around, and that's ok, even if it was the result of a 'flawed decision-making process.'</p>
<p>My advice: Apply to Dartmouth, Brown, and Stanford and hope for the best. A 3.87 is nothing to scoff at, worst case you lose 200 bucks, best case you get to experience 3 years at a great school that is a better fit.</p>
<p>despite what CU grad said, I get paid to do research here at Cornell regardless if it's my own research or if it was for a professor. </p>
<p>also, a good friend of mine was just given a $5,000 grant to do research over in london for 8 weeks in the spring. </p>
<p>also, unlike CUgrad, my reserach schedule is pretty relaxed. I work whenever I want for how long I want. My professor is really chill, though. Great guy! The stuff I analyzed was recently on some CNN show and was also in a few newspapers (boston globe was one of them).</p>