Hey guys. So I’ve been researching schools recently and was wondering if you could tell me how the two of them compare in terms of acadmic quality/prestige/grad school opportunities/difficulty etc.? To clarify I would be considered OOS for Cal. So they seem pretty similar on paper in terms of their acceptance rates and average SATs etc, given that Berkeley decided to become etc. selective in 2016. I know Cornell’s Ivy league and stuff but Berkeley seems pretty similar so I’m confused(what up username reference), I just figured it would be helpful to have more opinions. PS, pls don’t h8 m8s.
The 2 seem similar academically and prestige-wise. Personally, I would not want to pay for out of state tuition for a state school, even if it is Cal. You’d be paying triple the tuition compared to most CA residents. Also, the environments of the 2 are quite different. You should visit both, if you can, to see which you like best. Cal is in a city setting with great restaurants, tons to do, yet also has more crime and traffic. Cornell is in an isolated, yet beautiful area with more extreme weather, yet it feels safe with mostly college students. When you have schools that are comparable academically, think about the location, climate, student body, etc. I think you can’t really get a feel for a place unless you visit. Something may look great on paper, but you want to be comfortable there.
Berkeley is a state school. Its funding has been impacted by CA state finance. I personally wouldn’t pay for OOS tuition for any state schools.
@oldfort I guess that makes sense. However tbh I’m more interested in the personalities/qualities of the people around me. If the state school factor bothered me I wouldn’t even consider applying.
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@Renomamma thanks for the information!
I graduated from Cornell but have a daughter at Berkeley. Berkeley is a world renowned university. Cornell is a minor ivy. Both are good, but in my experience, reputation wise, Berkeley is head and shoulders above Cornell. You can’t beat it for weather. Cornell in upstate NY, has mostly cloudy days, is very gloomy except for summer and has harsh winters. Both can be big and impersonal…You have to find your niche and social group in both. But if it were me–I’d set my GPS for Berkeley, hands-down.
@ preppedparent - By “head and shoulders above” do you mean the weather or do you mean academics? Many people love the snow, greenery, and beauty of Ithaca. I lived in Berkeley for 3 years and had my car broken into twice, and my BIL was held up at gunpoint there. So, there’s that too.
I was under the impression they were similar academically.
I’ll add to this that the biggest drawback of Cornell for us is the transportation. It’s not close to much of anything and it’s a full day of travel if you’re from the western US. Cal is closer to major airports.
But…since OP was asking mainly about academics, I believe they’re pretty equal.
For the sciences Berkeley has a better faculty. However it is large compared to Cornell. Both schools admit less than 20% and it is harder for OOS at Berkeley to get in. As far as “difficulty” goes they are the same.
Do not limit yourself to these 2 schools and have backups. Everyone should apply to that local state college that all your friends are going to.
Disagree with above. It’s easier to get into any UC from OOS because they get more $$$ from OOS students. They take far more OOS than they used to for that reason. I think it irritates many CA residents. Stats on OOS students are often lower than CA residents.
That said, agree that OP should cast their net far and wide. Apply to many schools, both reaches and safeties. There’s plenty of time for the actual decision.
@preppedparent @Remomamma thank you! That’s useful info! @GnimlnTx haha thank you. Ofcourse I’m going to apply to much more selective schools because I’m pretty sure getting into either Engineering college would be pretty hard!
I think Berkeley is harder to get into OOS now because of all the publicity around the tuition problems. Its English and Engineering and Computer Science programs are ranked with Harvard and Yale. Cornell doesn’t have those rankings. Also, in other world rankings of top universities, Berkeley makes the list, Cornell does not. Berkeley’s business school also outranks Cornell’s.
Well, this is getting silly. Harvard and Yale are not known for engineering or CS, so I’m not sure why you brought that into the picture @preppedparent . In fact, both Berkeley and Cornell rank far above Harvard and Yale in those 2 areas. For example US News & World Report engineering ranks: Cal #3, Cornell #9, Harvard #24, and Yale #38. No doubt, Berkeley is highly regarded and ranked. But it’s splitting hairs when you are talking about schools in the top 20. And, yes, Cornell makes the world rankings as #18 (Berkeley #13). Not a huge difference. Geez.
And here are a few links about business school rankings, since you brought it up:
http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-best-undergrad-business-schools/
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/business-overall
Anything in the top 20 or so is considered prestigious. That all said, I would hope students don’t pick schools based solely on rankings - especially amongst highly regarded institutions - because there are many other factors that come into play for individual happiness and success. And we don’t know OP’s intended major, which could have an impact on his/her decision as well. Also, OP, when you look at Parchment comparisons of which schools students choose when presented with the options, there is a statistically insignifant difference between Berkeley and Cornell, slightly weighted towards Berkeley, but then it’s cheaper for CA residents which comprise most of their population. It’s a fun tool; check it out.
http://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?id=342
Well stated @Renomamma. They’re both good schools and good choices. There’s more to a school than its ranking. Poster should choose based on your own unique needs and intended major etc. I think I get so enthusiastic about Cal because as a large public university it often takes a beating in the rankings against private universities and ivies.
I have experience of both schools. They are both awesome! of course I would say that (biased). The environment (rural/urban, weather, cultural diversity, etc) could not be more different but there are surprising similarities and parallels between the academics of the two campuses. Particularly in the engineering departments, you will see a lot of exchange between Berkeley and Cornell…look at the faculty pages to see where the engineering graduate students are coming from (undergraduate degree) and you will see what I mean. The biology departments also have a lot of overlap, academically. I can see why they are comparable options for you, academically speaking. Be aware that getting to the airport in Ithaca is hard, sure, but it’s not all that easy getting to Oakland airport or SFO either if you don’t have a car. Especially while carrying a lot of stuff.
It’s actually super easy to get from the Oakland Airport to Berkeley if you don’t have a car – just hop on BART at the airport and hop off at the Downtown (Berkeley) station, a block away from campus. I do agree that BART might be a challenge if you have more than a couple of suitcases though.
Berkeley and Cornell are both fantastic schools, and I agree with what others have said about the differences in ranking being negligible- once you are in the top 15-20, employers don’t pick by numbers anymore. That being said, there are some key differences between the schools in terms of their personality:
Location and weather: Berkeley is a very vibrant campus, and the sun shines year-round. You will find all kinds of different people- from small families to Cal students. It’s in the silicon valley, where technology innovations are at its peak. Meanwhile Ithaca, where Cornell is, may be isolated and cold, but it is beautiful, with gorges running through campus and lakes and trees, etc. Many say that the “isolation” and weather brings Cornell students together and becomes something to bond over. Also, Ithaca has a unique, very liberal personality to it too.
Class Sizes: Cal has huge class sizes, often up to senior year, when it becomes smaller. Cornell will also have big classes for intro subjects, but the classes get smaller and more personalized sooner is what I have heard.
Opportunities Both Berkeley and Cornell definitely have thousands of opportunities for students. The only difference is that at Berkeley, you have to put in a lot of your own self-guided effort to get to these opportunities whereas at Cornell, the opportunities will be a bit more accessible and there will be more help to get to them from the university- like any other private university.
Diversity While both schools are diverse, Berkeley definitely has many local students from California whereas Cornell tries to get students evenly from across the country and the world- its a whole new level of diversity, you could say. A pretty big percentage of Cornell students are international.
So you really cannot go wrong with either choice, but if you get into both and it ends up being the same tuition because you are OOS, I’d say Cornell is probably a good choice just because of great resources and access to those resources. Also consider the importance of stepping out of your comfort zone- and decide which place would allow you to do that more.
Both Berkeley and Cornell are great! Visit both, apply to both if you like them, and see what happens!
I attended Cornell in the days of dinosaurs. My son applied to both this year, and he will be starting at Cornell this August. He was denied by Berkeley as an OOS student. He applied to both because of their strong engineering programs, although, ironically, he was more interested in Cornell. So, it worked out well for him.
While Berkeley is 100% a state school, Cornell actually has a few components that are also state schools (ILR, Human Ecology, CALS) So, Cornell has a healthy percentage of kids from NY, but Berkeley has a much higher percentage of kids from CA. (About 66% of Berkeley students are from CA.).
Be aware that it is more difficult to get into Berkeley from OOS and that Berkeley does not offer financial aid to OOS students. According to one article I just read , Berkeley accepted 12.9% of OOS applicants this year, as opposed to 18.3% of instate applicants. I am not sure how acceptances into specific majors broke out, but I know it can be quite competitive to get into some of the popular tech majors. The average SAT/ACT scores published for the whole university are usually lower than those expected of applicants into tech majors.
My son just registered for Cornell fall courses this week and got into every class he wanted at the exact times he wanted. On the other hand, I have heard from many students and friends in CA that getting into classes you want/need at the UC schools can be trying. The biggest complaint we hear from friends in CA is that it can be hard to graduate within four years, especially in engineering where there are a lot of required courses.
We were also very impressed with Cornell’s thorough online course registration system this week. My son was able to easily find information about course requirements/options and register by himself at home, without help from me or a counselor. He also found the accepted student days online scheduling system in April to be interactive and informative.
We have lived in CA in the past and my older son attended a private college in CA. We all love CA, and certainly the CA weather and close proximity to large cities and potential employers are big pluses for Berkeley, especially if you would like to live and work in CA after college. But, my younger son seemed more interested in trying the traditional ivy league cold weather thing, probably just to prove he can do it, as he has never lived in the northeast. Cornell’s beautiful campus and views captivated us both. We like that all the freshmen live together on North Campus. And the new buildings on the engineering quad are quite impressive and socially inviting. We saw lots of engineering kids hanging out together and studying in groups. He also appreciated the ability to easily take courses in all of the different colleges at Cornell, as he is interested in a number of academic areas outside of engineering.
Best wishes to you in your future decisions! I don’t see a “prestige” difference between these schools. Go to a college that suits YOU best. If you can, visit colleges before you apply, and then revisit the colleges you are accepted to, if you are undecided at that point. Talk to as many kids and adults on the campuses as you can, in addition to just the ones you meet on the admissions tours. Make your own informed decisions. Do not rely merely on rankings and the opinions of people you don’t know on this website, like me!
@GuitarANDMe – excellent summary.
While I agree that Cornell enrolls students from across the US and the world, the international population is not as high as you might think.
As of last fall, 10.1% of the undergrads were international students but 47.7% of grad students were international, with 29% of professional students. Overall, 21% of students on campus are international, but the U/G enrollment is significantly lower.
@MOMANDBOYSTWO is correct about the NY influence. 26% of all students are from NY state.
My son was very taken with Berkeley’s weather and of course, the strength of their CS dept, but after finding himself unable to find a seat in a large math lecture on a Friday afternoon, he has decided that Berkeley may be a grad school option. Ithaca’s weather is a strike against Cornell for this same boy, but the weather is really no worse than most of New England.
The only way for Berkeley to make up for lack of funding from state is by admitting more OOS students.
We visited Berkeley when my kid was looking at colleges. It was a beautiful campus, but I did notice it was a bit run down (signs were missing letters, building facade was dirty). It was very different when we arrived at the Stanford campus. It was perfectly manicured. It’s the same with Cornell. There is a lot of new constructions on campus. The reason students at Cornell have no problem in getting into most classes is because many courses are offered at multiple schools within Cornell (Stats is probably offered at A&S, Engineering, Hotel, AEM). If you are in state at CA then Berkeley is a great choice, but if you are OOS and paying similar price for Cornell, why wouldn’t you go to school that’s more financially independent and solid.