It seems that you very much want to transfer out of Yale and in my opinion you should. It doesn’t seem that what folks are saying on this thread will convince you that Yale is not the name you want on your degree. You don’t enjoy being there or at least you didn’t enjoy being there for your first year. Frankly, it’s not unusual for some students to dislike their freshman year. I don’t think you’re obligated to stay in a situation you dislike even if that situation is Yale. I do think it will be an added problematic layer for you to transfer to H or P. You would basically do your first two years at Yale but then get a Harvard degree? I foresee that as being frowned on by HYP admissions teams and those panels that decide these things. I don’t think it gives an advantage and on the contrary, it’s likely more of a disadvantage. It sounds like there are some good educational options (T10 schools) though for the course and focus you want. So if you seek to transfer it would be important to include applying to those other suggested schools. It’s OK that Yale’s not for you. But obviously solely tossing your eggs in the Harvard basket will likely bring a disappointing result. Good luck with it all.
@transferthrow555 For highly quantitative jobs in a quant fund or a bank, they’ll closely look at your qualifications and test you verbally and in writing. Pedigree alone won’t get you very far, unlike in IB. There’re more people from Harvard than Yale because there happen to be more qualified candidates at Harvard in those areas.
@apparently22 Thanks. Just a quick question, I know you mentioned the fact that applying as junior would be an issue. With this, would I have had a better shot at transferring last year? I know there are plenty of schools like Uchicago, NYU, MIT, etc that would also fit my interest, but honesty the only school that I see as a logical step up from my current situation is Harvard. This isn’t based on prestige, but more on the areas I highlighted in my other comments.
Wharton isn’t a powerhouse in those highly quantitative jobs OP seeks.
@1NJParent Well like you said, Harvard has more qualified students in the area. That statement can’t be ignored. They come out more prepared as a byproduct of the opportunities they have around them. I know prestige doesn’t mean much in quant finance, but coming out of Harvard, I really do think I would be substantially more qualified
My impression is that OP is hung up on prestige; otherwise, UChicago & Brown would be at the top of his list of target schools.
P.S. Carnegie Mellon University (CMU) ?
No, the reason is mostly because Harvard has more qualified STEM students than Yale to begin with (e.g. more IMO medalists).
Harvard doesn’t accept sophomore transfers (unless they’ve changed their policy the last 3 years). MIT does, however. I think that’s why you see CC transfers who have completed AAs and lower-level course work or students of other universities that are ready to concentrate in something their school simply doesn’t have. It’s a “moving up” not a perceived lateral. Regardless of how the students view their Ivy rivalries with each other (HYP) the institutions know or accept that they are peer institutions and you really do not see the piracy of each others’ students. Like in the admissions process if one applied REA to both (which one is not allowed) or accepted a place to both by that May 1 date (which one is not allowed) that student, with no doubt at all, would lose both options. Heck, the 8 Ivys have an agreement about not pirating each other’s recruited athletes which can be the norm in other leagues!
@apparently22 Harvard does accept rising juniors as transfers. Their officially policy is that a student must complete two years at Harvard. I just looked at an article published by the Crimson talking about transfer students. They cited students that came from West Point, UPenn M&T (Wharton/ SEAS), Wake Forest, and U of Oxford. The one that stood out to me was the UPenn M&T transfer. I would argue UPenn, specifically M&T would be comparable to Harvard, yet they where able to transfer (they where class of '19). While it is very very rare to transfer, I think many are making it out to be impossible. Very unlikely, but not impossible.
Article: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/2/4/transfer-students/
OP: Either Yale will work for you or it won’t. Based on your original posts, you do not fit in socially or with respect to your “beliefs” (conservative?).
If so, no need to be miserable trying to hang on to prestige.
Apply to Harvard & see what happens, but be realistic & apply elsewhere.
Would CMU work for you ?
P.S. Important to understand that Yale has a reputation for grade inflation, so you might get clobbered at a school like the University of Chicago.
OP, as @blossom has alluded to, the definition of Wall Street quants is changing. The new hires tend to be in data sciences than in stochastic calculus, for example. You may want to focus your energy in something like Citadel’s Data Open Championships. It’s open to all undergrad and graduate students:
Not sure, but I think that a high level tech officer at Citadel just has a BS in CS from SUNY-Binghamtom.
Also noticed a few MBAs in key leadership positions (Northwestern & Chicago, if I recall correctly).
Of course, they accept those transferring for their junior year. Your last question directed to me asked if I thought you stood a better chance had you tried to transfer for this year meaning after freshmen year as a rising sophomore. My statement is that Harvard does not accept transfers of rising sophomores. MIT, does.
Applying as a junior is the only way one can transfer.
@apparently22 It’s the other way around. MIT only allows rising junior transfer. Harvard allows both rising sophomores or rising juniors.
@Publisher Absolutely there is people from this school, but they’re the minority. The simple fact is that schools like Harvard and MIT have more people in those roles, and that is an advantage. If you don’t believe me, I completely understand, but I’ve spoken with the HF manager at the place I intended at, and he said verbatim that Yale is nowhere near the caliber of Harvard or MIT when it comes to the type of finance I’m interested in.
@1NJParent I agree that the definition of what a quant should be is constantly evolving. But arguing that coming out a physics major as opposed to a firm major in financial engineering is better. Quant finance, from what I’ve learned from speaking with quants, is a lot harder to just “pick up” like traditional finance. That compounded with the fact that I would like to pursue a masters in computational finance makes an FE all that much more attractive.
From scrolling through prior transfers threads from other users, I always found that they divulge into a discussion for the reason of a transfer, often citing it’s impossible. I’ve looked at the Crimson articles about transfers, and I’ve seen transfers from UPenn Wharton, Johns Hopkins, UT Austin, and Georgetown Business School. Sure all these schools may have something that Harvard doesn’t offer since most of these students where in specialized programs (like business or Penn M&T), but an internal transfer is always pretty easy considering the transfer would be from a more selective program (Wharton) to the least selective one (UPenn CAS). The reason this transfer gave was also very weak and was something along the lines of “The Wharton pre-professional culture inhibited the Jazz Scene at Penn.” All that sounds like a pretty egregious reason to transfers since any jazz club or society is available at Penn. Harvard isn’t some kind of jazz mecca.
If people have transferred from those schools to Harvard, I don’t see why my reason isn’t valid. It might be hard, but this forum makes it seem like it’s impossible. I came here to hear stories like the one’s from the Crimson in order to learn what others have done to successfully transfer to Harvard from other elite schools.
I know the reason for a transfer is a valid discussion, but it just isn’t constructive to do it on here considering I have essentially made up my mind that I’m going to attempt it next year.
The good news for the OP is that he/she has set up a completely binary system. Either he/she will get into Harvard or not; either he/she will be happier at Harvard than at Yale or not; either he/she will get the coveted job in quant finance or not.
No gray area at all, no room for ambiguity. Yes, quant finance is harder to pick up than regular finance- but to argue that a physics major from MIT is going to have difficulty figuring it out at a top firm, where he or she is surrounded by people to train and mentor is a ludicrous statement. You have young people ever year graduating from MIT, CMU, Cal Tech who are faced with deciding whether to go to JPL or one of the top quant firms… and believe me, NASA isn’t hiring people who majored in quant finance.
Good luck. And learn to proof-read…
@blossom Congratulations, you can proofread. I really don’t know why you’re acting as if an online post is a measure of my writing capacity. Sorry I have more important things to do than spend time proofreading a comment on CC. But in all honesty, I don’t know why you feel the need to nit pick that.
I don’t ever recall expressing an interest in working in NASA’s JPL, or anything related to that. The post was pretty clear that quant finance is the area I would like to work in. To say that there is no gray area is a complete generalization of my goals. What’s wrong with electing a career of choice when you know with almost complete certainty that it is something you want to do.
If you had even taken the time to understand where I coming from instead of nitpicking minuscule things from my post, you would have realized that I am not interested in MIT. CalTech, or CMU, because I have come to like Yale and Harvard’s liberal arts approach to STEM. MIT may have good humanities, but the impact they have on the experience there is nowhere near that of Harvard. The same goes for Caltech and CMU.
I don’t know why you have superiority complex where you feel the need to denigrate other people’s goal. If I want to transfer, I am going to do it. There is no need to give a million reasons as to why I am going to fail. I am not automatically drawn to Harvard for it’s prestige, so to assume that’s the reason I’m transferring is very misinformed. Do you know me? Do you know what I want to do in life? Do you know how I would like to spend my college years. The answers to all those questions is no.
Please don’t try and dissect my reason for transferring, or my supposed marginal benefits of transferring. I only posted this to gain some insight into the process; not to be accused of prestige hounding. Ultimatley, I know my reason as to why I want to transfer and have to need to share it with an online stranger.
Thanks! And please stop thinking you’re the gatekeeper for all things finance…
What do you want from people on this board at this point? You’ve made up your mind and you’ve posted it publicly.
OP: I have done a few hours of research based on your concerns, but I believe that it would be useless for me to share my results as you are not open to advice or suggestions to others.
Additionally, you seem to misunderstand some postings as I have no idea why you referenced me in your post #34 above.
Apply to Harvard. My advice given above was to consider other options as well. I suggested Chicago & CMU and a special program at Northwestern. Brown has an excellent rep for math, but is not big with hedge funds.
It may help if you can specify with particularity what courses you are seeking.
Quantitative Finance ?
Computational Finance ?
Financial Engineering ?
Mathematics of Finance ?
Is your goal to inform / formulate trading strategies ?
Derivatives ?
Fixed income ?
Or any specific intersts ?
Are you aware that several hedge funds have their own training academies ?
Why not CMU ?
OP: I will reread your posts in this thread to see if I have overlooked some specific information shared by you. My concern is that you really do not understand the steps to get where you may want to be. For example, the first key is to get an internship prior to graduation. Many have PhDs & Masters degrees to get where you may want to be.
P.S. I am a bit shy to reveal the schools that would help you to get where you want to go as you cannot see beyond Harvard. While I encourage you to apply to Harvard, I also encourage you to apply to additional schools not named Harvard. Seems important in light of your goals and in light of your dissatisfaction with the academic & social life at Yale–which I do understand.