I am currently an undergraduate at the University of Southern California (I just started this year). Although I was admitted to Notre Dame last year during early action, I chose to come to USC instead mostly because of my half-tuition (Presidential) scholarship here. Unfortunately, the school is not totally what I expected it to be.
For me, it just seems that USC is too large of a school. I didn’t join Greek life (and would not plan on doing so in future semesters) so I feel left out from much of the social scene here. In addition, coming from a small town in Nevada to Los Angeles has been a a bit of a stressful cultural adjustment for me (though I do love the amazing weather and all of the cultural opportunities that come with living in a big city).
Just last week, I found out that I would be able to transfer to Notre Dame as a second semester freshman. My brother is a senior there and I already know quite a few people. I really like the fact that Notre Dame does not have Greek life, and that the residence halls are instead the biggest part of social life. In addition, I feel that ND undergraduates have better access to university academic resources, as USC can sometimes be overwhelmed by the graduate population as well as the sheer number of undergraduates on campus. One drawback is that ND would be more expensive.
I am currently deciding whether I should stay at USC or leave and attend Notre Dame. The factors holding me back from doing so are Notre Dame’s location (I am comfortable with the West Coast, and like I said, being in LA has been a lot of fun), as well as South Bend’s cold and dreary winters (LA weather was a huge selling point for me last year). Does anyone have any advice for me? Do the academic and social advantages of Notre Dame (at least in my opinion) make up for the difference in weather and location?
You obviously have someone close to talk to their experience with ND, so that is great. Since he is a senior, he would only be around for a semester and living his own life there, so him being there is more of a source of info, not an influence on going.
I am not sure why you feel any other school will have more social opportunities. After experiencing sending several kids off to college, I have learned that a student’s overall experience at college is determined way more by the student’s action (or inaction) than the school. Have you done what you can to be involved at USC or did you just sorta give up joining anything after those first couple weeks? Since USC is only 20 something percent greek, that is not the only social thing to do there. I have several attending/attended USC and none of them did anything Greek, and their social lives were as different as each of them. For some kids, the social thing doesn’t kick in right away and evolves over time - talking over the first year or two - for others, they join a zillion things from day 1 and seem to have found globs of friends.
I wouldn’t want to influence such a big decision, and as much as I am a fan of USC, it isn’t for everyone, so I don’t try to sell it or promote it - just offer views. Point is - what I hear needs to be fixed at USC, needs to be fixed by you, not the school. The opportunities are there, you just aren’t using them or going after them. ND is not going to be a magical social land for you if you don’t put it out there and get into something. So whichever school you choose in the end, find things you want to do and get involved in. Go into your major’s department office and ask if there are any groups you can join, go to your dorms activities/dinners. Get a PT job, find clubs that do fun things or purposeful things that interest you. The academic resources are there, no question. You are blaming Greek life for social issues and graduate students for using resources. What I am hearing is excuses. Every school has things to work around, a successful college student at any school makes it work for them.
I say this a lot, but looking forward in life, where do you want to say you graduated from? Whichever it is, make things happen, they won’t happen for you.
@CADREAMIN This is great advice. The college experience is of course only as good as you choose to make it, and USC definitely does have some great opportunities (I never suggested otherwise).
As for the school not needing to change, this is false. USC is definitely not perfect, and in my opinion, the university should really just begin to phase out Greek life altogether. The administration has already decided to only allow spring rush (fall rush will no longer be happening) and tailgating on the row won’t be allowed for the Oregon State game this weekend, which I believe is a step in the right direction. Even though Greek-affiliated students represent only a little more than 20 percent of our population, this minority is very prominent, very vocal, and quite frankly, just a little bit irritating. The Greek system fosters a toxic culture of exclusivity, and from my point of view, seems to encourage sexual assault and sexism. I struggle with the fact that my family is paying tuition to an institution that allows these Greek organizations to not only exist, but to dominate our social scene and to really be fundamental to our identity as a university.
And yes, like I said, there are fantastic opportunities here, and being close to Los Angeles presents even greater opportunity. But at a school with over 40 thousand students, there really are only so many resources to go around. As one example, my second major is in Italian, and this department is ridiculously underfunded compared to programs in the School of Cinematic Arts and in Viterbi.
Oh gosh, I wasn’t implying USC is perfect, far from it. I initially had a love/hate thing going on with USC, but I grew to love it, but sure, there are issues anywhere. I’m just suggesting if you decide to stay, you have to work around the imperfections. The Greek thing, honestly, I just don’t get why it bugs you so much (but I do admire your passionate stands). Are you in the Greek oriented dorm? That could be horrible for those not into it for sure. For what it’s worth, I think there is a whole lot wrong with the Greek system at every college (hello Penn State and many more). Frankly, I would never endorse mine going Greek, but they didn’t pay it any attention and had vibrant social lives and made life long friends. It truly had no impact on their time at USC. It sounds like you know more about it in a month than mine did after four years there. I wish you could shut that off from your radar. You may buy a house some day next to a neighbor you don’t care for. You either have to sell your house, tolerate them, or disregard them. If you think the environment around you is too disruptive to your time there, then maybe selling (transferring) is a good idea.
In terms of majors, ya it’s pretty safe to say that Italian is not going to have the resources of the #1 film school and #11th ranked engineering school in the country. My 4th to college at USC is in two Dornsife majors that aren’t extremely popular and have very small departments, plus a language minor. I assume none of those are nearly as funded as the “big majors.” But she has already made more opportunities than her siblings in bigger majors and has only been there a month.
You will also find that when you make changes in life - whether it is leaving a job, a neighborhood, a school, or a relationship - humans tend to justify it by only seeing the negative within their current situation, and blind themselves to the positive. The “finding every flaw and everything sucks here” mindset makes it easier to make any change. So make sure you are open to seeing both sides to make the most informed decision. And yes, change may be the right answer.
You have to decide if you can work within and around the flaws you feel USC has, and determine if you can really succeed the way you want to at this school. Decide if the environment is too distracting for you and if the school has what you want it to have. I am am not a fan of giving strong opinions and am truly not advocating one or the other in any way - just trying to give you things to think about. I sincerely wish you the best in your decision- it’s a biggie!
As the father of two daughters, I of course also share your concern about… “The Greek system fosters a toxic culture of exclusivity, and from my point of view, seems to encourage sexual assault and sexism.” My daughters are both at USC (freshman and senior), but they are not really active in the Greek life at USC. They attend parties on the row periodically, but always in a group, and they of course look out for one another. But if that is really one of your chief concerns… you may want to watch the documentary film “The Hunting Ground”, originally produced in concert with CNN and available on Netflix and other places. It details how this issue is widespread & at nearly every college and university nationwide and features a special segment on Notre Dame itself… where the conclusion drawn was that the administration, public safety department and athletic department all have routinely covered up sexual assaults involving student athletes. I am not saying that Notre Dame is necessarily worse than USC or any other college on this front, as I do not have the info to support such… but you should not necessarily cast innuendo about that topic in the direction of USC while assuming that Norte Dame is de facto immune from such because of the Greek life differential. As that documentary contends, the reality is quite the contrary. Yes… USC is also mentioned… along with 100s of other schools - including nearly every top-25 ranked school in the nation, including the Ivies. It is indeed a serious issue & far too widespread - even among colleges with no fraternities.
My girls love USC, but their social life also involves a # of non-USC activities as well… including concerts, plays, premieres, day/night trips to Santa Monica, The Grove, amusement parks, Hollywood, Malibu, DTLA, Venice Beach, etc. As @CADREAMIN suggests, your overall college experience will primarily be driven by you and your efforts. If you are male and not in a fraternity and thus cannot go to fraternity parties, I can see how that could be annoying. But there is so much more to USC and the experience of attending college in L.A. than just a few buildings on The Row. But… if USC is not right for you, maybe transferring is the solution. I only have one friend who attended Notre Dame. Now, as an alum, he speaks favorably of it. But I recall him complaining relentless about it and its environment, climate, etc while he was there. So choose wisely. You only get one chance at your college experience.
@DarylHall You’re getting swamped by USC parents here, but here’s my advice: Look at the academics. You have enough experience via your brother to know exactly what you’re getting into at ND. You know USC first hand.
Academically, the difference between the schools will be very specific to what you are studying (or what you think you want to study) the profs you want to take with etc. In fact, depending on what you are interested in, you might have a very good idea of the exact courses you want to take. And it might even be possible to lay out the exact classes, or some of them, and even select professors who are the leading lights in their fields (either at USC or ND): who do you want to learn FROM?
If you are a Presidential scholar you obviously had an exceptional HS record. College, theoretically is about learning things in great depth. I would encourage you to approach this from the academic side. My guess is friendships will come at either place. But you only get a limited amount of time to spend with professors in a college environment. What do you want to LEARN and who do you want to learn it from and with?
@DarylHall
I would discuss this with your parents as ND will be more expensive. However it seems as though you truly hate the choice you made, and feel as though USC is too big which is highly understandable. If ND would truly be better for your emotional and mental health, then you already made your decision.
Talk to your family, they know you best. You can get a great education at both schools, but your experience will be very different beyond just the weather. I am a pro-USC parent of a current student, but would never claim that it’s perfect. More importantly, it doesn’t sound perfect for you if you are spending time wishing you were at another school. Not to mention your strong opposition to the Greek system, even though 80% of undergrads do not participate. My D doesn’t love it all the time but she has always known it was the right place for her, and you clearly don’t have that feeling. Just research the Italian dept. at ND first - it would be frustrating to find out after you transfer that it isn’t any better than USC’s. (Most likely it is because so many students study in Rome, but it’s still a good idea to check.)
Just as a point of clarification, the 40k number includes the entire student population. Undergrads number 18,500, 3,000 of whom are freshmen.
Best of luck, and consider yourself incredibly blessed that you are in a position where you can choose between two amazing institutions. Let us know what you decide!
I will say after reading my own comments again, USC is not even nearly as bad as I’ve made it sound. It has a huge number of advantages, which is why I was so attracted to it to begin with.
That being said, I’m going to continue to reevaluate, weigh the different factors, and discuss with my family over the next couple weeks. I do feel very lucky to be in the position that I am!!
That’s a great attitude. You really can’t “lose” with either school. Both have exceptional education and social opportunities. The only question is which is best for you and your family.
I’ll offer similar advice but from a different perspective. I have no ties to USC unless you consider that we visited and my D was accepted as a Spring admit but chose a better option.
I went to a large university with prominent Greek culture. 25,000 undergrad so slightly larger but in the range of USC. Football was also king. I never attended a Greek party and had disdain for what we considered the “buy a friend” system. There tension at times between Greeks and independents but that was really the fringe. Throug my major, I became friends with several people who were Greek and it was no big deal.
I think the first semester of college often brings buyers remorse, particularly at a larger university. It just takes longer to find your place. I had buyers remorse until the middle of my second semester. In the end, it was a great experience. It’s worth considering that it may be tougher to break into friend groups in the Spring at ND.
