<p>Posting articles without explaining their relevance and without response to the opposing arguments presented doesn't mean much at all. Try again.</p>
<p>This is one of the saddest things I've ever seen.</p>
<p>Sv3a:</p>
<p>I was not going to respond to your opposing arguments as I didnt think it would be a productive exercise. Honestly, Im more interested in sharing information about this issue and trying to have an intelligent conversation, than trying to convince die hard supporters of anything. It doesnt bother me that you support an affirmative action policy for community college transfer students. Im not sure that a majority of Virginians would agree with that view.</p>
<p>Since you want me to respond, I will say that it is hardly surprising that John Casteen III publicly supports the guaranteed transfer policy as he accepted it in return for more autonomy in other areas. In addition, he signed the agreement with VCCS. I hardly expect him to speak negatively about a deal he made with certain Virginia politicians. Roberts, the transfer dean, works for Casteen and probably had a major role in negotiating the agreement with VCCS; therefore, I would also find it surprising if he did not publicly support the guaranteed admissions policy. I cannot think of any reason why Glenn DuBois, chancellor of VCCS, would not support the transfer policy. I quoted Blackburn because he seemed to provide a little candor along with the spin one would expect from someone in his position.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"In the past, many VCCS transfer applicants have been denied admission because they lack the necessary requirements determined by the College." </p>
<p>So it looks like UVA did have the capacity to admit more VCCS students than it currently has, many of them being admittable students except for the fact that they didn't take a foreign language or what not, and by guaranteeing admissions this program lays out what is needed to get into UVA for such people.
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</p>
<p>I dont think your conclusion necessarily follows from the quote. There may have been no excess capacity if the University accepted other, more qualified, transfer students INSTEAD of less qualified VCCS candidates. But then, why should UVA operate at, or even attempt to operate at, capacity? Does operating at maximum capacity make UVA a better university? What is capacity anyway? I suppose UVA could build enough dorms and classrooms and hire enough instructors to accommodate every individual who desired to study at UVA. I fail to see how such a policy would be beneficial to the University. </p>
<p>Of course, it is totally unnecessary to guarantee admissions in order to set forth the courses a transfer candidate needs to gain admittance to UVA. UVA could simply post the list on its website and provide the list to the community colleges for them to post throughout their schools. Transfer candidates from four-year institutions figure out the necessary courses to take without the benefit of a guarantee. </p>
<p>With respect to the 230k students at VCCS, I did provide a link: <a href="http://www.vccs.edu/vccsasr/Research/anualhist.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.vccs.edu/vccsasr/Research/anualhist.htm</a> I never said that all 230k would seek admission or qualify for admission to UVA; however, the whole UVA undergraduate population is around 13,400. It wouldnt take a huge percentage of VCCS students to make a large impact on the size UVAs student body.</p>
<p>While I find your quote from Access UVA surprising, I fail to see how this fact is an opposing argument to a discriminatory transfer admissions policy. If anything, it tends to show that UVA has a long-standing policy of providing preferences/affirmative action to community college transfer students. I also highly doubt that VCCS students collectively possess an extraordinary and exclusive talent for writing phenomenal college essays.</p>
<p>Even if 15,000 graduates is the correct figure for VCCS, a substantial number could have above a 3.4. Im sure many VCCS students never graduate, so graduates are probably among their best students. Perhaps, many more would apply to UVA if they knew their admission was guaranteed. At any rate, UVA has been directed to increase significantly the number of such students [community college students] transferring to UVA. It would be rather disingenuous of UVA to guarantee admissions to group of students that do not exist in order to meet the state requirement; dont you think? </p>
<p>You seem to buy the spin -- The diversity of life experience that VCCS students bring adds immeasurably to the student experience here at U.Va. But, if the University felt that diversity in life experience (enrolling more non-traditional students) was so important, it could directly evaluate each candidate for that trait (regardless of what school he/she previously attended); there is no need to use community college students as a proxy. VCCS does not have a lock on non-traditional students and certainly all VCCS do not fall within that category. </p>
<p>Lets face it, the select Virginia politicians who negotiated this deal with the UVA, W&M, and Virginia Tech were not sitting around the table saying we will give you all this autonomy that you want if you could just get some more students with diversity in life experiences on your campuses. </p>
<p>The real reason: MONEY plain and simple. It is much, much, much CHEAPER for the Commonwealth of Virginia to educate students at community colleges than at four-year institutions. BUT, in higher education, CHEAPER does NOT equal QUALITY. </p>
<p>I believe that these guys intend to fundamentally change the way students gain access to UVA. They designed these guarantees to entice good students into the VCCS system (and to initially forego four-year colleges). They know that many students will still not want to enroll at a community colleges, so duel enrollment and similar programs, to earn college credit from community colleges while still in high school, are all of a sudden a hot item [explanation for posting article]. Coincidence? </p>
<p>Of course, if the program works as planned, most of the students obtaining the guarantees in the future will not help with diversity in life experiences as they will be typical college-aged students.</p>
<p>Eventually, students possessing guarantees could easily crowd out those students seeking admission through more traditional channels. Once individuals become accustomed to these guarantees/entitlements, they will be politically difficult to change. Entitlements always develop a constituency who will fight to keep them. Check out Texas top 10% law and the Texas Legislatures refusal to change that law despite pleas from the University of Texas. Pretty soon, UT will not even need an admissions department. </p>
<p>The politicians who designed this program believe that the proper way for Virginia to educate Virginias growing college-aged population is to expand the use of community colleges rather than to build new four-year colleges. In their minds they could get twice as many students through schools like UVA at a much cheaper cost if everyone would just do their first two years at a community college. UVA would have twice as many juniors and seniors, but no freshman and sophomores; hence, it could graduate twice as any students each year (than the presently do) without increasing enrollment. Quality is of no concern whatsoever.</p>
<p>It appears that this Restructuring Act was presented to the legislature as an agreed upon deal in which all parties were on board. Apparently, it did not receive the scrutiny that it deserved; no big debates played out in the newspapers and on television. Now that some of the details are coming out, perhaps this whole deal will get a second look in the next legislative session.</p>
<p>In short, many states would love to have state universities as good as some of Virginias schools; however, our state universities will become as ordinary as most state universities if we dont hold our legislators accountable.</p>
<p>Do you really have nothing better to do? Honestly, dude, we understand that you're smarter than UVA's entire administration, board of trustees and admissions office put together, but give it a rest. Learn some humility and find something better to do with your time.</p>
<p>Don't you get it?? The answer is "no," he DOESN'T have anything better to do. Let him have this thread. Just let him keep it and hold it dear... He can't attend UVA, let this be his consolation prize.</p>
<p>wow this thread really got hijacked.. i kinda wanted some actual information about transferring (and, sadly, I am not from a Virginia CC, which this might have helped once I got past all the bickering) ...</p>
<p>Hear that? It's the sound of the world's smallest violin playing the world's saddest song for everyone who was dissatisfied by the contents of thread #189630.</p>
<p>I know pinkdillo, i'm seriously interested in knowing answers to some questions, but everyone is too into arguing and ridiculing than helping. I made another thread and got 1 response, and it didn't even give me advice.</p>
<p>What exactly do you want to know?</p>
<p>Are SAT II's required for transfer applicants?</p>
<p>What is the acceptance rate to the B-School from the general school @ UVa?</p>
<p>What is the acceptance rate to the B-School from our school?</p>
<p>No, I don't think so.</p>
<p>I've seen numbers ranging from 54-75%. I'm not sure, but it's not too difficult.</p>
<p>"our" school?</p>
<p>"our" as in an external transfer from another school that isn't UVA, not from CAS.</p>
<p>Summary of Senate Bill 538 passed by the legislature:</p>
<p>
[quote]
SB 538 Higher educational articulation agreements; requires agreements between four-yr. & community col.
Walter A. Stosch |</p>
<p>Summary as introduced:
Articulation, transfer, and dual enrollment and admissions agreements. Requires all four-year public institutions of higher education to develop articulation, transfer, and dual enrollment and admissions agreements, including dual admissions programs for qualified students to be simultaneously accepted by a community college and, contingent upon the successful completion of an acceptable associate degree program from the community college, by the four-year public institution of higher education. The State Council of Higher Education must include in its guidelines for these agreements conditions required to establish dual admissions programs that set forth the obligations of the students accepted in the programs, including grade point average requirements, acceptable associate degree programs, completion timetables, and the students' access to the privileges of enrollment in both institutions while attending either institution.
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<p>Looks like UVA got a lot of autonomy in this deal.</p>
<p>OMG Quixotic. Who cares? I mean really? </p>
<p>I've stayed quiet about your posts about this matter because I found them on occasion to be interesting, but really, you're just getting obnoxious about this issue. (Stop hijacking this post!)</p>
<p>Personally, I take offense with your attitude towards community college students and UVA's acceptance of them. You're making VCCS transfers feel like 2nd class citizens, and some posters who are VCCS transfers have alluded to feeling as such. You're just trying to cloak your elitism and snobbery towards them under the banner of "fairness." People try to call us from UVA snobs and elitists, but in fact, we have been the ones to have defended our school's policy or at least had a "wait and see" attitude. </p>
<p>If you want to make change, take your own advice and write to your legislator and seriously MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE.</p>
<p>(My advice to everyone else is to ignore him. Trolls will eventually have to retreat underneath their bridges.)</p>
<p>pihiplyr13,</p>
<p>According to the Office of Admissions website:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Applicants must complete the Basic Application for Undergraduate Admission and the Supplement for Transfer Applicants and return them with a $60.00 application fee to the Office of Admission. Along with the above credentials, applicants also must provide the high school transcript, college transcript(s), and SAT (or ACT) scores. All of this required information must be submitted as soon as possible but no later than March 1 for August admission (November 1 for January admission). Decisions are mailed around May 1 (December 1 for spring semester applicants).
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<p>If I remember correctly, around 300 UVa students are accepted into the Comm School each year. The acceptance rate will vary depending on how many people apply, but on average 300 come from other schools within UVa. Outside of UVa, I don't know the acceptance rate, but I do know that about 30 students are transfers from outside of the University.</p>
<p>If you have other questions, call the Transfer Division of the Admissions Office at 434-982-3200.</p>
<p>Hope that helps.</p>
<p>Globalist:</p>
<p>If you feel that my posts are obnoxious, please do not read them.</p>
<p>Also, please do not mischaracterize my statements.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>Thank you! I read that, and then I looked at college board, and college board said SAT II's were required for ALL applicants, so I wasn't sure, but it sounds like they are required for all FRESHMAN applicants.</p>
<p>I'll call the admissions office because I have some credit transfer questions. It seems like no business classes are going to transfer.</p>