Hello all,
I am a freshman at college currently and a part of an accelerated BS/MD program. I am thinking about transferring out and continuing my pre-med studies the traditional way. I still want to pursue medicine however just not through this program. My reasons for leaving have nothing to do with my grades or academic standing. I am still within the boundaries for the required GPA for the program and a competitive GPA in general. The only thing that is stopping me from transferring is the idea that medical schools will use this transfer out of a BS/MD program as a red flag to deny me admission. Some have told me that this shows some commitment issues and medical schools may think that giving me a spot will not be worth the risk.
I know the pros/cons of a BS/MD program and have spent months considering this change. I understand the struggles that come with the traditional way such as the stress of the interviews/decisions and cost of apps. However, my reluctance comes from the aspect that I will be looked down upon by medical schools for leaving and forgoing my reserved spot through the program.
Can anyone who is knowledgeable in this area please enlighten me whether or not this will come as a red flag to medical schools.
@candydragon101,
Usually in a 7 year BS/MD program, during the first 3 years, you are classified as a undergraduate student. Often times, you are not taking any coursework at all in terms of the medical school or with medical school faculty, so on your transcript there will be no record of you having ever been as part of a combined BS/MD program. You’ll have to go to your registrar to ask them or ask/buy a copy of your transcript to see exactly how it will look like, if you’re concerned about this.
Whether it’s a good decision to leave or not, is entirely an individual decision and there is no right or wrong answer, I think it all really depends on the caliber of your medical school you’re potentially leaving in your current 7 year BS/MD, on whether it’s worth it.
I have definitely known people who have left BS/MD programs for a variety of reasons, and have gotten into medical school through the traditional route. You can always say you wanted a more well-rounded, comprehensive undergraduate education in terms of coursework, which is perfectly reasonable. In general, medical schools and really even residencies, don’t always take well to the concept of accelerated combined BS/MD programs for several reasons, so that alone will not be a deterrent and is something you can easily defend when it comes to applying to other medical schools, if you’re even asked.
I would not transfer out - can’t think of any pro to transferring out that would outweigh the cons.
@nerdyparent, well one big pro is that you’re not stuck committed as an undergrad to a lower tier, lower reputation medical school which can directly affect your residency possibilities in terms of specialties and institutions that are available to you. That’s a big pro. If there is any “good” time to leave, it’s after the first year of a BS/MD program in which you’ve only finished your freshman undergraduate year as @candydragon101 has done.
As a student who has been there and done that, your residency opportunities will depend less on your medical school’s ranking and more upon your GPA, USMLE scores, and performance on clinical rotations.
Getting out of an accredited med school 1 year early is a huge plus - less debt, etc.
@Nerdyparent, as now an attending who has also “been there and done that”, and also previously taken part in looking at ERAS residency applications in deciding who we gave residency interviews to, you should know that your medical school reputation does indeed play a role, especially in the very competitive residency specialties and at specific residency program institutions, since different medical schools are known to put out different caliber of graduates, on average. Everyone comes in with grades, USMLE scores, and clerkship grades & evaluation comments. Med school reputation and their track record in terms of quality of graduates is one more stratifier that is used.
The actual, exact numerical ranking difference isn’t relevant (i.e. difference between being ranked #8 vs. #11), but the reputation of your school is important. It’s why the caliber of match lists (even in the non-competitive specialties) every year is so different at different med schools.
Depending on the tuition being charged, 1 year in terms of debt + interest, is nothing.
@Roentgen that’s news to me. People from my state medical school got into competitive ENT and orthopedic programs without any trouble. The guy 2nd in my class did his internal med residency at a Harvard affiliated hospital.
As an assistant professor in the state med school myself, I would venture that our differences in opinion are perhaps regional or that having an elite ranking med school on a resume is only a factor at certain programs.
Getting your MD from a state school will NOT bar your hopes of entering a specific specialty.
Ps ^my post before this should have read, “as a former med student myself…”
Although in this business, we are all eternal students of a sort.
@nerdyparent, I’m not referring to a public state vs. private medical school or public state vs. Ivy League medical school type of comparison. There are some excellent public medical schools that are not only highly ranked (some of them ranked higher than many private or Ivy League name medical schools), but also have a very good reputation in terms of their medical school graduates by residency programs. I never said that if you go to a public state medical school that you have no chance at all in matching into a competitive specialty. I also never said medical school name is the only puzzle piece, but right or wrong, it is one of the puzzle pieces, and thus students coming from lower ranked, lower reputation schools will have to do much better in other areas when it comes to matching into certain specialties or programs, compared to someone coming from a highly reputable school (i.e. Wash U vs. Meharry).
If the school is in danger of closing or has accreditation issues, then certainly it would be worth considering transferring out.
Otherwise, hang in there - I think transferring out would look bad on paper without a good reason - plus you are giving up a certainty (presumed acceptance at med school where he already is) for an uncertainty (transferring out and potentially not getting accepted to med school elsewhere).
I think both of you are overlooking the real issue which is: will a top medical school look down upon someone who backs out of a BS/MD program. I mean we have a student who applied to this program, was accepted, chose to enroll, and if we are talking about having only 1 year at the program, that means deciding to apply for a transfer basically as soon as the person got on campus. I’ve never seen such a case come up in my MSTP adcom (where it would probably be less of an issue than an MD adcom since it would make sense to drop a BS/MD to pursue MSTP) Unless there is some very compelling reason for the switch (e.g. finances, needing to relocate for a family/medical reason, being victimized by another student), I would be concerned. Will this student come to my medical school and then on day 1 pull out too?
I think I may have addressed this but wasn’t too clear, but my belief is that at most BS/MD programs after high school, you’re not classifed as a “BS/MD” student on your official university transcript in anyway – i.e. on your listed major. You are classified as a normal undergraduate student with the specific undergraduate major of your Bachelor’s. So at most BS/MD programs, especially in the first year, there is no medical school coursework going on at all – whether that be basic science courses or just rudimentary mandatory clinical shadowing exposure that is listed as a course on a transcript, etc. You’re only taking undergraduate coursework, so you’re not in anyway classified as a “med student”.
He/She’s not really “transferring” by the exact definition. My understanding is he/she will be leaving the BS/MD program track but will be staying at the undergraduate institution to complete a full 4 year undergraduate degree, since the undergraduate degree in the 7 year program was likely compressed in terms of degree requirements, as well as waivering out of certain courses usually required for the traditional undergrad in the same major in order to fit it well into 3 years.
So unless the medical school could figure this out by looking directly at the transcript, there would be no way they will know UNLESS it is somehow written on that transcript, he/she says it out loud during an interview, or it is somehow written in a letter of recommendation for some reason from the people you ask to write you letters. Students used to and still do successfully transfer out even from Brown’s 8 year PLME program to get into better medical schools, which you think would be even worse, from an adcom standpoint, but being only done with your freshman year of college, is in no way looked down on, as most medical schools and even residencies, don’t take too well to the accelerated med program concept when it comes to choosing applicants to begin with.
What @candydragon101 should do is ask to see his/her official transcript, and talk to the registrar and possibly an adviser to see how exactly his transcript would be marked (if at all, which it probably won’t since it’s not an institutional action of some kind like cheating) if he were to leave the BS/MD pathway.
^gotcha. I did pick up on your “no med school courses” comment but you’re right I did not get that you meant “no way to know student is in BS/MD.” I didn’t think about that. Excellent points. Thank you.
No problem @iwannabe_Brown! I could definitely see someone who is old-school (and there are many at med schools across the nation), on an admissions committee, having the perception and real concern that you wrote. I think it also varies A LOT by the BS/MD program in question. For example at UMKC’s 6 year BA/MD program in the first year of the program, students take courses that are taught by UMKC’s medical school clinical faculty - they aren’t taught at medical student level of course, but more serve as an introduction to the profession, learning to get comfortable with patients 1 on 1, being able to take a patient’s chief complaint, history of present illness, past medical history, etc. but the prefix for the courses are like MED (for Medicine) 9110, MED 9120, etc. So if you left the program, those courses would appear on your transcript and you’re definitely likely to be asked about it, no question.
Even then knowing that, many medical schools and even residency programs don’t take kindly to the concept of a 6/7 year BS/MD program for many reasons (many of them good reasons to be quite honest), so if anything they might see it as a positive that you left early before you are effectively stuck — someone who had enough introspective capability to know that this accelerated program wasn’t going to make them a well rounded human being, which is important to being a doctor.
I was more directing it to nerdyparent, who said he couldn’t think of any pros of leaving after college freshman year completion, before we got off on the tangent regarding residency perception of medical school reputation.
I think it boils down to your reason. You say it’s not because of grades or academic, so do you just not like that school anymore, of did you find out they don’t have the specialty you want and that’s why you want to get out.