Transferring to elite schools

Transfer Students
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I currently attend Howard University and I don't like it. Here are the schools I am considering transferring to for Fall 2010: Yale, Stanford, Columbia, Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, Brown, University of Virginia, and University of Texas. </p>

<p>I don't have a stellar high school record, but I think I've made significant improvements as a college student and I am in the honors program. I will probably post a 3.7 GPA for Fall 2010, but I might make a C in my Arabic course. By the way, I am a Classics major.</p>

<p>High School: Private
High School Type: sends many grads to top schools
Will apply for financial aid: Yes</p>

<p>Academics:</p>

<p>GPA - Unweighted: 3.15
GPA - Weighted: 3.75
Class Rank: top 50%
Class Size: 112</p>

<p>Scores:</p>

<p>SAT I Math: 490
SAT I Critical Reading: 740
SAT I Writing: 710
ACT: 26
SAT II Literature: 710
SAT II U.S. History: 740</p>

<p>AP tests:
scored 4's on US History, English Literature, English Language, and US Government tests.
Extracurriculars:</p>

<p>Significant Extracurriculars: Key Club, Student Council, Student Recruiting Team, Debate Team, School Retreat Team, Diocesan Youth Board, Intern for federal judge
Leadership positions: Director of Teen Retreat, Class President, Student Body Secretary, Diocesan Youth Board, Core Committee of Student Recruit Team, Editor of school newspaper
Volunteer/Service Work: Over 500 hours throughout high school for various projects - Shorkey Center (for disabled children, Catholic Charities, City Visitors Bureau, etc.
Honors and Awards: National Achievement Outstanding Participant (top 4% of African-American PSAT participants)</p>

<p>Should I just go ahead and apply for Fall 2010 admission at these schools or should I wait until Fall 2011 so that I have a stronger college record to stand on? I know I have the intellectual firepower to make it at the aforementioned schools; I just need time to prove it with my grades.</p>

<p>Having said that, what are your thoughts about transferring for Fall 2010 admission? Fall 2011 admission? Any suggestions for safety schools or further tips about the transfer process? I really think I want to leave Howard.</p>

2

<p>Very weak highschool stats and test scores, followed by mediocre at best(for a transfer applicant) college record. It’s one thing to have a 3.7, but I personally believe a C will not look good on your transcript. Not to mention that ALL of the schools you are thinking about are the most selective institutions. The chances are very slim, if any, and I would suggest applying as a junior with a major gpa boost.</p>

<p>Having said that, I think it’s also important for you to think about WHY you want to attend these particular schools. Right now, it only seems like you are drawn in by the prestige, which is an understandable reason. However, these schools will definitely not accept that as your answer. Have specific reasons as to why you want to attend these specific schools, not just “i want to get out of my current institution.”</p>

<p>Finally, if you are so keen on leaving Howard, definitely look into safety schools, because your list looks very doubtful with your current records. I think you need to provide more information about yourself and do the research on your own to refine the list.</p>

3

<p>Shakala, you are preaching to the choir. I am very aware of the special perils that come with applying to these schools as a transfer applicant. Secondly, it is my personal opinion that most students would kill to have scores of 700 or higher. I understand that the 490 is atrocious, but I think my test scores are solid otherwise. I have created a list of positives and negatives about Howard. Since most users on here are not members of admissions committees, I didn’t feel the need to articulate my reasons for transferring on here. Here they are:</p>

<p>PROS
Immersion in the Black experience
Required African-American courses
Exposure to diversity of thought, culture, dress, speech, behavior, lifestyles among people of African Diaspora
Legacy scholarship – four years of paid tuition guaranteed
Opportunity to study abroad with four years at Howard
Opportunity to win Luard, Beinecke scholarships
Possibly easier to pursue Truman, Rhodes scholarships
Pursuing degree under tutelage of professors I like
Perks of Honors program: $8000 for travel, study abroad; first pick for course registration; get to stay in Towers sophomore year and onward
More likely to attain leadership positions in organizations e.g., Debate team, Editor of Hilltop, President of CASHA, COAS, or even HUSA
Study in a major city – Washington, DC – access to memorials, museums, government institutions; city of global significance, but has small town feel.
Get to have more realistic experience of world – have to fight for everything at Howard, deal with crime, poor neighborhood –prepared for real life.
Going to HBCU may be advantage in admission to Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, Berkeley, Georgetown, Michigan, Texas, and Tulane Law Schools.</p>

<p>CONS
May be limited by Black thought, lack of diversity
Lack of intellectualism on campus; lack of political, social engagement; party-like, lax atmosphere
Classes not particularly challenging
Hard to thrive socially – few genuinely interested in studies, making a difference; materialistic students; few values – sex, excessive partying, drinking, drugs, etc.
Difficult to cultivate Catholic faith – few Catholics, few resources for Catholics
Homophobic campus
May not graduate with honors because of dropped College Algebra I course
Anxiety caused by administration, bureaucratic hurdles (accreditation, graduation scheme, class registration)
Average student takes 5-6 years to graduate, normally without job
Learning experience limited; not learning from classmates like I would at Georgetown, Columbia, etc.
Facilities are shabby
Many organizations not well-funded, few resources
Administration dangerously inept – story of classmate’s father who pursued doctorate at Howard: administration lost record of transcripts, credits, etc.
Howard degree less prestigious than Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Brown, or Georgetown degree</p>

<p>Also, the University of Texas is not particularly difficult to transfer into. Do you have any suggestions for safety schools similar in caliber to UT? I’d like to stay on the East Coast if possible. I appreciate any advice that might increase my chances of achieving my goals.</p>

4

<p>I think you’re shooting way too high here for Fall 2010 with that high school record. I agree with shakala, I wouldn’t be surprised to see you get rejected by every school on that list.</p>

5

<p>I’m not trying to offend you, but you really need to shorten your list. Honestly, there’s no way you’re getting into Yale or Stanford with those stats. I wouldn’t try Duke, Columbia, Georgetown or Cornell CAS either (not for fall 2010, anyway). The others may be plausible, but if you apply, I implore you to wait and pull your college gpa up and actually learn about these schools. Right now, you’re just applying to America’s top schools, but have you asked yourself why each one appeals to you outside of their high ranking status?</p>

6

<p>Your opinions are well-respected here, and that is why I said “for a TRANSFER applicant.” I agree with you that many people would kill to have SAT scores over 700, but schools of such caliber would not be impressed by mid-700 SAT scores. Again, your gpa of 3.7 and some solid test scores will be respected, but definitely not under the realm of transfer admissions at places you are currently looking at.</p>

<p>It’s great that you have already compiled a list of pros and cons of your current institution. My other suggestion would be to make the same list for the prospective schools. This way, you can really think about why you would want to attend certain institutions, and it will definitely help in writing your essays.</p>

<p>In terms of safety school suggestions, I think you are basically looking for a more academically challenging atmosphere, with a diverse student body. I would suggest NYU, Boston College, and Emory, as they all boast academic rigor. Boston College may especially suit you for its Catholic background, and you can still find diversity among the students. However, these schools are in no way “safety schools,” but you should nonetheless check them out to broaden your views on what you seek from your undergraduate education.</p>

7

<p>You guys are being a little dramatic. I had a much lower HS GPA than this dude (think low 2s), had a 3.9 from a significantly worse college, and got into one of those “uber” selective institutions as a sophomore transfer.</p>

<p>I think the OP should take a shot; of course, none of those schools are guarantees, nor is the OP’s shot particularly good, but it’s worth a whack.</p>

8

<p>Well I think all of the schools besides Stanford and Yale are plausible if he waits a year. I believe I stated that, but sorry if that’s not how it sounded.</p>

9

<p>Naw, I think all schools besides Stanford and Yale are “plausible” even for fall 2010. If OP pushes up that GPA to a 3.8 for admission in fall 2011, those schools become good shots. </p>

<p>Again, I think it’s worth the app fees. Just make sure you put your best foot forward.</p>

10

<p>I appreciate the honest assessments from all of you; no offense taken. I’m going to give Howard a go and I think the most reasonable way forward would be to apply for Fall 2011 admission.</p>

<p>The lack of resources and academic rigor here at Howard are my biggest turn-offs. Also, I don’t mesh well in the social atmosphere at this school. I’ve provided my list of good and bad and I will be taking the next year or so to form more cogent and thoughtful reasons for transferring. I am in the process of visiting these schools and have been doing preliminary research about the Classics departments at these colleges among other things.</p>

<p>I figure that save the qualms I have about Howard, I am already at my “safety school” so why not apply to my dream schools (I have enjoyed my visits to Columbia and Georgetown; Yale has always been my dream)?</p>

<p>Do any of you have any pointers (aside from getting good grades) that might enhance my chances by 2011?</p>

<p>PS: Shakala, I still think your claims about my scores are verging on hyperbole. When you say that I need 800’s on my tests, it makes you sound like you are less knowledgeable about this process than you claim to be. I don’t have any muss with you, I just want to know what experience informs your responses.</p>

<p>Also, I am trying my very hardest to bring my Arabic grade to a B which is very possible at this point. I have A’s in all of my other courses.</p>

11

<p>I only said those scores will not impress the admissions committee, as such scores are expected at such high-caliber institutions. If I said those scores were subpar, then I think I may have exaggerated. However, I said that the numbers were mediocre, which means that majority of the competitive applicants will have similar stats. Plus, I believe a total score of 1940 and a 26 ACT score is below the median of the applicants for these schools (Not actually sure about UT…) Again, commendable achievements for certain test scores, but not a factor that the highly selective admissions committees will be drawn to.</p>

<p>Regardless, at this stage of your admissions process, scores are the least of your worries. There is no point in debating about what kind of test scores or outstanding or sufficient, because 1) You can’t do anything about them and 2) colleges will mainly look at your college performance. After all, SAT scores are indicators of your college performance, and you are already at college.</p>

12

<p>Fair enough, shakala. I think I place a little more faith in my scores because I know a guy at Georgetown who has stats similar to mine and was accepted with a substantial amount of financial aid (albeit as a freshman). When I mention my scores to students at the schools I’ve visited, they all tell me that I should apply for '10 admission if I really want to be there. I’m taking all of these things with a grain of salt however. </p>

<p>On another note, will my extracurricular activity at Howard be a factor in admissions?</p>

13

<p>With extracurriculars, I would advise that they reflect your specific passions or expertise. A lot of people assume that the sheer number of leadership roles may impress the admission committees, but with so many colleges and miscellaneous leadership opportunities, I feel that admission officers care little about the quantity. I would suggest getting involved in areas that you are passionate about, so that you can actually engage yourself in the activity and feel motivated to elevate yourself and your cause. Along with the involvement, your essays and professor recommendations can also focus on these passions and that’s when your application becomes very personal and impressive. Make sure to research the prospective schools and explain how your interests will fit in perfectly with the opportunities offered at these schools. Of course, having a couple of remarkable achievements (academic honors, etc) would not hurt either.</p>

<p>Basically, an application should be viewed as a whole package that describes you as a competitive applicant. If you put too much information into it, you lose focus and the interests of the admissions committee. You want to capture their attention with really interesting ideas and credentials, not bore them with the usual extracurricular activities that everyone would have done once in their academic careers. Impressive credentials don’t come from curing cancer or climbing Mr. Everest, but rather, the extensiveness of your involvement in specific fields so that your genuine interest shines through.</p>

14

<p>Something that should be on your pros list is the incredible recruitment. I don’t know a top firm that doesn’t recruit at Howard. Being at the top there is a big opportunity.</p>

<p>Make sure the other schools are all you think they are. I hear lots of kids saying ivies are not the intellectual bastions they thought they would be.</p>

15

<p>Unless you retake the SATs, raise your GPA, and tell us something that you’re leaving out - you’re an Olympic medalist, etc - we can assume that you’re going to face some pretty hard sledding. </p>

<p>Think of it this way: you’re looking to apply to schools that routinely reject valedictorians, nationally ranked athletes, etc. Focus your search. Just choosing the best schools isn’t the best way to find that magical fit.</p>

16

<p>you need to be more realistic op. Your stats aren’t that good.</p>

17

<p>I understand that my chances of succeeding in this endeavor are virtually impossible. But, I don’t think I need to be all that realistic; if I have a bucket of A’s on my transcript by 2011, I don’t see a reason not to go after what I want. I happen to think that I have a compelling case to present if I demonstrate that I have transformed from a mediocre student to an excellent one - which I am well on my way to accomplishing.</p>

<p>I will be the one writing these essays, asking for recommendations and transcripts and what not. So, I’d appreciate any comments that would move me closer to presenting the best possible application that I can come a year or so. If there is any more information I can provide that will help you help me, I will gladly provide it on here. Am I going to succeed in gaining admission to most of these schools, especially the ones that I am serious about? Probably not. Will I let that scare me? No.</p>

<p>By the way, does anyone feel like saying something that hasn’t been said already like offering suggestions for some safety schools?</p>

18

<p>You have an unusual background and write very well. It’s obviously not a safety, but you might want to apply to the University of Chicago.</p>

19

<p>Again, I think many of the people in this thread are being overly dramatic. While I do think Yale and Stanford are probably wastes of application fees, Columbia, Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, Brown, University of Virginia, and University of Texas are not. They’re definitely worth an application for fall 2010.</p>

<p>I also think many in this thread overly dignify the students who are admitted at these schools (transfer or otherwise). My classmates at Georgetown were nothing too special (law school classmates were definitely more impressive); I wasn’t special myself (and I definitely considered myself to have worse stats than the OP). Yes, schools like HYSP have their fair share of geniuses, but for the most part students at these places are nothing special.</p>

20

<p>OP, in terms of safety schools, what do you want in a school besides prestige? And I’ll agree with you that if in 2011 you have a “bucketful” of A’s, then you do have good shots at these schools.</p>

<p>Flowerhead: I’m not overly dignifying the students at these schools… I believe you that there are a lot of students at these places that are nothing special, but the fact is their stats are in comparison to the OP.</p>

<p>How about UNC?</p>