Right, but the legislature just thought it best to leave it to the school districts because there are some that DO need to adjust the schedules for agriculture or surfing (or rowing or maybe skiing). In California there were no buses in our community but in others there were, so those district may need more flexibility to use the buses most efficiently. Where we lived when my kids were in grade school, the hs kids were picked up at 6:30, the middle school next about 7:30 and my kids started school at about 9. In high school we moved to a different state and they did it middle school (7:30), elementary next (8:15) and hs at 9:15.
It makes more sense to let the majority of students have enough sleep. Benefits for a few students cannot be higher than the benefits for the majority. Also, I donât see how the 8:30 AM start time affects the surfing activities. The best surf times of the day are 5 AM - 10 AM and 4 PM - 10 PM according this site:
http://www.surfing-waves.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2968
The argument is about agriculture is vague.
^ The argument is about agriculture is vague.
My understanding was that he was suggesting that farm kids should start school early to have longer afternoon to work in the farm.
In California students can only work on the farm after they have completed grade 7. 12-13 year old students are not allowed to work during school days. 14-15 year old students can only work at most 3 hours during school days.
^^ And for that reason, that district may take fall break very early, or run 4 day school weeks.
There are a lot of ways to get around laws.
A couple high schools in our area have adopted a âseminar scheduleâ to help de-stress the week for students a bit. I think it has helped significantly.
Mon, Tues, and Friday have a regular 6-period day with each period being almost 60 minutes. (30 minutes for lunch) The day starts at 8am.
Wed has 90 minutes each for periods 1, 3, and 5. Thurs has 90 minutes each for periods 2, 4, and 6. These days start at about 8:50am and most teachers have a prep period from 8 to 8:50. (Zero period starting at 7am is M, T, W, F only)
Both Wednesday and Thursday have a 40-minute âseminar,â which can be one of the following depending on the studentâs choice or needs:
â Normal study hall
â Test makeup time as needed
â Class-specific remedial help for students with Ds or Fs
â More help from counselors for students with multiple Ds/Fs or family/drug/etc issues
â âAP Study Hallâ where students with A,B,C grades can spend the time in their hardest class to get homework help
â Enrichment study hall (various enrichments or extra time for CS classes, art classes, drama, music, gardening)
â Math âdrop inâ tutoring
â Writing center help
â Use computers in the library
â College and career center drop in (and test prep for 6-week sessions)
â Student Teaching (for example, students who did well in AP classes tutor others)
The idea (and it seems to work this way for my kids) is that there is less homework on Tuesday and Wednesday nights. Also, a lot of athletic games are on Thursdays, so kids on teams donât miss as many classes.
My younger son is now a freshman taking AP Physics 1. He finds the seminar time very useful to work on homework packets and ask questions. He can also work on other homework if he doesnât need to work on physics.
Presumably, this is so that class activities (e.g. science and art labs) that take longer than an hour can be completed without interruption (putting the lab work into storage in the middle and then taking it out of storage the next day)?
It does not seem to be that unusual these days. My old high school now has a similar schedule, where each class period has 3 regular periods and 1 double period in a week, instead of 5 regular periods in a week like when I went there.
Yes, besides de-stressing the week a bit, it is beneficial for classes with lab-type activities. Not so useful for PE or lecture-based classes like history or math. Teachers have to adapt their teaching styles, which is probably a good thing.
Even for something like history or math, a teacher who wanted to write a longer test could schedule the test for the double period days. For PE, it may depend on the activity whether the double period is helpful â if the activity involves a lot of preparation or putting stuff away, a double period would reduce the amount of time spent doing that stuff relative to the actual activity.
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/2035011-light-and-heavy-ap-courses.html may be relevant with respect to the sub-discussion about workload in AP courses.
One high school student taking 5-6 âlightâ AP courses may have less work than another taking 3-4 âheavyâ AP courses, due to the greater material that must be covered in the latter. So counting just the number of AP courses may not give an accurate impression of the workload that the studentâs schedule will bring.
Also depends on the kid. Some kids will find certain âlightâ AP classes to be extremely difficult. Others will find certain âheavyâ AP classes to be easy.
And different high schools treat different AP classes differently which means workloads can vary significantly with the same AP class.
So there are a lot of variables.
The thread may be drifting but I think this is relevant. How do we define stress? What are its causes? Is there a difference between stress and simply not knowing how to handle disappointment / hard work? I ask that last question because we all know many people who are not properly prepared to be successful in AP classes. AP classes are not for everyone. In fact, they are only for ADVANCED students in a particular subject matter. The kid who struggles with English Lit should not be enrolled in AP Lit. They are setup for failure. But, they enroll, and become overwhelmed with the work. I donât know if this is really stress as much as them facing reality that they canât really compete in that subject at that level. Doesnât make them bad, or dumb, or anything else other then in over their head in a fast paced environment that canât slow down for them to catch up. Unfortunately, todayâs society is obsessed with making everyone âfeelâ like they can achieve. So much to the point that a significant number of AP students should never have enrolled in those classes. It starts early. As a spouse of an educator with many educator friends, youâd be appalled at the frequency of parents refusing the decision that their child should not be placed in âgiftedâ in elementary school. Literally sitting in a teacher conference and disagreeing with the data, going out and getting private tests and forcing the school to include in âgiftedâ because thatâs where the kids friends are. This happens every day. Gifted gets watered down and becomes main stream. Then AP happens and thereâs no watering down. These kids just have never had to deal with the fact that they arenât AP material. Perhaps theyâre not hyper selective college material either. They donât need to be. There are many, many great schools pout there. I think a major contributor to the whole equation is that parents set ridiculous expectations and are disingenuous with their kids regarding their academic ability and /or the appropriate colleges to shoot for.
At the end of the day, the world is a meritocracy (at least the US) and people rise to their level of competency. Plenty of room for everyone to find their way.
My younger kid tested in to gifted first try when they gave the cogapt in third grade. No question she is gifted. She canât write or spell. It takes her twice as long to write an essay as my older kid who was not gifted. And who took 10 AP tests and IB with mo issues at all. Got five 5âs, a 4, and four 3âs. The gifted kid will not do IB. No way, no how.
I think the article lays out stress pretty well and it aligns to what I see in my kidsâ suburban Boston HS. Last year, 4.7% of the 2300 kids in the HS attempted suicide. Almost 15% are cutting. Over 10% had a detailed plan to commit suicide. The school refuses to say how many kids are receiving in patient psychiatric care. (In the article, the number at Highland Park HS was significant.
The pressure these kids feel is unrelenting. Our HS is now almost majority kids whose families are from testing cultures and they bring this ridiculous mindset to school. Two years ago my son was sitting between two girls in AP Chem (which he subsequently dropped to move to Honors) and the teacher handed back the test. He got an 84 and was not too pleased. The girl next to him looked at her score and burst into tears and said âmy mother is going to kill me; I cannot go home after school.â Her friend looked at the test score and said âoh noâ and tried to console her. The score? A 97. YupâŠa 97 which is an A/A+ in our schoolâŠnot good enough.
For these parents, there are a handful of acceptable schools (Harvard/Yale/Princeton/MIT). Anything else brings âshame to the familyâ. (The latest I heard at Starbucks from a group of parents talking: âI am fearful that she (daughter) will only get into a lower ivy. I cannot live with that type of shame.â The pressure they put on the kids comes to school with the kids and creates just a horrible culture. Unfortunately, you need leadership at the district level (we are a 1 high school district) to begin to address culture and our district has a weak, weak leader.
So what is pressure? It isnât the âoh my gosh Iâm so nervous about the testâ that we all experienced. It is the âif I donât get an A on this test/quiz/paper I will not get into a good school and my life will be over.â Thatâs what pressure is for our kids these days. And it sucks. And it needs to stop.
@SwimmingDad my kids have told me stories of other kids in their classes who had dinner withheld after Bâs. I didnât believe it at first. Then I got a little more involved in the culture. I know one mom who regularly tells her son that if he doesnât do better (heâs in 3 AP classes as a sophomore and always looks exhausted) he will end up at âCal State Fullertonâ as if that was a fate worse than death.
I think I know which HS this is. If I am correct, there are a lot of bright students that do well in college admissions from there. But I had no idea it was so dysfunctional. Very glad we didnât move there when we had the chance.
@VickiSoCal, would it be too passive aggressive to give the parents Tuffy the Titan sweatshirts?
I do feel sorry for the children though. Iâm sure the parents think they are helping, but geez.
@VickiSoCal I know a family that calls Cornell âclown schoolâ. They were bitterly disappointed when their oldest only got into UCB. Their younger child, on top of he regular school day, is taking 4 separate classes at home with private tutors as a middle schooler to be well ahead of the game.
When my daughter got a C on one test, my wife made fresh baked chocolate chip cookies to cheer her up. Her friends were jealous.
^ taking 4 separate classes at home with private tutors
I would think that those kids donât need be competitive to have a happy life, thanks to their parentsâ ability to support them financially.