Trophies for everyone?

Parents Forum Parent Cafe
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The whole concept of participation trophies (very much against) and self esteem is interesting. Self Esteem is incredibly important. However, I believe rather than inflating it by participation trophies, its real value shines when actually earned/accomplished beyond the minimum expectations of just showing up. Prepares you for life.

S’ HS baseball coach put it well (I think). Doing your best and all the little things that go toward that don’t guarantee you anything , but not doing so almost always guarantees failure. Many would call him old school. Fair enough, as he is my contemporary which makes him old! But I have found these words to be valuable. I’m in sales so winning is important (if you consider earning a living and eating important). After 35 yrs of professional sales/ business ownership, I can assure you there is no “fair.” Going above and beyond is often required to just get by. No participation trophy in my line or work, but it sure does feel great when we accomplish things.

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Any downside to a participation trophy (especially for the very young) is far outweighed by the parental shenanigans that often go along with youth sports. The complaints about playing time, criticism of coaches, screaming at and directing their kids from the sidelines (sideline coaching, for those who are-luckily-not acquainted with this phenomenon). This behavior is far more detrimental to kids’ self-esteem than a participation trophy (which most kids are savvy enough to know means nothing) yet it goes unchecked year after year.

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Much earlier in the thread, someone posted that their D got a trophy for completing 5 years of dance. My D’s dance teacher gave those completing 5 years a silver dollar with a small certificate. I think it was a nice memento that commemorated their persistence and something that would have meaning for as long as the students wanted to keep it and didn’t take up much room.

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And Reese Bobby (father) said:

I can quote lots of movies to make a point too. And Dale Earnhardt was one old guy. I have never run across a winning at all cost mentality in youth sports. I have run across it in college sports. However, I’m sure it exists out there somewhere.

You keep assuming that an object, a medal, trophy, etc. is needed for celebration in youth sports. It’s not. Kids are happy with cake, cookies, ice cream, orange wedges, Capri Sun’s, etc.

I once took a timeout in the 4th Q of a championship b-ball game, in which we were losing by A LOT of points, and told the team to just enjoy the moment. Look around, they earned their spot with hard work perseverance. The other team was just WAY better. That happens.

Celebrate moments (“Great play Jane”), not with metal/plastic objects. If you don’t get the point, then I’m sorry, I can’t explain any more than that. There are hundreds or thousands of moments in a season to celebrate accomplishments, say like juggling a soccer ball 100 times without touching the ground.

You assume an absolute, where none was stated. I never said “you always can choose your kid’s coach.” Parents have plenty of opportunities to choose dance studios, gymnastic gyms, clubs for v-ball, b-ball, soccer, LAX, etc. Lots of choice, at least around here.

And around here you can choose public high schools. Or go attend private schools. However, if faced with one coach at one high school, then I say “embrace the suck,” you’re now 14-18 years old.

I’ve made my point, participation medals and/or trophies are completely unnecessary. I’ve handed them out on many occasion. And I’ve also argued my point here. That’s my opinion. Others have theirs. Time to move on for me.

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I could be off base here but suspect Sushiritto may have been talking about club sports more than rec sports. Because don’t parents check on the reputation of coaches and teachers of their sports before enrolling them? I certainly did. I actually did know who my girls gymnastics coaches would be at each level and what their reputation was in giving young gymnasts a great foundation in skill building.

The local AYSO or Little League, no control over what you get. Club soccer and travel ball, you know what you are getting. High school is the same. You know what coaches are there and what their reputation is. You can decide if that person shares your coaching values (or not) and make the decision to play (or not) for him/her.

Now let me go find a big ol trash bin for all of those useless trophies that my two adults care nothing about. LOL

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Google to see if you can donate them first. If so, far better for the planet. :wink:

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Long-time rec soccer coach checking in. I stopped doing trophies years ago and shifted to medals. They are smaller, cheaper and can be made to be
more about the season.

When I hand them out I say something short about each player to recognize some cool achievement they had during the season.

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Well at least we seem to agree that neither Ricky Bobby’s motto (“If you ain’t first you’re last”) nor Dale Earnhardt’s statement (“Second place is just first loser”) are messages that ought to be taught in youth sports.

Yet, upthread you you were tickled with the comment of your D’s coach about the prospect of a second place trophy expressed during a particularly long, hard fought, evenly matched middle school contest, when she paraphrased one or both of these comments:

However likable or well-intentioned, this coach was expressing the exact same binary ‘if you don’t win, you’re a loser’ sentiment as Dale Earnhardt, Ricky Bobby, and Ricky’s high father. Only it wasn’t a movie or Nascar, it was middle school sports. Whether the coach seriously believed this, she conveyed “a winning at all cost mentality” to the middle school kids.

See the example immediately above for an example of when you have seen it.

I am not assuming any such thing. IMO there are better, more meaningful, and less wasteful ways of celebrating and honoring achievements than trophies. But that goes for trophies for winners as well, so it is beside the point.

It is one thing to say, plastic trophies are dumb and create too much clutter, let’s come up with something better. It is quite another thing to say, these first place trophies are great, but all the rest are dumb because all those other kids are losers.

@crimsonmom2019, most kids don’t have the luxury of choosing their school based on the quality of the coaches.

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@mtmind Agree 100%. I certainly didn’t. But I could choose to not allow my child to play for that school coach if their coaching values were egregiously different than mine and to find another place/space (rec, travel) with a coach who had values that did align.

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Great point! goes off to Google trophy and medals donation places

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When I was a kid, I played just about everything. Our regular teams never got trophies. The team would get a trophy if we won the league championship. Individuals would get trophies or something if they were selected for the All-Star team and there may have been some individual trophies for best player in the league (things like that). We didn’t know any different and certainly weren’t upset if we didn’t get acknowledged. Quite the contrary, we looked up to the kids who were singled out and strived to be as good as they were. Put in more work, maybe next yr. That’s what self esteem is all about.

No kids felt bad , and yes we kept score, and all the kids would talk about the games at school the next day. It was awesome! Somewhere along the line we got duped into thinking this wasn’t good behavior and it was detrimental to the kids. Crazy.

Wait until these kids shoot for competitive jobs. No one will care if they feel unappreciated or if their feelings get hurt. Nobody deserves the job or the interview when their are hundreds applying for the same spot. Life is a competition. Getting in to college, a job, a scholarship, a grant, etc. means you took a spot and somebody else was rejected. Just showing up doesn’t cut it for most things worthwhile. And the self esteem happens when you actually do something worth feeling great about.

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In our area, rec sports generally end at the high school age. And usually the travel coach IS the high school coach. The only coach picking that goes on here is in the little ages (up to U8) rec sports. if you have a parent who wants to coach and their kids want their friends on their team, then you MIGHT get to be on that team. Not always. And for travel we don’t have a lot of choices. The choice is “do you want to play for X?” If not, then you don’t play at all or drive 1:00-1:30+ each way for practice which isn’t practical for most.

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Raising hand and wishing I hadn’t been on the impractical drive side. I understand not all can and/or choices can be limited though. I really do.

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How do you know this? When I’m at school, the kids who are feeling bad/unworthy rarely speak out about it.

The problem with must win competitions at a younger age is humans are still developing then. Trophies to the winners (math/sports/whatever) pretty much tells some to give up because they “aren’t good enough to compete.” That may or may not be true, but if they give up thinking they aren’t good enough because of an elementary or middle school contest, there’s no hope.

Far more kids are helped when they are encouraged, and IME, just letting them know it’s ok if they are on the normal curve, but later developing vs first out of the chute helps.

Even in racehorses, those that win the 2 year old races aren’t always those who go on to win at 3 or 4 when others catch up in their development. People are no different.

The pure competition race favors those with money (for best coaching in whatever) and early natural talent, but rarely the majority. It’s commonly loved by those who “succeeded” because they assume everyone is like them, and to some extent, because it keeps others in their place (out of the competition).

It’s fun to do things and kids keep track (as do adults), but it’s wrong to say no one gets hurt when winning is everything. The winners just don’t see it.

It is important to know how to lose and pick yourself up when something doesn’t go your way though. No doubt there.

And to me, trophies don’t matter one hoot either way as I said before.

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@crimsonmom2019, I understand what you are saying. Families in some areas, especially affluent areas, may have those options. But for most families the choice is often play for the available coach or don’t play at all.

@rickle1, my upbringing was very much like yours, so I think I understand where you are coming from. Nonetheless, I get a kick out of the back-in-my-day mentality often expressed in these discussions, especially because I am always tempted to engage in the same thing.

Are the kids of parents who would frequent this website really growing up in a less competitive environment today than when you or I grew up? Are they really less equipped to apply for competitive jobs? Are they really constantly sheltered from the pressures of falling short?

I mean, look at this website. Or the hyper-competitiveness of college admissions generally, or of just about any other aspect of youth education.

  • Kids constantly being groomed (or grooming themselves) for college admissions with curated “E.C.'s” almost from birth
  • Parents uprooting their lives and/or paying substantial sums to try to get their kid into a school where they will might a leg up
  • Club sports, national travel teams, and specialized athletic training from mid-grade school on up;
  • National, state and local player rankings for each grade in each sport, from high school on down through grade school;
  • Multiple detailed rankings of colleges, high schools, grade schools, and nursery schools;
  • School, local, state, regional, national, and international math contests, history contests, instrumental music contests, science contests, art contests, etc.;
  • Constant pressure from an early grade to get into the most rigorous math track, to take the most rigorous classes in all subjects, and avoid ever getting a dreaded “B” else dreams (especially parent dreams) will be crushed.

The list goes on and on, and doesn’t even include social and status pressures magnified by social media. And in each situation, kids face the prospect of rejection, failure, inadequacy. And, sure, some of these same pressures existed back then, to some degree, but it was not anything like what it is today.

In short, while I have my doubts that these kids are being well-equipped to lead happy, fulfilling lives, but I have no doubt that they will be more than able to handle applying for a competitive job.

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Answering the question literally, I would be fine with doing away with all the dust-gathering trophies. Kid#1 - said he wanted to keep the (few) trophies that were for an actual win, I could get rid of the rest. Local trophy shop had no suggestions for donating. I ended up prying off the nameplates and donating to Goodwill. I hope someone actually was able to use them. Kid#2 - I boxed them up for her stepkids to use for whatever. Kid#3 - uggh, I still to clean off those shelves.

Answering the bigger question, most of my experience is with rec-level sports, but I absolutely think kids should be recognized for showing up, putting the effort, learning the skills. No 8-year-old should be labeled the “first loser”.

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My kids grew up in the everyone gets a trophy era. They are now ages 30 and 25. They have gone through college and grad school applications, applying for jobs, promotion opportunities, etc. and guess what? They are doing just fine! Not that they always got into the schools they wanted, or got the job or promotion but because they were able to keep the trophy thing in perspective.

As I said upthread - people make WAY too much fuss about this.

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We spent many years with kids in little league and our experience was, woe to the parents who tried to maneuver their child onto a team with friends or a preferred coach. You definitely could NOT do that. And there were big differences in coaches who won at all costs, including one who was continuously pushing the line towards cheating or berating teen umpires - in a first grade little league game. We were so relieved never to get that coach. Of course, when the kids got a little older he was always the coach of the all star team which his kid always made. Yuck. Love the really encouraging coaches at those ages, they really make a difference!

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WOW! That is so not anything I agree with. That is everything I hate about sports.

Life should be about lifting each other up not cutting each other down. It’s should be about helping each other and the planet.

Competition is what’s wrong with this world, IMO. Competition fuels corporate greed. Competition fuels war.

Collaboration is working together to make it a better place, helping each other, not taking away a spot from someone else, but creating more room at the table.

Really really glad my kids were into the collaborative performing arts instead of competitive sports.

(And I agree that CC is too competitive. I told my D22 to stay away from here. I am just here to research and parse the info for her. )

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Showing up and helping one another is how we get so much that is worthwhile done. I’m not really into out-competing anyone at this point.

S was specifically repeatedly told at orientation and after that to succeed in engineering, study groups were essential. That was something he had never done before—studying with others, but he took it to heart and it worked great for him!

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