Trouble deciding ED for Mt Holyoke/Macalester/Cornell/Kenyon

<p>Hi! Firstly: I'm an international student which makes this whole "college selection" thing a bit challenging when it comes to deciding on RD colleges without seeing them, never mind the challenge in selecting ED colleges!!</p>

<p>So can you please tell me more about the above colleges (other than on the academic level)!! I've thoroughly searched each of their websites but I'd like other peoples opinions on things such as campus,food,social life, prestige, whatever.</p>

<p>I've included a bio of myself so you can suggest where I'd probably be accepted if I didn't apply ED and vice versa:)
THANKS A BUNCH:)</p>

<p>SAT1: CR: 700 M: 640 W: 600
SAT2: Still to take: Biology M and Math1
Nationality: South African citizen but lived in Canada (2005-07) and therefore hold Permanent Residency
Gender: Female
Ethnicity: White
Class rank: 1 / 159
Overall percentage (we don’t have GPA): 88%
School subjects: English, Biology, Math, Drama, History, 2nd language (isiZulu)
I am currently top of my class in Biology, English, History and Drama and am close to the top in Math and isiZulu.</p>

<p>EC:
• Member of youth group worship team (2004 – 2006)
• Founder of on-going Students Christian Association (2005/06)
• HIV/ AIDS Awareness Campaign Planner (2005/06)
• Senior Mentor (2006)
• Sunday School teacher (2004/ 2007)
• Vice-President of Representative Council of Learners – similar to students activity council (2007)
• Free-lance journalist for community newspaper
• International Peace Camp delegate (one of 50 international students to attend)
• AIDS Centre, TB Clinic and hospital volunteer (2007/08)
• Head Prefect – in charge of basically running all student and discipline affairs in school (2008)
• Volleyball, Cheerleading, Model United Nations debating, School plays, Waterpolo and choir</p>

<p>FINANCES: I am an only child from a single parent family. My mother can afford to spend about $3000 a year on university fees. Also, I haven't had a job in the past 2 years.</p>

<p>MAJOR: Neuroscience or Biology (with a concentration in genetics or immunology depending on the university) and a minor in Global Health Studies/International Relations.</p>

<p>Your list has one rural (Mt. Holyoke), two very rural (Cornell/Kenyon), and one urban/semi-urban (Macalester) institutions. You might want to think about that if part of the experience is seeing a bit more of the way Americans live. (Mt. Holyoke is part of the 5-College Consortium, if that helps.) Mt. Holyoke will have the highest concentration of international students (roughly 15%). Cornell, of course, is by far the largest, so will have the largest number of course offerings. Mt. Holyoke offers a Five-College Consortium Certificate program in IR, which, taking together the faculty from all five colleges, has a faculty to match Georgetown's. There is also a great Five-College Program in "Culture, Health, and Science".</p>

<p>If it were me, I'd choose Macalester for quality of life (the neighborhood is really wonderful), and Mt. Holyoke for range of academic offerings.</p>

<p>(If you really wanted to do genetics or immunology, I'd choose Smith over Mt. Holyoke. Smith is a national center for parasitical genetics and genomics research, and the student research opportunities are likely greater. And, unless you really want bucolic, the town is much better.)</p>

<p>If you're an international seeking significant aid--and CoA runs a LOT more than $3000 a year--then I wouldn't advise ED anywhere.</p>

<p>I would strongly recommend taking the SAT again and try to bring up your math and writing scores</p>

<p>If you have to ask, you shouldn't be applying Early Decision, IMO.</p>

<p>Also DO NOT apply ED if there's any chance you might not be awarded sufficient fin.aid (which I see may be an issue for you).</p>

<p>Your best bet is to apply to all of these RD so you can compare aid packages and so that you don't end up committed to one school and dreaming of attending another.</p>

<p>Well, one reason to apply ED at a school such as Mt Holyoke is that it is almost automatic for anyone with decent statistics (such as this student.) All female schools such as Smith and Mt Holyoke have stratrospherically high admission rates in the ED rounds, as they seem to reward amply the few candidates who decide to make such schools their sole choice for ED.</p>

<p>^ Actually, Mount Holyoke's acceptance rate for ED applicants is very high (119 out of 225, or 53%), but that's almost identical to its overall acceptance rate (1671 out of 3194, or 52%). So there's no real statistical advantage to applying ED, and as it locks you in whatever the financial aid package, I'd recommend against it. The reason ED applicants make up almost a quarter of the entering class is that MHC's yield on EDs is (virtually) 100%, while for regular decision candidates it's about 26%.</p>

<p>Smith doesn't post their acceptance rate for ED, but their overall admits rate is 52%, same as Mount Holyoke's, and their total number of entering ED applicants is only a little higher, 142. So I very much doubt there's a huge statistical advantage to applying ED there, either. This OP's stats appear to be well within the upper half of applicants who are accepted and enroll at these schools. I'd say both are easy "matches," no need to apply ED></p>

<p>for Ed, if u don't have the money to attend the school but u got accepted and it IS ur first choice, will the college be nice in terms of money?? i'm kinda stuck on this too, whether or not to apply ED</p>

<p>You should definitely NOT apply ED if money is likely to be an issue for you. Just check the CC discussion boards -- there are dozens of threads on this issue.</p>

<p>Remember that very few colleges are "full need met" schools, and even when they are, it is the school -- not you or your family -- that defines your "need." And some or all of your financial aid package can be loans that have to be repaid.</p>

<p>Colleges are not likely to "be nice" in terms of money for ED candidates. In fact, they may even be less generous since they know the ED admittee will be attending their school anyway.</p>

<p>what are some of the "full need meet" schools?
and, if u can pay the money, do they take away ur acceptance?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Smith doesn't post their acceptance rate for ED, but their overall admits rate is 52%, same as Mount Holyoke's, and their total number of entering ED applicants is only a little higher, 142. So I very much doubt there's a huge statistical advantage to applying ED there, either.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>BK, Smith does publish its ED application numbers, and I have often posted the numbers that CLEARLY show a HUGE advantage for ED applicants at Smith. Actually, the advantage is so high that I have called it one of the best kept secrets. </p>

<p>Because of the relatively small pool of applicants who make Smith their first choice, the rate of admission has been variable but it falls usually between 70% and 85%. </p>

<p>For example, for the class of 2010, Smith numbers were
RD 1819/3427 = 53%
ED 166/212 = 78%</p>

<p>Mt Holyoke, in turn was
RD 1632/3065 = 53%
ED 182/269 = 68%</p>

<p>I'd say that a 4 out 5 chance to be admitted is a pretty considerable advantage. Now, if applying ED to Smith or MHC --considering the high RD admit rate-- is a wise choice is a totally different question.</p>

<p>It isn't a secret. Smith clearly wants students who have already determined that they want to attend a "women's college", not simply a liberal arts college that has the negative quality of being all women.</p>

<p>^^ And according to Mount Holyoke, for the class of 2011, the admit rate for ED was down to 53%, virtually identical to its overall admit rate of 52%.</p>

<p>Mount</a> Holyoke College :: Class of 2011 Profile</p>

<p>I haven't seen class of 2011 numbers for Smith. If you'd got them, would you be willing to share them? All I can say is that they list the number of entering freshmen admitted ED in the class of 2011 at 142--down significantly from the 166 you show for the class of 2010. But they don't say whether the total number of ED applicants rose, declined, or stayed the same:</p>

<p>Smith</a> College: For Guidance Counselors</p>

<p>Sure, BK, here are more numbers for Smith: </p>

<p>ED 2011 147/227
ED 2010 166/212
ED 2009 164/216
ED 2008 156/192
ED 2007 152/211</p>

<p>FYI, here's the page where you can find the best comparative numbers for the past years. The Common Data Set forms provide a consistent source of information and are easily comparable among schools and years.</p>

<p>Smith</a> College: Institutional Research</p>

<p>The CDS 2007-2008 covers the Class of 2011
<a href="http://www.smith.edu/ir/documents/CDS2007_2008WTUITIONFINAL_4.24.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.smith.edu/ir/documents/CDS2007_2008WTUITIONFINAL_4.24.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Cornell is famous for having good food for a college. Women tend to be finicky about food so women's colleges such as Mount Holyoke tend to have very good food. Rural private colleges tend to have very good food to keep their source of income contented so I would expect Kenyon to have very good food. I would be surprised if Macalester's food weren't more than acceptable.</p>

<p>I have only seen Cornell and Mount Holyoke in person, and will only comment on their appearance.</p>

<p>Cornell is in a very rural part of New York that is particularly attractive. There are places on campus, particularly on the walks to and from the main campus to the dorms or nearby in town housing, where the views are spectacular. The main campus also has several spectacular, but small, gardens in its center. As a medium/large university, ~20,000 students in all, the main campus is more built up than the other schools you mentioned and the scenery is hidden on many of the more direct routes between classes. The architecture is variable. Many of the older buildings have great character, particularly the one that was one of the first student unions in the country. The newer buildings are more variable and don't fit in as well with the older buildings as those at the smaller schools I have visited. </p>

<p>Ithaca is large for a college town, ~30,000, but small enough that you can get from the city center to farmland in about 15 minutes. The part of Ithaca near Cornell is very oriented towards college students. There is also a pedestrian mall region further from the college that is attractive. The environment, while not quire as charming as Charlottesville or Burlington, is attractive and well suited for almost any student. The surrounding rural area is largely farmland, with some vinyards. The farms are very attractive, and the finger lakes and hills provide interesting variety and ready access to outdoors activities.</p>

<p>Cornell is undoubtably the most prestigious of the schools on your list.. Its faculty are strong in almost every area of study. However you can also expect it to have larger classes, particularly at the freshman level. The freshman psycology class, filled to the brim with 1300 students, is the most often quoted example. It will also rey on graduate students for supplemental teaching. FWIW the international population is particularly large in both numbers an proportion.</p>

<p>Mount Holyoke is about 12% the size of Cornell. Its older buildings are in a Gothic style that give it great character. It relies more on trees for its landscaping than does Cornell, and I appreciated the sense of solitude provided by them. (Wellesley and Smith, with landscaping originally designed by Olmsted, make even more spectacular use of the landscape, trees and shrubs in particular.) The newer buildings fit in well with the older ones, partly because, with its smaller population, there has been less of a premium on space. The student center had great intimacy, even though it was a converted athletic facility. A large portion of the space is given over to an excellent arboretum. The on campus equestrian facility is also large.</p>

<p>Mount Holyoke has a minimal college town. South Hadley is very small. What there is near Mount Holyoke is relatively high quality for a student oriented are, but there is not much of a student oriented area. Northampton, near Smith, is much more interesting, and only about half an hour away.</p>

<p>Outside of South Hadley the area of Massachusetts near Mount Holyoke might best be described as semi-rural. Farming in that area was difficult, and largely disappeared in the mid 1800s replaced by small industrial towns, separated by small woods, a few specialty farms, and fewer private estates. The collapse of much of New England industry in the mid 1900s, was largely compensated by the growth of the education industry, UMass Amherst in particular. The result is an atractive mix with near suburban population densities, at least near South Hadley. Outdoor activities are available, but better in the Berkshires a half hour away. The Berkshires are spectacularly beautiful.</p>

<p>Mount Holyoke is a very good school, but is probably the least prestigious of the schools you mentioned. It was the first woman's higher education school in the states, but by the early 1900's Wellesley and Smith were more respected. However it has an excellent reputation at Biology and Chemistry, your main areas of interest, and I found the new science building very attractive. Proportionally it has a very large international population, about 20%. As with many other educational consortia, making use of the resources at the other "five colleges" is awkward due to the driving distances, about 20 minutes to Smith or Amherst.</p>

<p>Have you considered applying early ACTION anywhere? Then you'll have an idea early in the application process about your acceptances, but won't be bound to a college. </p>

<p>Your list is so diverse, that I think it would be a mistake to apply early decision anywhere. </p>

<p>Cornell is by far the largest on your list. What appeals to you about it? All of your others are small LACs, but it is an ivy. Kenyon is quite rural, which bothered me, but perhaps not you. If you like Macalester, take a look at Carleton. I would really advise you NOT to apply ED to Macalester without visiting. I thought I was a perfect fit on paper, visited, and HATED it. As in, if I were bound ED there, I would rather have attended community college for a year and reapplied to other schools. If you like Kenyon, look at Grinnell and Oberlin. </p>

<p>For a back-up, try Ohio Wesleyan, because it gives a ton of merit aid (not sure about FA for internationals).</p>

<p>it (ohio wesleyan) gives ton of merit aid especially for internationals but in its international student admission standards it is on par with kenyon and macalester. for domestic applicants, certainly not so much.</p>

<p>Thanks for the tips - esp nmparents for that fabulous description of the Cornell and Mt Holyoke's campus and towns!:) </p>

<p>One thing I have noticed that I wasn't aware of is ED and FA. I was under the impression that if you applied ED some where and they didn't award you enough aid then you were no longer bound to your contract? Isn't that why on some stats there are always one or two people that are accepted ED but not admitted?</p>

<p>And does any one have anything to say on the social life of these places? such as the approachablitly of students and what local facilities are available nearby - eg: movies, bowling, skating rinks etc?
Thanks:)</p>

<p>It's possible to get out of an ED contract, but very difficult - thus why out of thousands of applicants only "one or two" don't attend after an ED acceptance. If there's any chance you may not receive sufficient FA, then DO NOT apply ED.</p>

<p>I don't know enough about any of those schools to comment on the social life, however Kenyon is really rural and I don't know that there would be much to do off-campus there (obviously this is just an assumption and someone who has actually visited/attended there would be more qualified to answer)..</p>

<p>xiggi, re: post #14,
OK, I stand corrected. Smith's ED acceptance rate IS very high. But at 64.8% for the class of 2011 (according to the figures you supplied), it's considerably lower than the near-80% figure you quoted for previous years, and still definitely higher, but only 13 points higher, than its 51.8% overall acceptance rate for the 2011 class. Combined with Mount Holyoke's 53% ED acceptance rate for the class of 2011---again, much lower than in previous years and almost indistinguishable from its RD acceptance rate for the class of 2011---it suggests something is going on at these schools. Any idea why the sharp decline in ED acceptance rate at these schools?</p>

<p>It appears there's only a slight uptick in ED applications at Smith, so that can't be it. Perhaps increasing numbers of marginal applicants applying ED?</p>