Troubles with a research scientist in my lab

Graduate School
1

<p>Hi, recently my advisor hired a research scientist to manage his rather large lab. This post is more for Doctoral students and others who work in Engineering and Science labs. I’m in an engineering lab at a University in California as a PhD student. </p>

<p>As for this research scientist, at first things went very well with between me and this woman, but things seem to be getting worse to the point it is really becoming a pain. Basically, I don’t think she reads me work, talks to my advisor about my work, but she continues to give useless feedback and ask me to do meaningless work assignments. This is becoming a significant disruption for me. While things seem to be going well with my advisor, I often seem to be arguing with this research scientist about my research. Often times the research scientist’s feedback is not in line with my advisor’s feedback. Also, it is nearly impossible to get in touch with the research scientist. For example, I’ve had a 1 hour meeting rescheduled with her 3 to 4 times over a 1 month period once. She seems noticeably uneasy around my advisor, which makes meetings with her and my advisor in them awkward.</p>

<p>Has anybody been in a similar position? I’d like to improve the relationship, and get meaningful feedback. I’d actually want zero feedback from her on my work vs. lots of bad feedback. In this case, zero feedback would be an improvement. I’d like to avoid wasting my time and energy arguing with her over stupid stuff. Any advice? By the way I don’t have any trouble working with woman. I’ve had many positive experiences with woman in my undergrad and graduate careers in engineering and science. Many students in my lab, including the female students, complain about similar problems with this research scientist. </p>

<p>Also, what is the usual career of somebody hired in to manage a big lab like the situation? Do they end up eventually leaving, or branching out on their own and starting their own research? I wonder if this woman had different expectations for this position. Perhaps she saw it more as a chance to pursue her own research rather than run a lab.</p>

<p>Any help or advice would be appreciated!</p>

2

<p>Wow, this is an interesting post. You know, I’m, actually going through a similar troublesome thing, but I’d say my situation is even worse:</p>

<p>I got hired in another department at work to become an Assoc. Scientist. This woman (a year older than me) who trained me was extremely rude and condescending towards me from the get go. I’d say “hello” to her in the morning, she’d say nothing. Whenever I asked her a question, it was answered back with a rhetorical question and condescending answer, and I’d stand there looking like an idiot. I’m a pretty nice person and I try to get along with everybody. I’d try everything to communicate with her. “Hey ____, where’d you go to school?” " (dirty look) Cal Poly." “Oh cool did you like there?” “(pause) No.” ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! LOL. This was not normal behavior and she was making things more difficult than they had to be. The saddest part is that I’ve been working there for 3 months now and nothing has changed. </p>

<p>It got worse and worse. Now we don’t even talk because she’s absolutely scathing and abrasive with anything I do or say. It became so bad I was afraid to ask her anything and it almost affected my work. I was afraid to do my work with her in the room. When you need an answer for something and she’s the only one who knows but you don’t want to ask her, what are you supposed to do? :confused: </p>

<p>The rest of the department loves me. The problem is, they love her too. She’s nice to them, talks like a normal person. But she gives me the cold shoulder. If she’s having a conversation with someone at lunch and I butt in, she’ll stop talking. I hate people who are “fake nice,” you know, nice to some people but not to all. WORDS OF WISDOM: Be nice to EVERYBODY. Say hi to the janitor, thank people for holding doors open, etc etc. It might just take you places. </p>

<p>Anyways, I tried to figure out why this was happening with this girl. At first I thought it was hazing, but it’s still happening. Then I thought maybe she was trying to hire a friend for the position and get a referral bonus but instead got stuck with me. Maybe she secretly liked me, LOL. No way, she’s way too mean for that. Nobody’s that mean. </p>

<p>Even before I switched jobs, I was always planning to apply to grad school for a PhD, but now I’m secretly more motivated than ever to leave and say “SEE YA, I’m going to school in 3 months…oh yeah, and the reason I’m leaving is cause THIS girl is a *****!” It actually has happened before. The person before me left because they didn’t get along with her, so they say. </p>

<p>So what should you do?: </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Understand that a lot of managers/research scientists in academia use their grad students or techs for their own promotion. I was talking to a professor about this yesterday and he said about 1/2 of them out there are bad eggs. He said word travels fast among grad students and you’ll soon find out who are the bad managers in it for themselves. That sounds to me exactly like what you’re going through. </p></li>
<li><p>LEAVE, but don’t make it clear why to your next manager. Don’t let your new boss know you had issues with personnel. It’ll look bad on your part. Instead, tell your current supervisors, etc. about this woman on your way out. Tell them that’s why your leaving. You’ve got to warn incoming students.</p></li>
</ol>

3

<p>denizen, thanks for the advice. My position is similar but different than yours. This research scientist is not my boss. My advisor is my boss, and boss is the wrong word. He considers himself a true “advisor” to my PhD research. This is a great way to look at it I think. My advisor is tough but clearly well meaning. I don’t have any problems with my advisor. The research scientists sees herself as a “boss”. Therein lies some of the problem. I don’t need this research scientist for anything technically. She is not spending enough time thinking about my research to make any meaningful contribution or have any real understanding of it, as it is a rather large lab. I just want her off my back. I’m not near the point of leaving, as my relationship with my advisor is good.</p>

<p>No doubt these research scientists/research associates who come in are in a tough position, and it may come off like they are truly in it for themselves. This may also be part of the issue, as my advisor may not be pleased with who he hired. I’m not sure though.</p>

4

<p>Well since she is the newer person I think you stand a fair shot to talk to your advisor about letting her go. Whereas I am the new person at my job so I’m really in no position to say "it’s me or her."For you it’s also easier because she isn’t training you, so it’s not as if you need her.</p>

<p>However, both of the women we work with seem to think they’re boss. I kind of feel like she doesn’t tell me everything, then rats on me when I mess up. She once told the manager I was late by 10 minutes. Another time she grabbed a file off my managers desk that I’d submitted, behind my back to double check my work. And always she catches me doing something “wrong” 4 weeks later that she never taught me in the first place. </p>

<p>All the other jobs I’ve held have tried to develop their trainees as much as possible, not worried about their job security and that he’ll become more valuable than me if I teach him everything I know. This is certainly new for me and I don’t like it.</p>

<p>Really makes me miss my old position. My old sups are writing me LoRs. Now you can see why I’m so eager to ■■■■ lol.</p>

5

<p>

It’s good that you recognize this, and that you’re keeping it in mind.</p>

<p>It seems that the best course of action is to thank the research scientist politely for her input when she gives it (even though it’s unsolicited), but not to do any of the experiments she suggests. If it’s tough to schedule meetings with her, then don’t schedule meetings with her – make her come to you if she feels it’s necessary for the two of you to have a meeting.</p>

<p>Depending on your relationship with your advisor, you might consider directly asking the advisor in a one-on-one meeting what he expects the extent of your interaction with the research scientist to be. I know my advisor would be horrified if our lab manager were wasting my time to the extent that your research scientist seems to be, and he would take steps to better define the lab manager’s role and my obligations toward her.</p>

6

<p>When I worked in a lab I had the same problem. My mentor, not my adviser, was a bit distant and cold towards me. We would walk to different parts of the lab and have very awkward silence and if I asked certain question he would roll his eyes or give a very curt reply.<br>
Eventually I made an effort to please him by working very hard and he and I have a great relationship now. He smiles when he greets me, asks me about my personal life, etc. It’s great.
I think it may just be that your superior is shy or doesn’t know how to deal with people. Maybe give some time for her to warm up to you. After some time has passed, if you truly suspect that this person definitely does not like you, then you should consider getting another mentor if possible.</p>

7

<p>There is some truth to the fact that you can sometimes work hard to earn a superior’s respect, and this will dramatically improve the working relationship. A research associate or professor are under lots of pressure to suceed, so they need thier students to suceed. They have high expectations as they should have.</p>

<p>This doesn’t seem to my problem with this particular research associate. I’d just like it if she could remember what expectations she had for me from week to week. There have literally been times where one week she has e-mailed me, cc’ing my advisor, asking me to do something, and the next week she e-mails me, cc’ing my advisor, asking me why I’m doing exactly what she asked me to do the week before because she now feels its irrelavent, but she forgot she asked me to do it a week ago. After stuff like this happened a few times, I really begun to lose some trust in the job this reserach associate was doing.</p>

8

<p>@denizen Marry her :P</p>