Troubling Swarthmore visit - is that what its really like?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
1

<p>We took my junior daughter to Swarthmore a few weeks ago. From everything we had read/heard (including here on CC) about Swarthmore, it seemed like a great fit for her. She's an excellent student, high scores, etc. She's interested in a smaller school/great liberal arts program with a strong focus on science (biology)...and possibly an engineering program. Strong preparation for grad school in bio, bioeng, or medicine. Wants to stay in the Northeast, be on suburban/rural campus (not a city girl). She is a highly-rated athlete, and could be an attractive recruit for Swarthmore in her sport... She could be recruited by a lower-level (mid-major) D1 school, but wants to do D3 where should could contribute immediately and where academics would be prioritized ahead of sports. (Looking at results so far this year, she would easily be #1 or #2 woman on the Swarthmore team in her sport.) The "quirky" reputation of Swarthmore even appealed to her. (We know quirky, having an older child at Caltech...!)</p>

<p>However, when we went there, we got an absolutely terrible impression of the school. The kid that spoke at the info session was way beyond quirky... he was outright strange... Majoring in a couple entirely flaky subjects (can't remember what). The Admissions Director (an Asian woman) actually made a worse impression. Neither of them knew ANYTHING about the science curriculum (despite the fact that at least 1/2 of the kids attending were interested in science). The AD actually made fun of the engineering department! Saying "they are odd, but we like them anyway".... and something about how they are handy to have around to fix your appliances. (An ignorant impression of what engineers do!) She also called NJ "the dirty side of the river"! I guess she was trying to be equal-opportunity insulting...? </p>

<p>It seems to me that Swarthmore has a unique place among top liberal arts colleges, with it's strong sciences and just having an engineering program.... Hard to believe that, given the state of the economy these days, they are not leveraging those strengths!</p>

<p>I've heard of several other kids that were turned off by a Swarthmore visit, even those interested in English or similar liberal arts majors. However, I thought my daughter would get a better impression because she is looking for a not-jocky-but-more-quirky environment. It was really disappointing. When we walked around the campus after the tour, it did seem like there were more normal people there.</p>

<p>What is the truth? Did our visit give an accurate impression of Swarthmore culture? Or did we really just go on a bad day... and should we try again? Would love your thoughts. Thanks!</p>

2

<p>I’m sorry your visit was so disappointing and I definitely encourage you to try again. It’s certainly not a perfect place but my d is a senior at Swat and has loved it there. She has lots of great friends who work hard, play hard and who’s “quirkiness” is the endearing kind that makes them interesting and colorful rather than “weird.” And she loves being around so many smart kids. My d was a very strong athlete in hs although she chose not to pursue organized sports in college. She says the quality of teaching has varied (part of what I mean when I say it’s not a perfect place) but I think you’ll find that anywhere. And she says the biology courses have been very hard but the teaching generally excellent (more variation in teaching in other subject areas). Her friends have similar things to say about engineering courses. And she says there certainly are kids who’s social maturity lags behind their academic success. But there are plenty of happy “normal” kids for whom Swat has felt like their home away from home. And Swat has definitely felt that way for my d. So whether or not your d ultimately decides to apply to Swat, the school is much better than your experience led you to believe during your visit. Good luck with your college search.</p>

3

<p>toomanycats, I am SO sorry you got that impression of the school, because while Swarthmore is certainly not for everyone, it does seem to fit exactly into what your daughter is looking for. I think it’s tough to come away from just the info session with an accurate impression of what the school is like, and it sounds like your group got a particularly warped (and maybe even uncharacteristically tasteless?) view of what the school has to offer. (Let’s chalk it up to the stress of ED decisions period if your visit was in late Nov.? Joke, by the way). SO, I would definitely recommend coming back and doing a tour, as well, because that’ll add yet another student perspective and one of the required stops on tours is the state-of-the-art, LEED-certified Science Center, so the tour guides will definitely have something to say about that.</p>

<p>I’m in my sophomore year at Swat and have been a tour guide for a year now. My concerns in finding a community that was “more nerd than herd” were definitely there when I was applying. I would definitely not consider myself quirky, so because I have an older brother who went to Swat and is on the far quirky side of the “Jocky-Quirky Spectrum”, I was nervous about fitting in at Swat. However, those nerves were completely unfounded. Sure, you will run into people who are freakishly excited about their Interpretation Theory special major (which, I have to say, is not as “flaky” as it may sound), but the natural sciences as a discipline are just as dominant on campus as any of the other disciplines. At Swat, unless you make a conscious effort to isolate yourself from your floor or the greater community, you will be friends with varsity and club athletes, debaters, Student Council Reps, Sondheim enthusiasts, tour guides, budding geneticists, service award winners, etc. etc. etc. </p>

<p>I can almost assure you that if you were on my tour, you would have gotten a starkly contrasting impression. I intend on declaring my Honors Bio major next semester, with a minor in a Humanities discipline. I have to be honest that I don’t know many details about the Engineering program other than that it is one of the top programs of its kind and that it rigorously (in true Swattie fashion) crams what is normally 5-6 years of coursework in Engineering into 4 years to give a comprehensive, interdisciplinary Engineering degree. But as a Bio major, I can tell you that the Bio program is one of the most popular of all the majors. The experiences I have had as just a sophomore, I can safely say, would not have happened at 99% of other institutions. In my Bio course this semester, for instance, my class took two field trips to collect our own samples and data from marine environments along the nearby coast. We also posed our own question/hypotheses and designed our own procedure in small groups for 2 of the 3 projects in the semester. Also, the faculty is unbelievably supportive. My lab partner and I caught our professor wandering the halls of the labs at 8 pm on a Sunday night, checking that students had found all the materials they needed for their experimental apparatuses. </p>

<p>So, if you ask me, what you saw is 1/1,500 (approx. student body) of the truth of Swarthmore. Unfortunately, it sounds like you got a small sample that did not particularly pique your interest (in light terms). I strongly urge you to come back for a second visit if the drive isn’t too bad because I think crossing Swat off the list would be a mistake for you daughter.</p>

4

<p>

</p>

<p>OP, it seems that you have answered your own question. I had similar concerns before our D visited, but we were pleasantly surprised by the large number of “typical” college students we encountered. </p>

<p>Our D will major in one or more of the sciences. We were encouraged to see the proportion of Swarthmore students who go on to get a PhD in science and engineering fields: <a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/nsf08311.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/nsf08311.pdf&lt;/a&gt; (If you scroll down to p. 6, you will see that Swarhthmore is ranked 5th.) This ranking suggests that many students are interested in the sciences or engineering, and Swarthmore is preparing them well to pursue those interests. </p>

<p>You may also be interested to see what Swarthmore students do post-graduation: <a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/postgrad%20plans%202010.pdf[/url]”>http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/postgrad%20plans%202010.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Another ranking of interest is the Wall Street Journal ranking of schools based on placement of students into top prgrams in business, law and medicine: <a href=“http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf[/url]”>http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf&lt;/a&gt; These rankings provide just some of the reasons why we have no concerns about the quality of science education or the commitment to the sciences. </p>

<p>As for sports, I can assure you that if your D attends Swarthmore, she will find many athletes who have turned down D1 scholarships. Moreover, many Swarthmore athletes excel in both athletics and academics. Here is a recent example: [Swarthmore</a> College | News | Caitlin Mullarkey '09 Named Rhodes Scholar](<a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/x21613.xml]Swarthmore”>Caitlin Mullarkey '09 Named Rhodes Scholar :: News Archive 2008-2009 :: Swarthmore College) </p>

<p>Finally, I think that you are overreacting to some unsuccessful attempts at humor.</p>

5

<p>I agree with Coase, I think you are overreacting to some engineering jokes and the NJ comment. Swarthmore students usually are ‘strange,’ “but we like them anyway.” That’s the reason that I applied to Swarthmore! :smiley: </p>

<p>I think you are being strangely aggressive towards the people there. Comments like: “Entirely flaky subjects,” or “an ignorant impression of what engineers do,” seem really rude and exclusionary, yet you complain about some harmless jokes that were endeared with respect towards their fellow Swatties.</p>

6

<p>There will always be people that you don’t like, but Swat is the place where I loved more people than I would love anywhere else. I’m glad that I was accepted ED1 so that I can be at the school that I love most :)</p>

7

<p>Disclaimer/credentials: I’m a current student and former student admissions presenter. I’m planning to major in a social science and minor in a science field, but came in as a prospective humanities major with a strong background in those areas.</p>

<p>So… I’m a little confused about what exactly you disliked in your impression of Swarthmore. “Majoring in a couple entirely flaky subjects”–what kind of subjects do you consider “flaky,” given that this is a liberal arts institution that DOES focus on more than just science and engineering? What, specifically, made you think that the admissions people knew nothing about science? “They are odd, but we like them anyway”–sounds very much like something I would say about engineers (especially Swattie engineers who stick with it when there’s no penalty for switching), and I would mean it as a compliment.</p>

<p>Lots of people are turned off by Swarthmore, and that’s fine–it’s not the right place for everyone. Based on your vague descriptions of the issues that you had, I’m going to assume that you didn’t encounter anything out-of-the-ordinary on your visit, and my advice would be that your D might want to re-evaluate whether she really does want a “quirky” environment. Caltech-quirky is absolutely NOT the same thing as liberal-arts-college-quirky, although both are certainly out of the mainstream.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I will state that the sciences are EXTREMELY well-supported at Swarthmore. Moreso than other, more “flaky” majors, even. If your main concern is academic strength, then I would walk around the academic buildings, sit in on classes, and talk to professors/students–not attend an info session and expect it to cater to exactly what you want to know.</p>

<p>With regard to “normal people,” many Swatties actually think that there are too many “normal” (read: preppy) students these days. Have you visited a school like Williams, or even nearby Haverford? That would be useful to establish a baseline for social comparison (again, see previous paragraph about how useless info sessions and tours are for academic information).</p>

8

<p>I wouldn’t sweat the details here, or overthink things.</p>

<p>There are about 2000 colleges in the US, and every student needs some tools to reduce the number down to handful or 2. Some of those screens may not make rational sense to the analyst in you . . but almost EVERY school our younger visited but didn’t apply to was an excellent school: UVA; Duke, Columbia; Swarthmore, Northwestern.</p>

<p>There are DOZENS of schools that would be probable good places for your D to attend . . . and if it turns out that one of them is Swarthmore, great. If not, there are plenty of other fish in the sea.</p>

<p>If your D is interested in giving Swarthmore another shot, have her visit there herself.</p>

<p>A friend’s kid had Swarthmore #1 on her list . . .when she visited in took about 4 hours for her to call her father in tears asking to be picked up. That didn’t mean that Swarthmore isn’t a good school - in fact, it’s a great LAC - it was not good for her.</p>

9

<p>TooM, when we did our blitz of East Coast schools, it was very hard sometimes to separate the school from the people at the info sessions & tour guides. The guides at Tufts and Wesleyan were miserable, for example, and it in fact took a dinner with a recent Wesleyan-alum cousin shortly after our Wesleyan visit to dispel much of the taste of that school. </p>

<p>By contrast, our visit at Swarthmore was impressive beyond words. The presenting admissions officer - Joaquim Hamilton - in the course of an hour held up a mirror to all of our parental fears and expectations, humorously cut to the core of them, and pointed out where Swarthmore would or could deal with them in a telling, non-cliched monologue, to the point of conveying that he was representative of a school culture that was an entire cut above that of its peers. I’m not saying our ‘picture’ was more accurate than yours - think of blind men and elephants - but just suggesting that your exposure may not have been reflective of the admissions office, much less the school. </p>

<p>You raise an excellent point - if she still thinks from other sources that it’s a place she’d like to go to, go back and see it again. (Heck, see if you can chat with Joaquim to see what I mean. :sunglasses: ) Since we live 3,000 miles away, any impressions often had to be gleaned in a two hour stretch of tour & info session, then it was back in the car to dash off to the next college to meet our timetable. (We did Penn, Swarthmore, and Haverford on the same day, then finished up by strolling through Princeton after hours.) It was hard to keep the schools separated.</p>

<p>Two thoughts - (a) there are much more important things about your daughter’s likely four year experience than someone with a questionable sense of humor, and (b) try to hold off conveying your thoughts about a visit until your daughter has a chance to completely explore and vent her own. (I’m not saying you didn’t, but it raised an alarm that your recital was expressed in terms of your own perceptions, rather than of your daughter.) </p>

<p>In any case, if she’s that good an athlete and competitive enough academically to be shooting for Swarthmore, she will have her choice of a number of excellent schools. Rejoice in that.</p>

10

<p>We get this on the Wesleyan CC forum all the time: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/wesleyan-university/1191404-what-has-happened-wesleyan.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/wesleyan-university/1191404-what-has-happened-wesleyan.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>You didn’t just go on a bad day. And, going back for a second visit would probably only give an equally false positive reaction. Swarthmore has its faults, just like any other college. As some of the comments have indicated, a lot may have to do with your expectations, but, a lot more probably has to do with the fact that every LAC is a small, special place, that on any given day will shine for some people and not for others.</p>

<p>Best, not to second-guess yourself, and move on.</p>

11

<p>Nice to see the Wesleyan alum chiming in and trying to discourage potential Swatties…:rolleyes: I would NEVER have my child cross a school off the list early in the junior year if I thought the school would be a great fit. I’ve gone through this process with my 3 kids, and yes, there were some less than scintillating info sessions and admissions presentations. But many students who get really serious about looking at schools as they get to the spring of junior year and fall of senior year do more than just participate in the usual “dog and pony” show. They sit in on classes, talk to students, do an overnight, etc. In our experience, that’s a “truer” way to judge fit. Hope that the OP has come back to read the responses here, including those of actual Swat students who have chimed in.</p>

12

<p>^^Hey, you Swarthmore parents can guilt trip each other as much as you like. But, I wonder how many parents and children really have the luxury of paying two and three visits to the same school before they’ve even taken the SAT? And, shame on you for framing this in terms of its consequences on Swarthmore’s admissions selectivity. The admissions process is stressful enough.</p>

13

<p>“I would NEVER have my child cross a school off the list early in the junior year if I thought the school would be a great fit.”</p>

<p>The issue here is broader . . . I think the the purpose of those school visits - particulary in junior year - is NOT to select schools … it’s to get a better feel for what you want from a college, so that when the time comes to start selecting colleges to apply to, the student - and parents - have a sense of the possibilities and his/her leanings.</p>

<p>Sometimes kids just know that the school isn’t good for them . . . in this case, however, it’s the OP parent’s opinion that seemed shaken.</p>

<p>P.S You will find kids in LOVE with Swarthmore . . . and Wesleyan . . . and Oberlin . . . and Pomona . . . and Macalester . . . and Trinity . . and Williams . . . and Holy Cross . . . etc etc etc</p>

14

<p>johnwesley,
If I had a clue what you were talking about, I might be able to respond. Wesleyan is a great school. Carry on.</p>

<p>Kei-o-lei
Well put.</p>

15

<p>if you’re going to come into swat with such a strict definition of normal, that you’re not willing to give any leeway on, then yeah, you’re not going to like swat (and your daughter won’t either if she has the same rigid definition). </p>

<p>i really would urge you to reread your post because you sound like a snob. the part about the adcom is fine, though some people clearly have a better sense of humor than others. but comments about the dirty jerz aside, sorry that one kid was a little “too weird” for you, and if that’s going to be a turnoff for you and your daughter then yeah, you’d better steer clear of Swat. touting around the word “quirky” and adding that you have another child who goes to a “nerdy” school (an awesome one, at that!) doesn’t make anything you say any less judgmental or rude.</p>

<p>if you take issue with people majoring in “entirely flaky subjects” - and that you would even make such a statement to begin with - clearly indicates that you have little to no idea as to what Swat is about or what goes on at the school. i doubt that was the fault of the information session, however, because it sounds like there are a few conceptual and judgment issues going on here.</p>

<p>if you really want to learn about the academics and life at swat then you need to contact the departments, who are incredibly helpful, or ask admissions to put you into contact with a major in that field. if your daughter wants to learn about athletics then she should contact the coach.</p>

16

<p>Momof3sons wrote:

</p>

<p>I’ll try to break it down for you. The OP had a bad first impression. Successive visits would certainly go a long way toward alleviating it and I can understand your concern that otherwise there might be “one less swattie” (or, one less swattie applicant.) But, that isn’t how the real world works. What will more than likely happen is what Kei-o-lei describes; the OP will visit other great schools; those colleges and universities will give the OP something to compare Swarthmore to and maybe even will change their minds in hindsight. But, I would NEVER fault a parent for not permitting their child to go on an overnight the Spring of their Junior year. And, I would NEVER describe what works for me or my children as the “truer” way of doing things. Carry on.</p>

17

<p>jw,
I have no concern whatsoever that there would be “one less Swattie/applicant.” Just as Wesleyan has no shortage of applicants, neither does Swarthmore as you well know. You thoroughly misinterpreted my point. The OP and her daughter thought from what they had heard and read about Swarthmore that it would be an ideal place for the daughter and I was pointing out, as others on this thread have done, that they obviously had a particularly unusual visit, in my opinion and in the opinion of others. I made suggestions. They are free to take them or not. I was giving an opinion.</p>

<p>Since you described what you would or would not do with your children, I want to issue an apology. I didn’t know that you were a parent, and a parent of high school or college-age children at that! Please have the last word here if you so desire. I won’t be interjecting myself on the Wesleyan forum, since my knowledge of Wesleyan is limited to a one day visit with two of my children.</p>

18

<p>

</p>

<p>If anyone deserves an apology, here, it’s the OP. And, FWIW, they have at least one high school age child who has visited Swarthmore.</p>

19

<p>I say the OP should simply move on in the college search process. Why write such an obnoxious post here? Ax to grind? ■■■■■ requirement to fulfill? I can assure the OP that Swarthmore will carry on in fine style without being graced with your child’s presence.</p>

20

<p>OP did not actually know what quirky was prior to this visit. Swarthmore has educated another person.</p>