<p>I'm reading all of these posts about dual programs with great interest. Does anyone know whether applying to dual programs or for a double major at at place like NW negatively impacts an application? Do teachers question a kid's commitment to music if they also want to study something else? Is it teacher/instrument specific and does anyone know anything about how the trumpet teachers feel about it (at places such as NW, Oberlin, USC, UCLA and Peabody/JHU?)<br>
S is still trying to sort through all of this stuff...any help would be really appreciated. I'm really interested in how many kids finish in both programs. I want S to enjoy college and not feel as if he's caught in the middle of two programs that are pulling him in opposite directions.</p>
<p>BU as well...oops!</p>
<p>It seems as though you are asking two different questions: 1.Will applying as a double degree student have a negative impact on admissions decisions?
2.Will your son feel as if he's caught in the middle of two programs?
1. As far as admissions I do not think there should be any negative impact at all. I have expereince only with NW, Oberlin and Michigan, but for all of these, the application to the conservatory is considered separately (including audition) from the application to the Liberal Arts school. If both answers are yes, then the double degree is possible. It is also possible that one or the other will say no. I don't even believe that the two admissions offices consult one another, although in the case of Northwestern there is a single application with just a box to check off for the double degree.
2. As for feeling caught in the middle, I think many students change from a double to a single program without any great hardship if they end up feeling caught. At the end of her freshman year as a double degree student at UMich, D is thinking of focusing only on music, but she may still change her mind(again). I know it is also possible to add the Liberal Arts program later at some of the schools you list. (much more difficult to add conservatory later)
3. The question you didn't ask, but should also consider; some teachers support double degree students, and others discourage them. This is something to learn during tours, interviews and lessons that your son takes before applying, and this might influence a teacher's decision about admission to conservatory (for example, I am told that most music teachers at Rice do not support double degree students)
hope this helps</p>
<p>Hi there. My D is planning on majoring in Sax performance, but also doubling in some type of math / science discipline. She's choosing between Arizona State, USC and Northwestern and everone at those schools has been supportive of her exploiting her talents on both fronts. I'm sure it will be the same for your son.
Good Luck!</p>
<p>Thank you! This helps very much. I think that's exactly the kind of question S should ask when he has lessons in the fall...whether the demands of a particular studio are compatible with a double major. Good info about Rice too...one of S's quintet buddies wants to apply there...we'll suggest he ask too. His brother is at NW and apparently feels that it's tough to double major there (but this kid is extremely competitive and plans to apply there himself..much more like a violinist than a trumpet player...:) Thanks so much!</p>
<p>Saxincol: What great choices she has! Congratulations! Really fabulous!</p>
<p>According to DS, you can double major at BU but most music students who come there thinking they will do so drop one of the majors. The time constraints with performance obligations and practice time...and classes is quite a balancing act. Also, it's not all that easy to fulfill the double major courses in a four year timetable.</p>
<p>Hey Thumper...thanks very much! Tell your S thanks too! That really helps. What's your S been up to these days? Also, tell him to check out the You Tube concerts of Ruben Simeo...he's a fourteen-year old trumpet player who is making my sixteen-year old trumpet player work very hard! Ruben is quite amazing...came in second in many European competitions (which makes me want to hear who came in first!)</p>
<p>Thumper's comment about the "four year timetable" is important. Most double degree programs require 5 years because it is too difficult to complete them in 4, although I understand that some kids manage with AP credits and summer school classes.</p>
<p>Thanks nycm...5 years is fine. S is young for grade anyway...no hurry on these things. I appreciate your pointing that out.</p>
<p>5 years might be fine age wise...but I can tell you, even WITH a generous performance award from BU, it will be expensive and adding the fifth year will make it MORE expensive.</p>
<p>Hey, Thumper...you are right. Definitely a consideration.</p>
<p>Also for each college make sure to determine if there is a practical difference for your child between a double degree, a double major, and a degree plus a "minor."</p>
<p>My daughter is at Northwestern, so I can give you an example. Since the music school is a separate school (as opposed to being a department in the college of arts and sciences), if you are going to be in the music program, you will be working toward a degree in music. </p>
<p>You can be in a double degree program, say for example, music and engineering. It would take you at least 5 years, and you would get two separate degrees. </p>
<p>You could also get your degree in music, and take enough courses in another department in the Weinberg college of arts and sciences to get a designation on your transcript that you completed the requirements for a major in that department, but you don't get a separate degree. This is explained somewhere on the NWU Weinberg college site. </p>
<p>At some other university the music dept may be the college or arts and science so you may be able to double major and get one degree from the college. </p>
<p>So if doubling is important you may want to see which school gives your child the best options. --didn't Yo Yo Ma get a degree at Harvard in something other than music?--and I think William Vacchiano the long-time principal trumpet in the NY Phil encouraged students to get other degrees as well.</p>
<p>Extremely helpful post! Thank you! I will go on the NWU site. The trumpet teachers are phenomenal there and S is very interested in their program. There seems to be a growing trend among musicians to get degrees in subjects other than music while pursuing their musical careers. I know a lot of musicians who went the conservatory route who now believe that they should have gotten a liberal arts degree while doing music. They think a broader education would have only helped their music, as well as given them more options. S is looking at colleges with great trumpet teachers as well...Jon Nakumatsu majored in German at SU before winning the Van Clibern. NW's trumpeters are among the top trumpeters in the country...and are getting some truly amazing jobs. Am curious if any of them hold dual degrees. Anyone know?</p>
<p>My son definitely agrees with your assessment of Northwestern's trumpet professors. He was rejected by Northwestern as an undergrad, but is currently having a wonderful time and making great progress at Indiana U and plans to apply to Northwestern for grad school (along with other colleges and conservatories, of course).</p>
<p>I don't have any info on double majors at NW, however. My son considered such a route when applying to colleges, but changed his mind once there, due to the demands of a music performance degree.</p>
<p>I think it's helpful to make a distinction between the full set of requirements of a second Bachelor's degree in liberal arts and simply taking liberal arts classes while doing a conservatory program. I think that is is in fact somewhat more difficult to follow in Yo yo Ma's footsteps and do only a liberal arts degree while aiming for a career in music than it used to be. The training, practicing, ensemble / performanace experience that one gets at a conservatory is invaluable, and it is difficult (but clearly not impossible) to completely balance the academic requirements of a liberal arts degree with a full conservatory program (that's why it generally takes 5 years to do a DD) I think it is EASIER for soloists and composers to do this, however, since they can focus on solo repetoire and are less in need of orchestral / ensemble playing experience. That said, I think that the liberal arts offerings at schools with double degree programs (Oberlin, Peabody, Northwestern, Michigan, etc.) are generally broader and more varied than those at stand-alone conservatories (Julliard, NEC, MSM etc.). I agree with symphonymom that a broader education helps, but it is important to really look into the details (where the devil is) of what the requirments are for the liberal arts degree. Sometimes they include "core curriculum" and distribution requirments that can be rather onerous even though the idea of the double degree seems attractive. Also, please remember that getting a BM in instrumental performance certainly does not mean ending all other intellectual pursuits!</p>
<p>Symphonymom....there is a trumpet master class taught by the two trumpet profs at NU. I believe this year it is at the end of June. Typically they take only college students but the literature says that talented high school students are sometimes accepted as well. DS went last summer and found it to be terrific.</p>
<p>I'm a high school sophomore interested in minoring in music. I play at a competitive group at NEC's prep school, my school, and a music camp. I'm hoping to have the same (or more) musical opportunities at college that I do now, but I don't want to major - and I probably wouldn't make it in for music anyway. My problem is that I want a school where I can be satisfied musically as well as academically. I have no idea what I want to major in, so I need somewhere where I can leave my options open. Does anyone know what schools have strong academic programs that allow non-majors/minors to audition for the good level groups and take lessons? I know that a lot are only open to majors and some schools that I've looked at really don't have strong music departments. I would never get into a conservatory, but I love trumpet and want to continue playing at a high level in college.</p>
<p>nycm: Thanks for that great post! Yes, I'm just trying to figure out where that devil is...so S can decide whether it is worthwhile or even possible to do a dual major at a school that has a very demanding music program. Perhaps taking classes outside the major is the way to go. He has break this week and I think will contact some kids at the schools and continue his research.
Thumper: Thanks very much! S really wanted to go to this workshop but it turned out he will be in Europe on a music tour during those weeks (I know, tough life...they are touring with an internationally known soloist, so they'll get to play in some pretty amazing halls...I should have played trumpet in high school:) He'll have to come home and do some MAJOR shedding for auditions next year!
Trumpetgirl: Just had this conversation with my friend, a tuba mom, who came back from college tours. Our impression is that the very strong music schools such as NW, BU, Mich, UCLA, CMU, etc, have programs that are filled with majors. My son did the following when he was researching schools that have good musical opportunities: a) he searched for good trumpet teachers, either on the faculty or at a nearby major symphony; b) he went on the orchestra site at the school to look at repertoire (Mahler was good, as I recall). He also listened to audio clips if they were available; c) he contacted the school and asked to meet with the music department head, the symphony conductor and a trumpet player. Then he sat in on a symphony rehearsal. That gave him an excellent idea of the level of playing. Most of the big universities and some smaller ones (such as Pomona) have excellent musicians and great musical opportunities...you won't get the training Geyer, Bulter, Poper or Everson would give you, but you will have a great musical experience! Hope that helps!</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your help! I'll definitely start contacting some schools to find out what's available.</p>