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<p>guidance counselors are supposed to be experts, aren't they?>></p>
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<p>Not in FINANCIAL MATTERS. That is not their job. You need to let go of this as an idea. The GCs concentrate on helping you find an academic fit. They can also give minimal guidance regarding the COSTS (e.g. they know that instate public universities cost less than prestigious and competitive private colleges). BUT they do not know about financial aid policies...nor should they.</p>
<p>You can find automatic scholarships by using GOOGLE. Google Scholarships+ SAT 1400...or Scholarships+ACT 32...you'll get some hits that you can read regarding scholarships that are automatic with a certain ACT or SAT score.</p>
<p>Regarding FULL COST SCHOLARSHIPS...there aren't very many...period.</p>
<p>Need based is less complicated...plug your numbers into one of the finaid calculators for an ESTIMATE of what your family might be expected to pay.</p>
<p>Then start reading the college websites for the schools that you find appealing. Check admissions standards FIRST. You can't use a fabulous financial aid policy without first gaining admittance to the school. Many that meet full need are the most competitive in the country (rejecting 90% of students who apply).</p>
<p>As you can see, finding an easy search engine that meets your specific needs (privacy, scores as a criteria, etc.) is quite difficult. Why would you think a guidance counselor would have it easier? </p>
<p>Your fixation on finding someone who can tell you which schools accept your ACT score as a full ride shoe in, without first determining what courses and requirements they desire in an applicant is a little off to me.</p>
<p>I understand your frustration with red tape. I don't understand, and sorry about this, why it wasn't until you started classes at your university that you realized you couldn't pay for it without working full time, nor how you got through high school and applied to the university you ended up in for a quarter (and I assume you applied to others) without chatting to your high school guidance counselor; at a minimum to request that transcripts be sent at the time you were applying to colleges as a senior.</p>
<p>In many ways, it seems you are looking for ways to avoid going to school. If finances are a problem, and you can afford a community college that is truly, truly the first step. At least that is how it seems to me based on what you have said your finances are currently, and the fact you need more credits to be considered for transfer scholarships.</p>
<p>What is your goal in terms of major while in college, and what is your career goal? Is your only criteria that you won't have to pay a penny? I imagine many, many kids would love that. If an ACT score of 33 gave that, don't you think numerous threads would already be here? Don't you think all of those kids that have 32s/33's and above would be touting that that they were getting full rides based on that score alone?</p>
<p>Truly, I hope all works out for you, but rather than looking for the flaws in what I and others have suggested, and your notion of what a guidance counselor should know about all the many colleges in our country (3,000?) enroll in community college and get started on your plans. Delaying that process means you have accepted their deadline, and are at a minimum waiting for summer to pursue possible and realistic options.</p>
<p>It seems like someone should be an expert in this area, if only to fill a market niche.</p>
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[quote=thumper1]
You can find automatic scholarships by using GOOGLE. Google Scholarships+ SAT 1400...or Scholarships+ACT 32...you'll get some hits that you can read regarding scholarships that are automatic with a certain ACT or SAT score.
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<p>I found six schools that give full rides to certain ACT/GPA combinations, but five out of the six turned out only to be available to high school seniors, not transfer students. (Which brings up another issue: why can't I apply as a first year student if I'm willing to forgo transferring credits?) The only one which appears to offer full tuition to transfer students is Howard.</p>
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<p>True, but I still can't pay for school.</p>
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[quote=thumper1]
Need based is less complicated...plug your numbers into one of the finaid calculators for an ESTIMATE of what your family might be expected to pay.
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<p>I'll get on that. My mom made around $55,000 last year. Would that be too much for one of the highly selective schools to pay for me if I got in?</p>
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<p>Since their job is to provide guidance, they could do a manual search. But apparently that's not their job, so forget it.</p>
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<p>Well, I didn't have many extracurriculars and I have a good GPA but not a great GPA, so I need something to justify getting a full ride. That something ends up being the ACT since I think that I can get a 32-34 on it in February. </p>
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<p>I don't know what to tell you--I never spoke with a guidance counselor. I only applied to one college. Part of the problem with finances was a misunderstanding between me and my mom about how much she was going to contribute and how much I was going to contribute, as well as whether or not she was going to take out a PLUS loan. Another part of the problem was the fact that I thought I was going to be eligible for work study, which I turned out not to be. </p>
<p>I know, it was a bit of a fiasco. I should have known how much money I was getting from where and how much I'd need to work. </p>
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<p>I've since found many scholarships which don't require 45 credits. That 45 credit threshold was just a coincidence of research: five or six schools in a row wanted 45 credits or more. </p>
<p>One of my problems is that my mom and her boyfriend are selling this house fairly soon and moving across the state, and seeing as how I'm 21, I don't think it would make sense for me to go with them. This means that I need to move out, whether that means going to school or getting a full-time job. If I quit my part-time job and get a full-time job and move out, and then apply to college, I'd have to keep that full-time job while in school, which is not something I want to do. But I won't be able to pay for school with just a part-time job unless I get a lot of financial aid. </p>
<p>So basically I can quit my part-time job and get a full-time job and forget about school, or I can try to get a full ride (or close to a full ride) somewhere. I'd much prefer going to school to getting a full-time job.</p>
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<p>That's my main criteria. Obviously, if there were ten schools that I could attend for free, I'd pick the one that suited me best. But if there were two schools, one which was a "great fit" academically but offered little in the way of financial assistance, and one which was mediocre but would let me attend for free, I'd go to the mediocre school.</p>
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<p>Actually, that's what gave me the idea: I saw numerous threads about people who were offered full rides to "second rate" schools based on ACT/SAT and GPA, and were debating whether they should accept the offer or take on debt and go to a "good" school.</p>
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<p>I've actually followed much of the advice given in this thread already. I'm sorry if I come off as disagreeing with every piece of advice. I'm only trying to discuss, clarify, question. My intent is not to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. The misunderstanding about guidance counselors was just a bit of incredulity.</p>
<p>I have been following this thread. Rocket Surgery, IMHO you are abusing the people that have helped so many. It is time to take responsibility for your situtation. Proactive or reactive...you make the choice. Plenty of others have.</p>
<p>you're different basically. people are geneally much more gracious when asking for help. even though you and some know you aren't intending to offend, it doesn' stop some of your posts from being that. </p>
<p>Anyway I was going to suggest calling school to ask if you can apply as a freshman cause I've heard of that, but knowing that you're 21 pretty much makes that null.</p>
<p>Rocketsurgery, you have provided a lot of info now.
1) you only applied to the one school, without any advice assistance from your high school guidance counselor
2) you thought your mom was taking out a loan, and you would get work study..I assume that was based on a FAFSA you did Jan. of your senior year of high school? At a minimum, how did the work study fall through the cracks?
3) you are working part time now, and have credits at a cc taken while in high school, and some at the university during the one quarter you were there.
4) Howard might be an option
5) you are now 21 and your mom is moving...so you are in a quandry. You have been working part-time since you dropped out (which by the way I thought was recently. I had assumed you attended the first quarter of the 2008-2009 school year, but if you are 21 that quarter of classes at the university was what, 2 and 1/2 years ago?
6) in some ways you are not a transfer student since you aren't transferring directly from a fall session at one school to a spring session at another, but you also won't be considered a high school/first time freshman.
7) and so, we are back to going to a community college now; accrue some credits, and talk with that guidance counselor who is well versed on what Howard and other universities want in their "older" students. She/he will guide you through the application process which can include, at that point, which schools make the most financial sense for you..but no one can say, based on your current situation..even assuming an increase in your ACT that such and such a school will take you as is (i.e. no additional courses via a cc) and give you a full-ride.</p>
<p>So, honestly, are you just trying to avoid full-time work right now? I haven't heard the "passion" for a particular career. You mention you are a computer science guy, but haven't said what your part-time job is nor where you eventually see yourself career wise. And forgive the rudeness here, but why only part-time when it seems you have been out of school for quite a while?</p>
<p>Rocket, I just read most of your thread and have a few comments/ideas. First, the CC credits from high school won't usually make you a transfer student if they were dual enrollment courses. Second, the university courses will be on your "record" if you had any type of federal aid that semester and most of the schools I've looked at don't consider or even ask for ACT/SAT scores for transfer students. (There may be some that do, but I haven't come across them - you should email a few of the schools you're looking at and check this out.) Third, many schools like SUNY Binghamton (which is on your list of good merit schools) have scholarships for returning students - that means their own students who are maintaining a high gpa. As far as I know, none of the SUNY's have great merit aid for someone with a high test score and average gpa. I don't want you to pin your hopes on that new ACT alone and be disappointed if you can't use it!</p>
<p>I can understand your wanting to minimize debt but I'm not sure I follow your line of reasoning on avoiding student loans at all costs. You're 21 now and know how difficult it is to make ends meet with a minimal wage job. I assume you're going to want a degree that will give you real earning power (comp sci?). Delaying to save a few bucks in interest also costs you that time when you could be earning a decent salary and getting experience which generally leads to promotions. If you're truly commited to debt free, instead of looking all over the country, it might be a good idea to lay out your situation to a few local colleges where you can live with your mom and keep your p/t job. My advice would be to get your degreee as quickly as you can - take advantage of CLEP and anything else they offer - and keep a high gpa so you can get those transfer or returning student scholarships! You could also finish your associate's degree and get a job with a company that will reimburse your tuition expenses and take night courses to finish your bachelor's. Delaying may cost you more in terms of lost earnings and opportunities. Good luck!</p>
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Originally Posted by thumper1
I understand your frustration with red tape.
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<p>I didn't originally post the above.</p>
<p>My suggestion is a still to discuss your options with your local Community college. See if there is a course of study there that can lead to an automatic transfer to a four year school. Or get a two year degree in something where you could work for a while (if you're a "computer guy" there must be something in that field with a two year degree...CAD perhaps?). Then work full time and go to school part time to finish your four year degree. If you find the right employer, that employer may even be willing to contribute to college course costs.</p>
<p>Regarding your frustration with scholarship search engines... I agree, such a feat would fill a niche market beautifully. But schools' offerings change all the time. The best implementation would probably require a social component. And it is definitely an unfilled niche--those of us knowledgeable about merit aid have gained our knowledge through hours upon hours of research, i.e. manual searching.</p>
<p>First, allow me to apologize to anyone whom I may have inadvertently offended. I know that I come off in a way that some consider rude, but I just see myself as direct.</p>
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<p>So how does that affect my financial aid situation? I assume that I can't apply as an incoming freshman (since I've been to college), but are you saying that I can't apply as a transfer student? Or that I can, but I'm just not a "normal" transfer student? Would I be considered an adult returning to education? Does anyone know if there are different types of scholarships for such a student? I'm not sure how I would go about looking for them, since most of the scholarship sites I've been to don't seem to consider such students and I haven't come across any institutional scholarships geared toward this type of student. </p>
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<p>I'll call my community college on Monday and ask if the (missed) deadline is flexible. Do you think that no one can say that school x would give me a full ride simply because my situation is out of the ordinary? As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I was able to find six schools that offer (virtually) guaranteed scholarships to entering freshmen with a certain ACT/GPA combination. Maybe there simply are no full scholarships for my situation. In that case, my only option is to get accepted to a school which will meet all of my demonstrated need just for being accepted.</p>
<p>I may have already mentioned this, but my mom made $55,598 last year. If it matters, my dad quit his job a year ago and has been living off his IRA for the last year while trying to start a company, so his income was basically $0. Perhaps I should use his address on the FAFSA?</p>
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<p>I'm trying to avoid full-time work forever. :D I don't have a passion for a particular career, but I do have a passion for computer programming. I've always dabbled (I taught myself PHP, MySQL, and APACHE and created about 25% of a website, but quit because I lost faith in the idea), but I really got into it about five months ago. I taught myself C from a textbook I got at the library and wrote a program that plays heads-up limit poker (poorly). Then I wrote a program that plays perfect tic-tac-toe to teach myself searching algorithms.</p>
<p>Right now I'm teaching myself LISP, a higher-level language, and one idea I have is to create educational games that will help kids to learn math, science, programming, and other things which kids aren't currently being taught correctly.</p>
<p>To be honest, what I really want to do is start my own software company, and I don't think I'll have the energy to do so if I get a full-time job. I figure that school is like a really tolerable part-time job (12 hours a week in class + 8-18 hours a week studying = 20-30 hours a week). Don't get me wrong, I want to learn more about computer science and might consider a math minor as well, but the main purpose of a full-ride to college would be to give me time to work on my software projects. I figure that even if I end up studying 30 hours a week versus having a 25 hour a week part-time job, I'll get to interact with smart people and bounce ideas off them.</p>
<p>As for why I haven't been working full-time for the last two and a half years, well, it didn't start out that way. Immediately after I dropped out I got a four-month temporary gig doing data entry type stuff which paid remarkably well ($14.00/hour), but I basically screwed it up. It was the first real job that I'd had, and I was very depressed during this period of my life, and I didn't get asked to stay longer after the assignment ended. After that I moped around and was depressed for a while, but eventually got a full-time job at Target. Unfortunately, the intense customer service was too stressful for me, and I quit after a few months. (I'm not saying that this wasn't another immature move, I'm just giving you the facts.)</p>
<p>I got a job delivering pizzas, and it was truly awesome: I didn't hate it, the money was good, and I didn't even have to work full-time. It seemed like I would be able to move out shortly. Of course, the next thing I did was total my car. </p>
<p>Around May of 2007 I got a sales job at a call center, trying to (get this) get people to consolidate their student loans. Things were actually going well for the first six months or so, and I was seriously planning on moving out, but then I was forced to transfer from the sales department to the customer service department. I couldn't handle doing phone customer service and quit after another two months. </p>
<p>Around March of last year I got a temporary assignment working a job that I didn't hate and paid pretty well, and my boss loved me. Around May, though, I made an undiplomatic comment and was fired. This was the only time that I've ever been fired not because I hated the job, but because I made a stupid mistake. The day after I got fired, I totaled my car again.</p>
<p>Since then I've been sort of drifting, working one temporary assignment for a couple of months and not doing much else. </p>
<p>The following information isn't given as an excuse, but as an explanation for my sporadic lifestyle over the past few years. I have a mild form of Tourette's, and I was at one point diagnosed with moderate to severe OCD, though I've come to view that diagnosis with some skepticism. I've gone through several periods which I now believe were severe depressive episodes, and depression runs in my family: my mom can't function without medication, my sister has OCD and moderate depression, my dad is probably mildly depressed, and three out of my four grandparents are either currently depressed or have been depressed in the past. I have come to believe that I have an uncommon form of ADD, which makes me tend to have a very difficult time shifting my attention from one activity to the next. I don't say this lightly, as I know how the ADD diagnosis has been abused.</p>
<p>Once I start something, I can't stop--this can be a good thing, like when I wrote the (1,000 line) poker program in a few weeks, but the reality is that more often than not I put off important things, start doing something pleasant but relatively unproductive, and do it for about five to ten times longer than I should. When I was 14 I became obsessed with chess and went from roughly 1000 USCF to 2000 USCF in four years--no tutor, just an ungodly amount of playing online. (For reference, someone with a USCF rating of 1000 is either a bright beginner, a tournament player around the age of 11, or an adult tournament player who is very poor; someone with a USCF rating of 2000 is considered an "expert", and though the rating is far from world class, it's better than roughly 99% of the serious tournament players in the U.S.)</p>
<p>This is just an aside, but I took an online test the other day out of curiosity and according to it, I very likely have Asperger's Syndrome. I'm skeptical about the whole autism-spectrum labeling process, and it was just an online test, but it does tell you a bit about my social skills and attitudes.</p>
<p>I find it difficult to hold a full-time job because I can't handle customer service and I have problems with authority. In my experience with college I have found that I sometimes am a bit too anti-authority and get into some trouble, but in most cases I actually like and get along with my professors very well. When I was at University, I took Philosophy of Language and got a B in the course despite not attending about a third of the classes (there was no mandatory attendance policy). While I was discussing my midterm with my professor he told me that he wished I would come to class more often, because in his opinion I served as a "model of philosophical thought" for the other students.</p>
<p>Sorry for the long post. 3321 asked some legitimate questions and since he (or she) has been by far the most helpful person to post in this thread, I felt that I should give him (or her) the information he (or she) was seeking.</p>
<p>Also, thanks to sk8rmom for the very thoughtful and helpful post.</p>
<p>These were some things I found. I hope this starts you on the process for searching for options within the computer science field. It certainly sounds as if it is your passion, and you clearly have some skills already with programming. In addition, you might be able to eventually start a business, or work within a business that won't require some of the interpersonal business interactions that you have some reticence towards. </p>
<p>I hope the conversation with the cc goes well, and that you are able to take some courses there, so you can get back in the academic swing of things.</p>
<p>By the way, when I discussed whether or not you were a transfer student, I wasn't really saying you weren't..just saying I know that you are in a somewhat unique situation. You aren't truly old enough to be considered an adult returning to school after years away (like a mom returning to finish a BA or someone who is completing a BA after a decade or so with a business/company), but you really won't be able to pull of applying as a first time freshman.</p>
<p>Going back to your original question on deadlines, you might want to check again and email your top "full ride" choices. My D and many other seniors have been getting alot of "deadline extended" emails. There's a thread posted on this under the Admissions forum and includes Swarthmore, which was on your list. Also, with only 3 courses after HS, you may well be considered as any other incoming freshman. If you can't, see if they have an academic renewal policy (though your grades aren't really that bad for the univ courses). Academic renewal would wipe the slate clean for grades and you'd enter as a freshman.</p>