<p>That was just an example. There are all kinds of opportunity costs. Most doctors who choose to become faculty are giving up larger incomes in private practice which have their own issues for the bigger income.</p>
<p>I was discussing the incomes recently with someone and mentioned most primary care physicians working as faculty or in public hospital systems seem to make 150k and the response I got was what a waste of an extra 7 years doing an MD+residency when someone could become an engineer or programmer after undergrad and be making 100k within a couple of years.</p>
<p>"be making 100k within a couple of years. "
-OK, what a myth!!! Here is from the family of an engineer / Programmer both with the MBA. Also, most people /our friends by far majority are Engineers and some are Progmrammers with 20 - 35+ years of experience. I personally have worked in many industries and on many platforms and have very wide range of experience.<br>
-first, there is no job security at all. It does not matter how hard you work and what you achieve and implement…blah, blah. Bad economic situation will send you to unemployment. I am exactly on my job #9. some I left by myself, some I was let go, but the fact remains. I have over 30 years of experience and my H. (engineer) has over 40 years of experience. not even close to a 100k / year on a very respoinsible positions also that involve lots of international market and dealing with people all over globe on a daily basis.
In fact, I do not know a single IT/engineer (all with about the same level of experience) who are making any close to 100k and many (might be all) were out of jobs at some period of time and some retire earlier than they wish as it is not possible to obtain a position after 60, well, I would say close to impossible.
…however, grass is always greener on the other side.<br>
Our experiences actually led us to steer one of our kids to medicine (given the fact that she was always very interested in science / mostly Bio and was a top student)</p>
<p>…to add, for many many years, majority of my career I was not making what residents are making. I am talking about the same locality, here in my home town. So, to me, residency is pretty darn good job!</p>
<p>It depends on the job location, not have to be from the best schools. new CS BS can make $70-100k in silicon valley, but they have to pay high price for the house. EE BS can make around $60k in high tech semiconductor industry. After one more year study to get MS degree, can make around $80k for EE. CS always has big range. If you are lucky to get into Google/Oracle, then $100k is for BS. </p>
<p>My parent’s friends who work in TX Dallas or Austin or Oregon as engineers also have extremely good income, thinking about the house is much cheaper in those locations.</p>
<p>Miami is right though, the industry is very unpredictable. many my parent’s friends lost jobs in the down turn, some even could not find any after so many yrs.</p>
<p>That’s why my parents want me to do EE or CS. it’s a much simple route. I don’t have to beat myself to death for GPA, research, ECs etc whatever the medical school requires. After 4-5 yrs, can have a very decent income and life. With this big loan for medical school, and if just making $150k for primary doctor as texaspg mentioned, it really does not worth it from the money point of view. </p>
<p>But I like bio and like the feeling for helping people. sometimes it’s hard to decide everything just based on the money. I am still confusing about pursuing medical even I really want to. My parents support me either way even they want me to do CS.</p>
<p>I read other threads, people said the doctor has to buy mal practice insurance. If a doctor works for a big hospital, ex Stanford hospital, does he need to pay the insurance by himself or the hospital buy for him? How much does this insurance cost, ex for a primary doctor? I know that it’s extremely expensive (no idea how much though) for some specialists.</p>
<p>You guys do not understand the job security point at all, almost none on CC do, so do not feel too bad. You do not know what it is to pray every single day that you have a job tomorrow, do it every day decade after decade…
I imagine that some engineers / IT are making 100k in NYC / LA…other locations, but not the most localities in the USA and as you have mentioned coming from some very top schools. I am talking about MD in our home town, who have the same living expanses as our family. Most spouses of these MDs do nto work despite of their college education. This fact alone tells you about income level. While $150k represents probably the lowest compensation for an MD, $150k represents completely unattainable level for engineer / IT in our region in non-managerial position which still involves great responsibility and absolutely no job security. This latest fact pushes the spouses to also seek employment with or without college education. In fact, we did not even buy a house until after I found a job (very low paid, but a job). I have never met MD who think this way about his/her financial situation. They all live in nice houses and vase majority of spouses do not work because there is no issue with job secority.
Again, I understand that grass is always greener on the other side, so, I am not looking to convince you one way or another at all. I love my job and feel lucky that I have found what I love.
Comparing many families (D. went to the most expansive private HS with many MD families) and knowing closely many in medicine, engineering, IT, there is absolutely no comparison in our area.</p>
<p>If a physician is a direct-employ employee of a hospital, then usually it’s the hospital that pays malpractice. </p>
<p>However, just because a physician works at or for a hospital doesn’t mean she’s a employee of the hospital. It could mean she works for a physicians’s group that has contracted with the hospital to provide services. In that case, the physicians group (and since the physician is a partner in the group, the physician) pay the malpractice.</p>
<p>In large managed care groups (like Kaiser in CA), the physician is a salaried employee and one of the employee benefits is paid malpractice insurance.</p>
<p>Costs for malpractice insurance are all over the place because it depends on the specialty and the local tort laws of the state where a physician practices. I’ve seen quotes for medical mal insurance from several hundreds of thousands per year to a few ten thousands per year.</p>
<p>Among primary care providers, OB/GYN have higher rates for malpractice insurance than do other primary care specialties.</p>
<p>I was hearing horror stories a few years ago. A Nevada OB/GYN was done with the quota of deliveries allowed by the insurance and so she was going to another state for the rest of the year, in June.</p>
<p>Miami - Both my wife I have been engineers and have worked in IT for the past 20 years. I agree that as oldtimers, we worry a lot about job security and also stick around in one job without worrying about growth.</p>
<p>It is not to say there is no money to be made by the younger bunch.</p>
I was talking to a disgruntled employee that we hired 5 years ago, through campus recruitment out of UC Berkeley. He was looking to move into another department within the firm and sought my counsel. When we hired him, he was a candidate for MSCS, which I don’t think he quite finished. His total comp for last year was 160K+. Since one of his complaints in his current position is comp, I tried to give him some perspective by comparing his comp with that of an average doctor. I got the feeling that he was not exactly thrilled. :D</p>
<p>I am really not too much into compensation at all. I want to have a job tomorrow. I will not find a job if I loose my current one, not any more and neither will my H. We have to hold on to what we have. No $100k, not close, but we live comfortably and hoping that D. will not have loans, We are not up to moving somewhere either, but our city is a very cheap place to live and None of the big city locations with huge traffic are attractive to me at all. There are NO non-management engioneers / IT who are anywhere close to $160k, most are happy with half of it (if they have it), very many are happy with the 1/3. In addition nobody is looking for Elite college graduates either. Most companies, including huge international like mine hire locally from local colleges. However, most are looking for experience, getting a job out of college is extremely hard, one needs to be lucky. No such case with docs. No MD ever talks about job security, almost all are single earner families, live in the best houses, send kids to private schools. Again about 80% of local MDs graduated from the local Med. School. I live in area that represent the vast majority of the USA. Coasts do not represent the average compensation level / average cost of living, they are very much skewed upwards.</p>
<p>Quote: Originally Posted by IWBB:
'I took the MCAT in the summer after junior year since I applied right after graduating the following year. '</p>
<p>from what I read, many students take MCAT in spring, junior year before May, apply medical school in June, have interviews in Fall of Senior year. Get admission letter in Spring time of Senior year? </p>
<p>IWBB: since you took MCAT in the summer after junior year, in timing wise, would it be the same if you took it in Spring, senior year before May? I just want to make sure I understand all the timing. </p>
<p>You applied in June, right after your senior year, graduation of college. Because you already applied in June, would the gap year which happened after June help you in the applications then? Maybe, because you had interviews, the school would ask you what you were doing etc?</p>
<p>Originally I thought you had gap year, then you applied at the end of gap year. so You could state what research or work you did in the gap year to help the applications. Then had to wait another year for admission though.</p>
<p>Even with a gap year only, as long as the applicants could get the interview invite, it is likely that the interviewer may still ask the applicants about their research. There is no comparison in the quality and quantity of the research that an applicant does on a full time basis because there is no distraction of school work, so the adcoms could be more interested in asking about this research experience.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP, I hope DS would consider living in a lower cost area eventually.</p>
<p>I took the MCAT in august 2008.
I graduated in May 2009.
I submitted by AMCAS in June 2009.
I started my program in summer 2010.</p>
<p>Only one year elapsed between graduating and starting. For MD/PhD interviews, I spent the bulk talking about my current research more so than the research I did during senior year (which was what I talked about on the application). As an MD/PhD applicant, applying with just two summers of research wasn’t enough. Add in applying in september and my application was DOA. For me, the boost from the extra year was mainly the ability to spend summer 2008 studying for the MCAT and not submitting apps extremely late in the cycle as well as giving myself another year to do research and an honors thesis my senior year.</p>
<p>While I wasn’t thinking about the following in deciding to do a gap year, the gap year was great because I didn’t have to balance school and interviews and also when you’ve been in school for 16 straight years, a one year break is really good before going for 7-9 more.</p>
<p>I just wonder if any doctor does not like his job. I know many people said they do not like their jobs in engineering, pharmacy, even bio research with PhD degree.</p>
<p>My uncle’s friend used to be a Pulmonary doctor in a big hospital. After years working there, he said every day he saw elder people, drug addicts etc. He was very tired of those daily works. ‘boring, routine’ were his words. He quit the job, went to under development country to help people for some time. A few year ago, he became a professor and doctor in a top private university/hospital. Now he is very happy with his research with all new challenges everyday.</p>
<p>I heard that family doctor spends 80% of the time doing physical check ups, cold, flu. Sounds like really not much exciting there after so many years studying and hard working. Saying this might offend some doctors or docto-to-bes. Maybe that’s why many people want to be specialists, not family doctors (of course money is another factor)? I just want to see if unhappiness with the job also happens in medicine fields like other fields.</p>
<p>I guess different people has different goal - maybe a stable job, maybe wants challenge everyday, maybe just helping people is good enough …</p>
</p>