<p>If anybody has done this undergrad program, preferably as an IR/performance major, can you tell me the pros and cons of it. Also is it EXTREMELY competitive. I don't know much about NEC except for the great staff. Aso are the staff members generally there, or are they routinely not at the school? If you could give me an approx. acceptance rate figure, it would be much appreciated.</p>
<p>A previous thread is here. <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/298779-tufts-nec.html?highlight=Tufts%2FNEC%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/298779-tufts-nec.html?highlight=Tufts%2FNEC</a></p>
<p>If you use search, and type Tufts/NEC, you'll also pull up numerous threads with specific posts. There are also numerous past posts on NEC.</p>
<p>In your first thread (Music Performance/International Relations Major), you'll see some info on Tufts/NEC. My son just started the program this week. He too is interested in politics, though his Tufts major is likely to be Environmental Studies. Both Tufts and NEC are VERY competitive admits (with NEC being the tougher of the two). Admission into the double degree program even more so. As I mentioned in the earlier thread, Tufts/NEC typically accepts between 10 - 15 students per year. My son is the only DD student this year, the year ahead of him has just 4 or 5. You get the idea. Definitely not something to count on but something to reach for.</p>
<p>Acceptance rate varies somewhat by program at NEC. I believe it was about 20% for bass when my daughter auditioned a few years back. I don't know what it is for horn either then or now.</p>
<p>The College Board quotes a 28% admission rate for Tufts, with average SAT's in the 2100 range and 80% of students in the top tenth of their high school class. Be aware that there is something called "Tufts Syndrome" - they reportedly like to reject students with excellent credentials who also apply to places like Harvard, Yale, Princeton and MIT because it is said they do not like being used as a safety. If you are applying to a school that is higher up the USNWR ratings than Tufts, you may wish to leave that information off of the Tufts application.</p>
<p>As rlmcmillan points out, the real problem is getting into the double degree program, which only takes a handful (or fewer) students per year.</p>
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<p>As far as NEC goes - it depends on your instrument. NEC is a notoriously difficult violin school, at least for a few studios, where entrance to that those teachers' studios are hard without having an 'inside leg-up; i.e. prior contact/consultation with that teacher. Violinists Don Weilerstein, Miriam Fried; violists Kim Kaskashian, Martha Katz, and cellists Paul Katz & Lawrence Lesser are each superstar teachers as well as performers in their fields. For voice, NEC is not particularly any more competitive than the vocal departments at similar comparable institutions.</p>
<p>NEC is sort of the musical 'hub' of the Boston/New England region. Nearly half of the Boston Symphony (which btw, is quite possibly the best endowed orchestra on the continent) is comprised of NEC faculty and alumni. That means this is not a school where the teachers generally commute from other places to come teach lessons. Therefore, most of the teachers NEC does boast on their published faculty list do indeed have regular day-to-day presence at the institution. However one exception to this that I know of, is the clarinetist Richard Stoltzman. He has a prolific free-lance solo'ing career, and as such I don't think he actually has any full time students despite being listed on the faculty roster.</p>
<p>My daughter considered this program a few years ago and got into NEC but waitlisted at Tufts. I believe she would have gotten in off the waitlist but she was no longer interested in the programs and didn't think NEC was the right place for her as a vocalist. We were told that few students are admitted (as has been pointed out) but also that few actually stick with it. It's a tough haul and not particularly convenient since you have to travel back and forth between the two schools. I'll be interested to hear from rimcmillan how it goes for his son.</p>
<p>Just seeing how intense the atmosphere at NEC is through my freshman son makes me wonder how anyone can possibly do a double degree with any kind of performance as one half of the double. But, one of the orientation speakers was the father of a Harvard/NEC double degree graduate, so obviously it can be done. If you are that kind of driven achiever, it must be truly exciting to be part of both worlds, but I cannot begin to fathom actually being 100% involved in both schools. If you can do that, you can do anything!</p>
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<p>Jazzzmomm, I think what makes most of these double degree programs possible at all, is not having the attendance at the two schools at the same time. The student would spend one year at one school (A), then two years at the other (B), then come back for two more semesters at school A, then finish off her time with four semesters at school B, or something like that. Usually, the students never have to attend classes and do work for both institutions in the same semester. Of course, that doesn't mean that while the student is at the academic school, (s)he shouldn't be worrying about practicing and stuff.</p>
<p>"Be aware that there is something called "Tufts Syndrome" - they reportedly like to reject students with excellent credentials who also apply to places like Harvard, Yale, Princeton and MIT because it is said they do not like being used as a safety. If you are applying to a school that is higher up the USNWR ratings than Tufts, you may wish to leave that information off of the Tufts application."</p>
<p>There is a Tufts admissions officer who often posts on CC who argues (to me, persuasively) that this isn't the case, at least at Tufts.</p>
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<p>My son has a good friend in the Harvard/NEC program, and he was definitely back and forth between both campuses, even as a freshman. His lessons and ensembles were at NEC (the ones at Harvard were too disappointing!) and all of his academic classwork was at Harvard. I <em>think</em> that is true for Tufts as well, just that for the fifth year, they are only at NEC, since the classwork at Harvard or Tufts would be finished after four.</p>
<p>It is amazingly daunting, and this is why it is for such a special few. We also know kids who were accepted to both Harvard and NEC, but not to the double program---that's how daunting it really is (I think if one gains admittance to Tufts and NEC the double program is more automatic, but I could be wrong).</p>
<p>Ah okay, thanks for correcting me. I forgot about them having to take lessons as well. That makes sense. But he still didn't have any actual coursework in the same semesters between the two schools, did he?</p>
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<p>Hunt, that is why I used the words "reportedly," "it is said," and "you may wish" in that paragraph. I realize that this is not an official policy and may not even be a de facto policy at Tufts, but so many people have reported this phenomenon that it has acquired its own name. That does not necessarily make it true and it may just be sour grapes on the part of those reporting that this happens, but I still think it is a possibility worth considering.</p>
<p>The Tufts/NEC DD program also has students taking classes at both institutions throughout the 5 years, though the the relative mix shifts from more at Tufts in the first year or two to more (or all) at NEC for the last year or two.</p>
<p>While my son's schedule is not yet set, it appears that his first semester will include 3 classes at NEC (ensemble, composition studio & solfege) and four courses at Tufts. He also hopes to take lessons with a member of the violin faculty @ NEC. He's told that this load is fairly typical for DD students.</p>
<p>So far, the travel logistics don't seem too daunting. He's generally used the shuttle but has on a couple of occasions taken the T. </p>
<p>I've asked Dan (Tufts admissions officer and CC poster) to join us over here in the hopes that he can provide some accurate information about the number of students who apply to the Tufts/NEC DD program, the number of students admitted, the yield, and the number of students who successfully complete the program in five years. Such information will, I think, help prospective DD students form an accurate appraisal of how the Tufts/NEC program compares to other DD programs.</p>
<p>While the Tufts/NEC program is certainly not for the faint of heart, I do wonder if it really is significantly harder to gain admittance and/or complete than other comparable programs. The perception here seems to be that it is but it would be nice to have some hard data to from which to draw conclusions along the lines of the Oberlin data that BassDad has so kindly provided.</p>
<p>In the meantime I'm happy to pass along any information and impressions my son shares.</p>
<p>Rebecca</p>
<p>It's true, navigating a conservatory/liberal arts dual-degree program is demanding and not for the feint of heart. And while the Tufts/NEC program is rigorous, it is not enormously difficult to finish if you are prepared for the intensity that a conservatory experience requires. But there are challenges, such as developing two different sets of study skills. One DD student told me, "Conservatory academics have actually been more challenging for me than those at Tufts have been. While I (for the most part) know how to study academically, studying for classes at NEC is a skill I'm still honing." Those challenges, however, are not unique to the Tufts/NEC program, and the need to be able to balance two very different workloads and jump back and forth between two different mindsets is a key skill in successfully navigating any DD program. </p>
<p>It is, of course, selective to get into Tufts and it is, of course, selective to get into the NEC, but in the last five years we have admitted every student who has been accepted by both institutions into the 5 year program. The number of students admitted is usually more than a dozen, but students who are so compelling musically and academically usually have extremely robust options and frequently decide as their senior year progresses that they are no longer interested in one side of the coin or the other when decision time comes in April. </p>
<p>I was fortunate this past year to sit down with a third year students in the program and pick her brain for a long time about the program, and Katharine provided me with an EXTREMELY comprehensive account of the experience. What she wrote is honest about the challenges and the benefits of the program, and I would encourage anyone considering the Tufts/NEC program, or any other conservatory DD program, to get in touch with me and I will pass on Katharine's perspective to you. (I can be reached at <a href="mailto:Daniel.Grayson@tufts.edu">Daniel.Grayson@tufts.edu</a>)</p>
<p>Dan,</p>
<p>Thanks so much for weighing in with this information. I suspect it will be useful to those considering the Tufts/NEC dual degree and perhaps even encouraging to well qualified applicants. Thanks for taking the time to post.</p>
<p>Rebecca</p>
<p>while the Tufts/SMFA program won’t drive you insane (merely busy), the Tufts/NEC is not for the faint hearted.</p>
<p>Regarding admissions, both are completely separate. I got Tufts early decision but had to wait for NEC. And the overall acceptance rate really doesn’t tell you anything. The school is small enough that you are really applying to work with specific professors in many cases, and so of course, as with any fine arts school, acceptance is entirely subjective. At the very least, you’ll know after your audition, and keep in mind that a lot of students are recruited. So if you’re, say, an bassoonist applying out of nowhere, it’s a lot more difficult.</p>
<p>Another bit of advice. When you audition, they will know if you’re applying as a dual degree candidate, but in my audition, when they asked and I told them I had already been accepted at Tufts, they didn’t seem to like it much. Conservatories are very, very focused schools, and it seemed to hurt my audition when the discussion moved towards what I planned to do at Tufts (biology/premed).</p>
<p>Because if you choose, say, engineering at Tufts, and a solo instrument major at NEC, you’ll very likely end up dropping one by the second year. No matter how much time you spend at either school in class, if you are a musician, the limiting factor is your practice time. For violin and piano, where you need to put in ten solid hours a day, every day, for all five years regardless of which campus you are “based” at, passing classes at either school becomes very difficult.</p>
<p>Vocalists tend not to drop (as I observed while I was there) - you can’t practice more than a couple hours a day or you’ll damage your vocal chords. A fellow freshman who also lived in my dorm at Tufts was a vocal major and got a lot of his memorization and other practice work done while on the shuttle! (definitely not fair 
That leaves plenty of time for your other classes. I couldn’t keep up with my piano work (4-6 hours a day practice will have everyone else leaving you in the dust), so I switched into contemporary improvisation and took a lot of jazz classes, and ended up with just my Tufts degree and couldn’t finish the B.M.</p>
<p>The commute is easier from Harvard, but the Harvard/NEC program didn’t exist when I applied. Of the various dual degree programs, Tufts/NEC was the most balanced, I’d also include Oberlin as well. Eastman is excellent, but U Rochester isn’t even close to Tufts or Harvard.</p>
<p>Consider what you want to accomplish as an undergrad at Tufts or Harvard, and then your intended major at NEC, and see if they balance. A lot of combinations don’t. If music is your main focus and you just want to also have a B.A., I might recommend Eastman/U Rochester, if you can get into Eastman. U Rochester isn’t a bad school per se, it’s just not as intense as Tufts or Harvard.</p>
<p>There is another option as well. If you’re a very serious instrumentalist, you may not require a full B.M. Yo-Yo Ma just went to Harvard, but obviously still took studio lessons. At Tufts, taking your studio class (private lessons in lay terms) and passing your jury can be done without even applying to NEC as a degree student - you simply cross-register, and then all you need is to be accepted by the NEC professor of your choice.</p>
<p>When I was applying, five-year programs seemed perfect. But in retrospect, 95% of it can be accomplished by just picking one school, then cross-registering for all the cool classes you want to take at another school. For academic classes, you wouldn’t even need to apply - ANY Tufts student can enroll in any NEC class, provided you fulfill either the prerequisites, or get the permission of the professor. I had NO jazz background whatsoever, but it took about five minutes to talk my way into the jazz theory classes.</p>
<p>And for anyone studying at NEC - take the Lydian Chromatic Concept, and free your mind.</p>
<p>Thanks for such an informative post, KismetCaptain. If you could, could you speculate about how tough it is to do a jazz studies B.M. at NEC and, say, a history degree at Tufts, in the five-year program? Or would this be something you’d recommend as you said, by cross-registering at NEC but being based at Tufts?</p>
<p>2ComingUp, this post is a year old, and you probably came across it as a link in a current active thread.</p>
<p>KismetCaptain was not a frequent poster, and may or maoy not still lurk. You may want to
try using cc’s pm or email feature to contact them directly.</p>
<p>I’m not KismetCaptain, but I can tell you that many of the current double-degree-ers at Tufts/NEC are majoring in jazz studies or contemporary improvisation at NEC and history or a social science at Tufts. It’s very doable so long as you recognize that you will lose a certain amount of time to the commute between schools. So, while not as easy as at Oberlin or Lawrence where the two campuses are adjacent, it’s probably comparable to U Rochester/Eastman or JHU/Peabody. </p>
<p>There is plenty of institutional support for the double degree at both ends (a bit more at Tufts, perhaps). The faculty advisor for both double degree programs (SMFA & NEC) is a dean at Tufts, there are peer mentoring programs at both schools and the DDers are very supportive of one another. They form chamber groups, play each other’s music, play a couple of concerts a year at Tufts (in addition to whatever concerts they are playing at NEC), dine together once or twice each semester and in some cases hang out together. </p>
<p>DS served as an orientation leader at Tufts and a Peer advisor at NEC this year. He has interacted A LOT with the five students who started the program this year. He escorted them back and forth between the two schools throughout the first week, making sure they made all their auditions, departmental meetings and theory/solfege tests. He also helped them work out their schedules and offered guidance about what was possible vs. what was overly ambitious. He has spent a good bit of time with them throughout the first semester and will, I’m sure, continue throughout the second semester as well.</p>
<p>We attended a Double Degree concert at Tufts in November. I can tell you that the 12 - 15 students who played were a very impressive bunch encompassing a variety of instruments and styles (classical voice, jazz voice, composition, chamber music, classical violin, viola, and cello, jazz saxophone, piano, jazz percussion, contemporary improvisation etc.) The turnout was great and included Tufts students, faculty, families and quite a few NEC students who seem to take great interest in following the activities of the DDers. In addition to being outstanding musicians, the vast majority of DDers seem like interesting and very nice kids. They are into everything and very supportive of one another.</p>
<p>Despite the commute and the additional demands of two degrees, the program works very well for the right kind of student, one who is passionate about music, academically strong/well-prepared, self-disciplined and well-organized. If the student is tentative about either music or academics or struggles with self-discipline or procrastination, I suspect the DD program would quickly become overwhelming. </p>
<p>I think there is a perception here on CC that the Tufts/NEC program is very difficult to manage or has a high rate of attrition. Our experience so far suggests otherwise. DS has yet to meet or hear about anyone who has left the program or given up one degree or the other. He has come across quite a few kids who finish the program in 4 or 4.5 years and still manage to squeeze in a semester of study abroad. </p>
<p>While such an ambitious program is certainly not for everyone, it is workable and indeed perfect for some.</p>
<p>I should have included Bard with Oberlin & Lawrence, among the schools where double degrees are a bit easier given the proximity of the academic & music campuses. Mea culpa.</p>